Westlands gets Merlin CSP contract

[Ian Corrigible]

Good news. An opportunity to upgrade from 286 processors to 486 chips... :E But what happens to the other 12...?

AgustaWestland awarded major contract under MCSP programme
AgustaWestland 1/12

AgustaWestland is pleased to announce it has been awarded a major contract for the upgrade of 30 EH101 Merlin HM Mk1 helicopters for the UK Ministry of Defence under the Merlin Capability Sustainment Plus (MCSP) programme, with an option for a further eight.

Working in partnership with the MCSP Prime Contractor Lockheed Martin, the contract, worth approximately £400 million to AgustaWestland, will ensure that the Royal Navy’s EH101 Merlin HM Mk1 retains its position as the world’s most capable maritime patrol helicopter.

The focus of the programme is to enable cost-effective management of future obsolescence of the current aircraft’s equipment and systems, and to introduce an Open Systems Architecture (OSA) into the helicopter. The OSA design also enables easy and rapid adaption to future changing requirements, thereby allowing the EH101 Merlin HM Mk1 capability to be sustained until its planned out of service date in the 2030s. This spend-to-save approach is expected to save over £500 million in through life support costs for the Royal Navy’s EH101 Merlin HM Mk1 fleet.

The MCSP programme will also see AgustaWestland introduce its Helicopter Electro Actuation Technology (HEAT) onto the EH101 Merlin HM Mk1. HEAT introduces a state of the art, third generation fly by wire system that utilises electrical actuators in place of the existing hydraulic units, to provide the control inputs to the helicopter’s rotor systems. This technology reduces pilot workload, cost of ownership, maintenance and weight while giving improved survivability, safety, aircraft handling and agility.

AgustaWestland will be responsible for designing, procuring and integrating the new avionics suite, which will include new cockpit primary flight displays incorporating touch screen technology to deliver increased crew efficiency. AgustaWestland is also responsible for designing and integrating an updated communication and navigation system, and all aspects of air vehicle integration.

The Merlin HM Mk1 fleet will be progressively upgraded from 2010 and will see the updated and improved aircraft come into service from 2013. The work to upgrade the aircraft will take place at AgustaWestland’s Yeovil facility in the UK.

I/C

[southside]

That is good news. At last there is a clear and progressive future for the aircraft. Well done Westlands.

[Navaleye]

But will it have any weapons? At the moment its just a very expensive target.

[charliegolf]

Westland to fix UK PLC's Helicopters.

Wow, who'd have seen that one coming?

CG

[Daede1]

Good that we got the contract - usually the government gives em to the french....

[Toxteth O'Grady]

So if WHL get £400m where's the other 400 and odd million pounds going? Is that how much we're paying Lockheed to f**k it up??

:cool:

TOG

[Daede1]

No, that is to pay Lockheed for their expertise and assistance on the contract, and also to further integrate our arms industry with the wider arms industry on a global scale.

In other words, its to keep the yanks sweet methinks.

[dangermouse]

Here we go again

the Merlin was designed to meet a contract issued by the user, it does that.

This doesn't 'fix' anything, it's called technological progress and getting that into service for everyones benefit.

As for UK PLC, it's a British aircraft, are we suggesting that upgrading a product should be given to a different source than the Design authority?

Just be glad the best RN helo will be getting even better

DM

[MrBernoulli]

Sorry dangermouse, got to disagree with you. There won't be anything like £400 million worth of whatever in this contract. Little more than a political sop to keep Westlands open

[Navaleye]

But will have have any useful weapons other than Stingray?

[baggur]

Totally agree with Dangermouse - it is a decent helo. Pity it's an absolutely useless weapon platform delivering a capability we don't need and can't afford. Still, it is a nice looking helo - and that is obviously woth spending nearly ANOTHER billion or so on.

[Bigtop]

Glad you like the look of it Baggur cos I would wager my FRI that 2008 Rogets Thesaurus will read:

Merlin - MASC
SCMR
SABR

I wonder about other entries - what do you reckon:

CVF - no entry found!

[southside]

Please behave. The Merlin is a crock of pooh. It cost far. far too much and for some reason we seem to be laying them up in the hangar. It has no ASM capibility, No IR detection cap and is little use in surface warefare. Its fantastic at finding submarines though...Hmmm.
This white eleophant has gone on for far too long with people defending it in order to keep their jobs. Enough fellas. Lets speak the truth for once.

[Triple Matched TQ]

OK - I'll bite.

