RN Sub Commander in Dressing Gown Tirades

[BillHicksRules]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/hampshire/4598850.stm

I am sorry if this has been posted elsewhere or is not deemed to be of interest.

I thought WEBF might like it.

Cheers

BHR

[Widger]

Saw picture in the Torygraph yesterday, looked like a grumpy sh!t.

[Navaleye]

This officer has no place in the navy and should be booted out forthwith.

[Pontius Navigator]

Navaleye, I am not defending but how in all that is holy did it take 6 years to bring him to the CM?

[Groucho]

Lt Cmdr Ramsey said he would be left in tears by Capt Tarrant's outbursts and would regularly vomit before going on shift...........................
Does the RN issue hankies to submarine crew:rolleyes:
Nice to know our nuclear deterrent is in the hands of fine, strong officers. Perhaps the horses-neck had been overdone the night before.:eek:

[Onan the Clumsy]

Do people REALLY wear dressing gowns on board submarines?

Isn't that a bit...casual?

What about when he's climbing up the stairs? :uhoh:











===

he should have vomited into the pocket of his Captain's dressing gown :}

[charliegolf]

Did nobody ever simply tell him to fcuk off?

CG

[Onan the Clumsy]

...or cast him adrift in a boat in the middle of the Pacific.

I bet they would have done if the submarine had been named after a piece of chocolate confectionary. After all, tradition is very important to the Navy.


:E

[Navaleye]

Pontius / Charlie

None of us were there so we just don't know. Why did it take so long? The navy, especially the underwater branch stick together very closely and there's a very strong sense of loyalty towards the skipper. I guess he must of pushed people to breaking point. Thankfully this was an SSN not an SSBN or they would have been heard in Moscow. Also according to reports this problem did not manifest itself ashore therefore not visible to senior mgt. I suspect his submarine days are over for good and he will fall off the Captains list sooner rather than later.

[LateArmLive]

My question is: how did he ever fit in a sub? Fat chocka..
Sorry, discrimination alert, I'll charge myself :E

[Glass Half Empty]

"use of repeated, unjustified verbal abuse"

I am a Senior Officer get me outa here.

Obviously a bit boring if he used the same words over and over and over and over.....................

[airborne_artist]

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205998

It seems that the Captain may actually have several part-time roles in addition to issuing rollockings to his staff..

[pigfist]

Moral of the story:

1. He has a beard - never trust men with beards - trust women even less.
2. He's fat.
3. He's a filthy tube slug.
4. And they promoted him!.

Now I know where I went wrong - F*ck!!!!!

[Jacks Down]

Having served on a Court Martial board and then read the press reports of the proceedings afterwards, I would caution against making judgements if the media is your only source of reference. Every drop of sensationalism, intrigue and scandal had been wrung from some pretty mundane proceedings that merited none of it.
Of course the press could be spot on and the coverage 100% unbiased and accurate. But I doubt it.
JD

[bad livin']

Anyone who's ever met Ryan Ramsey would find it tough to believe ANYONE would intimidate him. Must have been some tirade.

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Anyone remember the RAFG Provost bloke, Gus Fidget in the 80's?? Sounds like his brother!!

[Blacksheep]

Yelling abuse at a Chief Petty Officer Coxswain? He deserves a medal for bravery...

[airborne_artist]

He probably failed RN Pilot selection, and has been taking it out on everybody since :E

[bad livin']

Yeah, I can see how passing probably the most demanding career course in any armed service and subsequent command of a nuclear powered, multi role submarine who can keep entire fleets in port by suggesting it might be within hundreds of miles while landing SF, collecting SIGINT and shadowing ships VERY closely might make someone wish they'd been a bag pilot....

[Maple 01]

You fail too bad livin' ?

[ORAC]

Still, at least he didn´t hit a rock, or a fishing boat or an underwater mountain. I suspect that, to offset the rest, he must be very good at the job.

Lots of bosses I disliked over the years that I would have been glad to have in charge if we´d had to go to war.

[bad livin']

Maple - yes, at two things. Chopped pilot happily turned RN, so that's one. The other....to laugh at your feeble banter...


Rgds
BL

[Maple 01]

Just fishing.......:)

[FatBaldChief]

Saw the best headline ever used to report this story.
'Captain Thugwash'.
You can be sure it was not the Guardian.