Spoken like a true unknowledgeable gentleman Southside, (can I just say you obviously have no ideal of the capability of the a/c and what the people who employ it think);)

[southside]

Go on then. I'm listening. Where is the capibility? Why does it not have any weapons? What sort of military helicopter doesn't have weapons? Why doesn't it go to sea? Why are they locked up in the hangar? As a tax payer im concerned as to why we paid 45 million quid each for these beasts and then we go and whack another 400 million on them....which makes about 54 million quid each????



Why?

[Triple Matched TQ]

Stby - I'll get my handbag - who bit?

[VitaminGee]

I wonder about other entries - what do you reckon:
MOD - Cash cow for WHL

the Merlin was designed to meet a contract issued by the user, it does that.


WRT being on time, on budget and maintenance to flying hour ratio - not by a long chalk and with the exception of T23, it's a pain in the @rse to take to sea. Granted, though, as an ASW mission system - first class!:rolleyes:

[WE Branch Fanatic]

When will we get an ASM on our Merlins, as the Italians already have?

But isn't Marlin largely used as an ISTAR asset, leaving surface attack to the Lynx?

See Tales from 820 NAS (http://navynews.co.uk/articles/2006/0601/0006011901.asp).

[southside]

Exactly - So we have paid close to £55 million big ones and what have we got....? an airborne radar? Good. Good job we bought that cos were short of aircraft with radars in the AF's. Thank goodness for the Merlin. What would we have done without it...??

But hang on. Isn't the Merlin a Naval aircraft? An aircraft you would expect to find on ships? So why are they blocking the hangar doors at CU then? Why buy 44 and then upgrade 30. What are we doing with the remainder? So that will be £44 mill x 14 = £61,000,000 down the swanny. Shame on the lot of you.

[Triple Matched TQ]

Yes Merlin does have a radar - I see you forgot to mention all the other tactical input it brings to the battle - (which is considerably more than current Naval Aircraft with radars!)(convenient that you forgot that huh?)
As you have been at Cu standing by hangar doors - Maybe if you were aware of the bigger picture you would know why they are not at sea. How many Merlin capable platforms are at sea at the moment ? (maybe, just maybe its not Merlins fault)
And as for the upgrade of 30 - You may have noticed that a few of them have crashed and its very difficult to put them back together after that!
When you are standing by the hangar doors next maybe a chat to some of the people who use them (shocking advise I know) rather than just slag off the advance of technology.
Yes I know we all fear change, but , can I suggest you go on a POAC course and you will learn a lot more - Good Luck in the future!

[Duncan Bucket]

TMT,
Believe me its not worth the effort. Many in the Lynx community think that Merlin/CSP is stealing their money and will attempt to discredit it whenever they can. Its like a broken record. Hopefully southside will back at sea soon, a place he mentions a lot but never seems to be there (unfortunately), and once again the Fleet will have their mail:E
Oh, and money aside for a minute, how does a Capability SUSTAINMENT programme involve adding an ASM? Surely that would be a Capability IMPROVEMENT?

[southside]

Good point there fella. So where are the weapons? And as far as crashes...How many have crashed? We bought 44....were sustaining 30...so 14 have crashed...?

Bloomin 'eck. Thats nearly 30% of them. So if we haven't crashed 14...where \are they? why are they not being upgraded?

Nope. Im sorry mate. In order for you to convince me that this white elephant os worth spending another penny on it the aircraft will have to stop being supported by the Lynx.

PS. I am at sea at the moment. Drifting around about 15 miles E of Eddy.

[tucumseh]

The original post does say “30, with an option for a further 8”. This is MoD speak for (pick any two);

a. We know we need 38 but can only afford 30
b. Further cutbacks are anticipated so don’t expect the option to be taken up
c. We can’t find the other 8, as we are no longer obligated to know how many assets we have, or where
d. We no longer have the ships to deploy on
e. Oppo no longer has the subs to detect

I question “sustaining” a capability which is the manifestation of an early 80s concept/doctrine/ requirement. The inference is that the original Naval Staff Requirement and Use Study still holds good, but some old kit just needs updating because it has become unsupportable.

[Jackonicko]

Wasn't Merlin CSP at one time to have included the addition of a robust ASV capability (including a missile), to allow it to be considered as a SCMR option?

Is such a capability no longer to be provided?

Is Merlin CSP really just going to be a more capable and more modern ASW aircraft?

Really?

And is the present fleet 38 aircraft, or more than that?

[Jackonicko]

Are the extra aircraft (those not to be converted) earmarked for MASC, or will those aircraft be modified from CSP airframes?

[sprucemoose]

What-ho, Jack-o,

The answer I got from the IPTL was that the eight options and the MASC requirement are merely coincidental.

But it's an interesting coincidence, isn't it?

[Jackonicko]

It is indeed, Sprucey.

Perhaps we'll discuss it further over a 'Sling?

Jacko

[fagin's goat]

Any tax payer defending the huge further cost of Merlin needs a visit to a doctor. Bang for buck? Crazy money for a good helicopter but add up the huge infrastructure and those shining various parts of their anatomy and it adds up to a sorry story.
No missile, no proper eo device, ancient computers, crap tail rotor......but made by Westland...so that's OK then?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

No missile: Valid point, but the Italians have got one, so why haven't we? I got told by someone from 824 NAS was that it was being talked about, but due to costs.........that was in March 2004 btw.
No EO: Then what about the Wescam thing.......see this (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/findPage.do?dsp=fec&ci=16038&rsbci=0&fti=111&ti=0&sc=400).

Can't respond to your other points!!

Jacko, MASC has been mentioned elsewhere on PPRuNe, and also other places. See this very informative page (http://navy-matters.beedall.com/masc.htm).

Also this page about Merlin (http://www.agustawestland.com/products01_02.asp?id_appl=72&id_product=7) lists Anti Ship Missiles if you click on Armament.

Oddly, it also lists Airborne Mine Counter Measures as a possible role.........as if the MOD is going to pay for that.

[sprucemoose]

WEBF - the Merlin with the Wescam pod only has that because Lockheed have loaned it to the navy at company expense. They hoped it would get an EO/IR pod in as part of CSP, but it isn't currently included.

The Italians are currently integrating the Marte Mk2S anti-ship missile, but it's not operational yet.

Jacko: I'm afraid you'll have to have that sling without me - I'm staying home to do new dad stuff. :D

[Biggus]

Surely the Merlin situation is all the result of history. As I understand it the Merlin was designed in the days of the cold war. At that time the RN was committed to providing ASW capability in support of the American strike fleet as part of the NATO WWIII scenario. The CVS were full of ASW Sea Kings with only a nominal SHAR package (sorry WEBF) to 'hack' trailing Bears.

The RN invested almost totally in the future of ASW, by investing in towed array frigates, the Type 23s, with a very capable ASW helo on the back, the Merlin, to fix and destroy the subs located by the towed array. The Merlin was therefore designed almost entirely with ASW in mind, with ASuW as a very secondary role. Unfortunately the project ran very late, and by the time it arrived, ASW was not as prominent a task for the RN as it had been.

As for the number of Merlins being up graded, well how many Merlin platforms are there left, compared to when it was procured. I'm sure any recent copy of Janes will provide the answer. WEBF goes on about selling off Type 23s early, one is only 8 years old I believe, but he is right and you must realise that part of the 'hidden' associated costs of paying off such ships early is effectively the loss (in terms of it not being needed) of a £40+ million pound helo.

Feel free to disagree anyone, but hopefully in a more reasoned way than a Lynx vs Merlin p*ssing contest!

[southside]

so if we are selling the ships off to Chile...can we include a Merlin in with that package?


Oddly, it also lists Airborne Mine Counter Measures as a possible role.........as if the MOD is going to pay for thatbesides, they wouldn't want to pinch that role from the Lynx

[comedyjock]

As always with Merlin it ends up in a p**sing contest against Lynx. They are 2 very different aircraft. As an airborne sensor the Merlin can't be beat (stand fast ASAC AEW) with the cost to run and crew involved. The Lynx is limited by its engines in hot weather (predominately where they are operating) however as a rapid reaction, easily deployable weapon asset it also can't be beat.
Put the 2 aircraft together in operations and I believe you have a very capable combination able to deal with most threats.

What you need is for IPT's to start talking o the Operators and buy useful kit that doe not take an age to procure. Whatever your opinion on SCMR is, I believe it is not the best aircraft we could spend the money on but will give the Navy a credible ASuW force. For what its worth NH-90 is proven and available to buy now.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Southside, how exactly does the Lynx do AMCM?

[NR DROOP]

WEBF:confused: , AMCM - Its not rocket science. I did it in the mighty Sea King Mk5 in GW 1 !

[southside]

BEADWINDOW from WEBF.......

[WE Branch Fanatic]

The point is, the USN has MCM dedicated helicopters. We do not.

[southside]

What you need is for IPT's to start talking o the Operators and buy useful kit that doe not take an age to procure. Whatever your opinion on SCMR is, I believe it is not the best aircraft we could spend the money on but will give the Navy a credible ASuW force. For what its worth NH-90 is proven and available to buy now.and using the phrase of the magician....bollox..

NH90 is an unproven crock of poo. It is cumbersome, slow, underpowered and above all it is foreign.

F.Lynx will stun the world with its capibility, its speed, agiliity and its aggressive warfighting capibility. But above all, its British.