[Onan the Clumsy]

maybe they should have used:

'Captain ThugUnWashed'

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41201000/jpg/_41201314_angryseamanpa203.jpg

[Navaleye]

Unusual to have a full Captain commanding an SSN these days. I thought they were usually Commanders. That means he's been through a selection process twice and in theory at least got there on merit. It just seems very strange. Maybe he's a bit sick up top?

[A2QFI]

That's not a beard! It is the South end of a Northbound camel!

[FJJP]

I have suffered at the hands of a bully to the point of depression. My whole life changed when I got the posting I asked for - my experience was well appreciated and I had an idyllic time.

If half of what is alleged is true, then this man should be moved sideways into posts where he answers to those of much higher rank, but has no contact with those of equal or lower.

Never again must he be placed in a position of authority over lesser mortals.

He should rot in hell to contemplate the misery he has inflicted on others.

[airborne_artist]

Unusual to have a full Captain commanding an SSN these days. I thought they were usually Commanders. That means he's been through a selection process twice and in theory at least got there on merit. It just seems very strange. Maybe he's a bit sick up top?

This case relates to incidents in 1999 - perhaps he's been promoted in the meantime?

[Pontius Navigator]

Indeed SSN Cdr to Captain in 7 years is a bit of a rapid stop.

Any clues why it took that long?

Ditto the 2.5 featuring in the case. Was he a 2.5 then? Is he still on the list or PPO?

[ORAC]

BBC: Sub captain cleared of bullying

A submarine captain has been cleared of three charges of ill-treatment by the use of repeated, unjustified verbal abuse, at a court martial hearing. Judge advocate, Jack Bayliss, directed a navy panel sitting in Portsmouth to acquit Capt Robert Tarrant, 44, after ruling there was no evidence to answer. But he still faces two charges from his time on HMS Talent in 1998 and 1999.

[27mm]

Wait a minute, that's Phil from Eastenders, isn't it?

[Navaleye]

Here (http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1209693,00.html)

Something smells a bit odd here. For him to CM on 9 charges, this would have been thoroughly investigated first and formal charges made. Strange all nine (?) get dropped.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

my thoughts also NE, but who knows? Guess it might be a case of a one word against another, though the implication was that it had happened in front of part of a crew... hmm

[Navaleye]

...and in more than one venue over an extended period. But as you say who knows?

[soddim]

Perhaps this is yet another case of the system always wins. Takes a very powerful reason for a charge made by an underling to be held up against a senior.

[doubledolphins]

The system does not always win. I do have personal experience of this. I am still serving, the Sad Case that brought me to trial has left the Service early. I feel that this whole sorry buisiness has been brought about because of differing ideas as to who or what makes a good submariner. In particular, the long established practice of a boat's CO being given some say in the make up of his officer compliment. I do not know any of the people concerned. Let me just say that I would be more embarrased to see a two and a half cry than a 3 ringer give some one a good reaming. Bad though they both are.

[wessex19]

The RAN had a bloke called LCDR "Psycho" Bates. Made everyone around him lives a misery. The kindest word I could use to descibe him was "nasty". He was eventually shown the door. Ironically his brother was one of the nicest guys I have ever had the privilege to meet who eventually got a command of a warship.
The moral of the story is, there are a miniority of people like this running around in all the services of the world making everyone they come into contact with lives a hell of a time then they leave your life as your next posting comes up. When you look back on them years down the track you think, why didn't I just .........., but at the time it wasn't that easy. I always use to think about "psycho", how would he handle civvy street???:cool:

[FJJP]

Wessex19, your second last sentence hits the nail on the head. I wish I had had the guts to shop the nasty - although I suspect that he would have sweet-talked his way out of it. He had been in trouble several times before but got away with it. Ended up with promotion and a couple of 'BE' awards. But then, who said life was fair?

It probably didn't occur to him that anything was wrong when 2 of his most senior people asked to be posted away at the same time, or that his 2 ic refused to do his dirty work for him...

[Pontius Navigator]

I think we often have the school boy or juvenille idea that bullying involved physical violence and are not tuned to the psycho variety. I eventually got the nerve to report my b*s*ard. I had had the training, I had nothng to lose, and I had my union advice.

I had the opportunity to tell his boss with predictable results. Naturally a formal complaint or even an official informal one would have been a PITA all round. The bosses reaction was surprise and 'I have the fullest confidence in xxxx'..