[southside]

The point is, the USN has MCM dedicated helicopters. We do not.The point is..the USN waste their money on an aircarft with a single role whilst the Senior service use their assets wisely (apart from that crock of poo called a Merlin) and pool their capibilities. Our aircraft have many roles and are flown by professional, dedicated and extremely good aviators. Theirs are not.

[WE Branch Fanatic]

Southside

You are an idiot. ENDEX.

[southside]

Tee hee.....at last you realise....for gawds sake mate its YOU..... look...recognise, contain, diagnose
BUt in all seriousness...Ive worked extensively with the guys at Pax River and in particular during exercises in the Skag and N Sea and they are superb at chasing mines BUT.....ask 'em to search for a missing fisherman, interogate the Master of that passing merchant ship, collect Opintel of that suspect fast patrol boat and they look at you very strangely. Whereas, ask a Brit to do that as WELL as chasing mines...and he'll find your Mk 56 for ya.



BUt, we digress....... Lets maintain this thread on slating the EH101 (apparently there are now 101 of them...Duuuhhhh)

[DaveyBoy]

What sort of ASMs are people advocating should be fitted to the Merlin, and why? The RN is no longer in the game of pitched sea battles between opposing fleets, as indicated for example by the demise of Sea Eagle on WEBFs beloved SHAR.

To attack a medium sized, or larger, warship with a point defence system you need to lauch a salvo of ASMs larger than the payload that could be carried by a single Merlin. In current scenarios you are much more likely to be dealing with a small craft, FPB down to speedboat size. A Sea Skua type missile is no doubt adequate for that, and against speedboat type targets cannons/MGs would probably be better, but is the Merlin too expensive an asset to risk in this role? A role curently filled by the Lynx.

So are you advocating fitting ASMs to the Merlin just because you can - or is there actually a role for it to fulfil when so armed? Or should Merlin/Lynx operate in pairs, one to locate, the other to ident and attack if desired? Heaven forbid that the Lynx and Merlin worlds should actually co-operate together!!

[Navaleye]

To attack a medium sized, or larger, warship with a point defence system you need to lauch a salvo of ASMs larger than the payload that could be carried by a single Merlin. In current scenarios you are much more likely to be dealing with a small craft, FPB down to speedboat size. A Sea Skua type missile is no doubt adequate for that, and against speedboat type targets cannons/MGs would probably be better, but is the Merlin too expensive an asset to risk in this role? A role curently filled by the Lynx.

A salvo of 4 ASMs would have fair chance of defeating a single gun based CIWS. The Lynx can carry 4 Sea Skuas (but it can't go very far with them) so the Merlin should be able to do at least the same. My preference would be for a smaller active type such as Penguin which have programmable attack profiles which cause the most problem to any defensive system. Sea Skua doesn't really have enough range or wallop for the job, good though it is.

During Op Corporate if an RN Surface Action Group had encountered the Belgrano group, the plan was to use the Lynx / Sea Skua combination to disable the escorting destroyers and for the Lynx to provide OTH targetting for the SAG to unleash up to 12 Exocets against Belgrano. The Lynx could the clean up what ever was left. A bit togher to do with the Merlin eh?

[ZH844]

Did somebody say that the NH90 was proven? I think not my good man, not even sure if any have been delivered as yet!

Hey Southside - the reason why only 30 cabs are being converted is due to the budget being slashed by Uncle Gordon....this may also impact F Lynx but I am told that there will be an annoucement end of Feb on that...

The only problem with the MCSP contract is that LMA are stiil programme lead - sometimes I really wonder if our lords and masters listen to us at the sharp end!


The typical RN quote about the Merlin is 'great helicopter....when it's servicable!) but the typical RAF quote is 'great helicopter'. I think that jack could learn a few tricks from 28 sqn on keeping there cabs in the air! Just look a flying rates in Iraq!

[Tourist]

To be fair, the crab cabs are an empty shell. There is a lot more to go wrong with the Naval varient. That's added of course to the different spares contract

[Navaleye]

We've been flying sonar gear around for 40 years, would have thought we'd know how to make it work by now. :}

[WE Branch Fanatic]

This from Navy News a few years back:

Frigate paves way for Merlin helicopter (http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2002/0211/1002110801.asp)

[southside]

Brilliant. Thanks WEBF. Nice to see that the Lancaster was "Blazing a trail for the introduction of the Merlin fleet".

That was written in 2002...How many Merlin flights now contribute to that "Blazing trail of Merlin Helicopters" ?

[Navaleye]

Urr 3... or is it 6 on frigates moving up to a maximum of 7. Not very impressive. It need weapons and sensors to equip it for todays needs. Once again opinion is divided. All the other major navies say are needed (and provided) the MoD says not. Much like organic air cover.