I got the result I wanted however and I was then treated with kid gloves and humanistic respect. I (and a number of my colleagues) never respected x though.

Who says unions, or disinterested impartial advice is not needed. Remember who pays the staff at handbrake house.

[doubledolphins]

I think some of you are missing the point. This man is inocent. A court martial taking advice from a civvy Judge Advocate has said so. Perhaps in future any officer whose performance fails to come up to his CO's or the Services expectations will be court martialed for incompetance. Give me a Reaming and a "could do better" report any day. Having said that it would be funny to see Sir Alex Ferguson in the Crown Court every time he gave one of his "Lazy" players the Hair Dryer.

[Onan the Clumsy]

Stil though...in a dressing gown? Very unofficer like :ugh:

[Bluntend]

I agree with doubledolphins. The Courts Marshall's decision that Captain Tarrant is innocent is final and IMHO sends out a strong message to anybody else in the Forces to think twice before playing the 'I was bullied card'. I've seen it happen before. On one occasion an airman tried to accuse his chief of 'bullying' because he'd been selected for a duty that would mean he'd have to be in work on a Sunday. This was a duty that everybody else on his shift had had to do at one time or other and he was next on the list. The airman was told to wind his neck in and it didn't go any further. My worry is that these days all you need is a devious/weak minded subordinate and a half-decent lawyer and not only is someone's career ruined but operational effectiveness of a unit, ship or Sqn can be compromised. Perhaps the individuals in this case need to go away and consider whether they are in the right job. If being shouted at because they screwed up is too much to take, exactly how would they cope under fire?
I fully agree with Onan the Clumsy's the dressing gown comment though...

[Art Field]

It may well be that the actions taken by the sub captain did not legally constitute bullying and there can be little room for poor performances in that confined situation but one has to question as to whether public displays of extreme anger are conducive to overall good discipline. Indeed could they be considered mental cruelty if taken to extreme levels. I am not considering the "good bo*****ing" situation but something much more vicious which I have witnessed on a couple of occasions.

[Onan the Clumsy]

I fully agree with Onan the Clumsy's the dressing gown comment though
In fairnes...maybe he had a special one made with eppaulettes and gold braid around the cuffs.

and a sword

[Pontius Navigator]

What should he have worn? Do they still issue blue and white stripped wincyette pyjamas? May be, given his girth now he may have needed a dressing gown in preference to a pussers towel.

The dressing gown may even be seen as a garment to ameliorate the bombast.:)

[CaptainFillosan]

All the same. As has been muted before, thorough investigations are carried out before instigating a courts martial. It's going to be tough now for some Admiral or lesser mortal to be entirely happy giving said Captain a job without thinking it might backfire on mthem both. There is NO smoke without fire and the smell will linger on for the rest of his career.

I have me doubts...................the dressing gown did that I'm afraid. Very naff and very tacky.

[Onan the Clumsy]

"Might I suggest these (http://www.ctshirts.co.uk/department.aspx?DepGrpCode=MEN&DepCode=MAPY&progrpcode=share) for Sir in future. It might help alieve some of that ...unpleasentness."

[frigthestoat]

It beggars belief that the RN took so long to recognise the danger lurking beneath the sea. Mind you this is one step better than the RAF who should have sacked certain gliding school CO's years ago. How long before we read in the National tabloid about a ranting and raving Squadron leader belittling and verbally abusing his pilots on the tarmac in front of an invited audience!

[Matt Skrossa]

Aha another pathetic failed/sacked VGS pilot attempting to hijack another thread!
If you seriously think ANY tabloid would be interested in 'a ranting and raving Squadron leader belittling and verbally abusing his pilots on the tarmac in front of an invited audience' then my friend you must lead a very sheltered life, I doubt whether any tabloid newspaper has even heard of the VGS system, whereas jo public has at least heard of nuclear submarines. There may of course be a story about a group of seditious, disloyal and frankly pitiable VGS staff, some of who may still hold a Commission from HMTQ, attempting to undermine the hardworking and professional members of the VGS fraternity, what do you think?

[frigthestoat]

Wrong on all counts old boy, but having read some of your other postings relating to glider schools, I think I'll save my energy for a tabloid news article; I'm sure that one or two of your old pals will provide enough entertainment.
Bye 4 now.:

[Matt Skrossa]

Frigthefailure, excellent news, but some advice; if you are hoping to remain anonymous by going to the tabloids then you will fail, therefore make sure your case is 100% watertight, otherwise you will find yourself on the receiving end of some hefty legal action. Secondly, please do the decent thing and let everyone on Pprune know when the tabloids are going to print this hot story so we can see the truth, or at least your/their version of it. As this is such an important issue I presume you will be off very soon to the Street of Shame? Finally, how about going public NOW by raising your serious concerns about a certain VGS with HQAC, surely they will have to take action if the organisation is a dangerous and badly run as you suggest?
p.s. If you are afraid of being unmasked try the ANYMOUSE route, and the best of luck old boy.

[Widger]

Bluntend,

having been on the receiving end, some many years ago, I can safely say that you are spouting utter *******s!

[Onan the Clumsy]

I had my job stolen by a bully.

Never having been bullied at school, I was unprepared for it and had no idea how to counteract it. In any event, short of escalating it bayond all proportion, there was probably little I could do as management closed ranks and I had no chance.

So yes it's a serious thing and as for "how they would react under fire" I think you're missing the point. Rank is suppsed to be awarded to those who deserve it as opposed to magically endowing a person with character, dependability and the ability to see into the future. How is a subordinate supposed to react under fire if they know they are serving under a person who hasn't really got a clue what to do and hasn't got the maturity to admit that they might make mistakes?

In my case management continually refered to thamselves as "Leadership". But to me, Spartacus was a "leader".


So no. Bullies in command work for the enemy.

[A2QFI]

A dressing gown for a dressing down, it seems!

[clicker]

A dressing gown for a dressing down, it seems!

Or a big cover up!

As Mummy said to me when I was a little lying brat of a minor age.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time but never all of the people all of the time"

So justice will come to Captain RN in the end.

[Tracey Island]

Onan

"Rank is suppsed to be awarded to those who deserve it as opposed to magically endowing a person with character, dependability and the ability to see into the future."

I think you'll find rank is not a reward for past performance but an enabler for future potential having previously demonstrated merit. However, agree with the lack of magical qualities bestowed on those promoted....:uhoh:

[Navaleye]

Hence the expression "The further you are promoted from Lt Cdr the less competent you become". :rolleyes:

[Matt Skrossa]

Frigthescrote, I have been faithfully buying all the tabloids since your claim 'I think I'll save my energy for a tabloid news article'. Just to save myself some money can you let us know how you are getting on? It is obviously such a HUGE story that all the papers must be vying for your valuable insight, maybe I should be buying the broadsheets too? Or perhaps you have been flown to see Rupert Murdoch in person to discuss your 6 figure sum, or even you could be in discussions with Hollywood to turn this into a major blockbuster, the anticipation is just so exciting!!

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Skrossa... no disrespect, but I think myself and the rest of the prune fraternity would sleep much happier in our beds/bunks/maggots at night if you would stop continuing to hi-jack this thread about a serious issue with backbiting comments ...

[Matt Skrossa]

Dear pba_target, If you look back within this thread you will in fact see that this thread was 'hijacked' by frigthestoat, a point I made in my opening line of my first post. As he has chosen to use this thread to raise a point about the VGS system it is only right and proper that I also use this thread to reply. As for 'backbiting', try searching recent previous threads about the Volunteer Gliding Squadron setup and the accusations flying around in those, then you will see some real backbiting from frig and his mates, who are trying to undermine the good work of one VGS in particular by slander and frankly seditious behaviour. If such behaviour had been demonstrated by Officers in a 'regular service' then I am sure charges would have been brought against these 'backbiters'. If you want more details PM me.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Matt, am not getting involved in your arguement, but your replying, and comments in posts previous to this one only serve to drag out and bring more attention to their arguement. If you want to have it out start a thread for yourselves, but don't continue to post on others, especially when your oppo hasn't posted for a week.

Thanks for the courtesy.

[teeteringhead]

Thought it was Queeg who had the balls (as in bearings...)

[Dogfish]

These people spend months on end cooped up in an underwater tincan, is it any wonder that they are a bit strange. Maybe they should all get out more.:rolleyes:

[cornwallis]

They are not called sun dodgers for nothing!:}