Jobs in other EU states for multi-lingual low hours pilots?

[king rooney]

Hi all,

need to do more research on this my-self but was just wondering if anyone else out there has any thoughts.
Basically I am about to start ATPL training with a view to getting an airline job. Have heard much about the difficulties faced by low hours pilots in getting uk based jobs however am thinking I might be able to hedge my bets by going for something in France or Spain at the same time. (I can speak prety good french and spanish and could easily achieve fluency by working at it at the same time as doing my training, possibly gaining a formal business qualification if necessary).

Do French and Spanish airlines take on low hours pilots with no type ratings?

To what extent might they be biased towards pilots from their own countries?

Would they be looking for perfect spanish/ french or would very good be sufficient?

Which country would be the better bet? (im guessing france as it has the stronger economy (I think!))

[scroggs]

Theoretically, you are entitled to apply for a job in any EU state and should be given the same chance as any other candidate as long as you are fully qualified for the job - including being able to speak whatever languages are required. However, most organisation in most countries will tend to favour their own nationals, if only because they are likely to understand them better at interview (and I'm not just talking about speech - culture and body language are important too, and have regional and national variations just as much as speech does).

That said, nowhere in Europe is the aviation market as buoyant as it is in UK. Therefore, you are likely to be competing against more, and more desperate, people for each job available. Is that what you're after?

Scroggs

[king rooney]

aviation market as buoyant as it is in UK. Therefore, you are likely to be competing against more, and more desperate, people for each job available. Is that what you're after?
Scroggs

Maybe, but are there as many people looking for jobs in other countries?

In Spain certainly (dunno bout france) there is not as much personal wealth kicking around so Im thinking there may not be as many people who can fund their own training..... its an interesting one, ill do some research into it over the next few days and report my findings to ppruners.

[E. Mach]

As long as I know in Spain they have about 4000 unemplyed pilots :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: :ouch: including low hours and some with higher hours and type rating basically A320 and ATR (these low hours and I believe some high hours). But make your own search...:p :p :p :p :p :p
Good luck

[king rooney]

Cheers e-mach for your comment. I may be wrong but get the distinct impression that you might be taking the piss, perhaps due to the 6 "mocking faces" you put after your post!
From where do you gain your insight into the spanish job market, and where might I look to find out for myself. :p :p :p :p :p :p

[no sponsor]

Despite scroggs' assertion that there are buoyant times in the recruitment market, the reality is that in the UK it is as tough as ever for low houred non-jet/turbo-prop pilots. The fact that you speak other languages would be of help, but only to a limited extent. Certain countries will be very difficult to break into, unless you personally know someone in the operation, or have some qualification others don't.

You always hear of others getting jobs, often third hand, but in the last 8 months I know of only 1 person getting a job, and she knew someone in the airline, from my network of people and from my school. I reckon that must be from a pool of about 40-50 fully qualified CPL/IR holders. It's pretty grim out there...:uhoh

[E. Mach]

I am not taking the piss...(I don´t win anything doing it.Those faces where to encourage you to fin out yourself)

if you speak spanish look at this web page: www.pilotosdeiberia.com and ask around there... I tried it last year in Spain and other countries and well just telling you the situation...

Was just trying to help you not to lose your money and time but well give it a try you never know. Best luck

E.Mach:ok::ok::ok:

[king rooney]

Muchas gracias senor e-mach.

[BarajasGuy]

Forget about Spain,

Just 4.000 unemployed pilots? I am sure that number has grown up over the last months! The only airline currently hiring pilots is "vueling", and either you have more than 1.500 hrs TT or an A320 Type Rating with tons of time on type. Judge for yourself though, but I wouldn’t encourage you to look for a position here.

Cheers,

A Spanish Pilot

[M80]

As has been said, Spain would not be the easiest proposition despite being fluent in the language. Entering an airline here will require a significant inside contact as the industry is fairly nepotistic. A better bet might be a lo-cost with a base in Spain to give you an advantage with your Spanish.

Employment laws seem to be very rigidly enforced to offer equal opportunities to all Europeans in the UK, which isn't neccesarily upheld elsewhere. And then that's a whole different can of worms...!

[Air Polygamy]

Well well well!
Is the UK emplyment market as good as it said to be or is it pretty tough to land a job after a frozen ATPL?

[blueplume]

It's been said before: if you're low-houred and want that first job pack your bags and go further afield outside Europe. There are jobs to be had in the Caribbean and Africa (Caribbean is better for the most part, trust me) but only if you're on the ground and camping on their doorstep. I know people who qualified in 1998 and still haven't managed to get their first job while others went walk-about and are doing fine now. Salaries are often very good when you add up extras like tips (which you invariably get in the Caribbean and other holiday areas because people who go there usually have money) and overtime. Plus you get to spend a couple of years in the sun being paid to be on holiday basically and doing what you trained to do.
So if you can get your head around cutting some links and renting the house to someone while you're away, buy that ticket!
Oh, and did I mention the fact that you will be getting great single pilot experience flying into some very basic strips? It all counts and makes you confident in your abilities.

[king rooney]

Blue prune

I like what you are saying about getting jobs in the Carribbean, can you offer me some advice on this. (I will be a newly qualified JAA atpl, low hours pilot in about a years time.)

I presume you are talking about island hopping jobs in multi engine piston planes, right? Will a mep class rating cover me for this kind a thing?
What experience do you have of this kind of thing in the Carribean? How does one get the jobs, just turn up and ask around?

Will the jaa licence cover me over there?

Also, there's no probs with the old language over there, me speak gud da patwa mon!

[blueplume]

Hi king rooney

My experience is 3 years flying Islanders around the islands. Most places will take you with 500 TT, 250 ME. Having a CAA/JAA licence makes the conversion to British Caribbean licence much easier as you have done all the exams. The Directorate of Civil Aviation, Antigua will issue you with a DCA CPL complete with shoelace holding it together and photograph (means you can use it as a legal document to enter countries i.e. islands without having your passport on you, just like to old UK licences but I digress). The DCA is responsible for the British Overseas Territories in the Caribbean.

You will probably have to do a type rating on the Islander. Sounds silly I know but they're a bit behind, using Air Navigation Order (Overseas Territories).

The best way to get noticed is to go there, start at the top of the chain and work your way down thumbing lifts with the local carriers (anybody, scheduled and charter) who will usually give you a free ride if you ask nicely, wear a pilot uniform with some bars, show your licence and be patient. Then go and see every company along the way, drop your details and keep in touch while enjoying the sunshine and rum. Learn to talk your way into and out of every conceivable situation and be prepared to see things that just don't happen in the real world. If you can do all that you'll have a great time and few STDs.

In a nutshell......

[thebeast]

Although this sounds like a fantastic idea I m going to be negative here, as in reality it seems very out of reach for a low hours pilot like myself (260 TT 46ME). I expect you have more chance of more regular airline employment however slim than getting single pilot ops work and where on earth do you get 250 hrs multi engine time without winning the lottery? Or spending a large sum and time on instructing

‘Most places will take you with 500 TT, 250 ME’

As for finding the job surely a couple of months living the Caribbean island hopping to find a job wont exactly be cheap even if not staying in Sandals!!!!

We re doooomed all doooomed

[king rooney]

Exactly Beast man.

250 hrs multi engine? from where? Might they take a 200 hrs/ 45 me guy if he were to work for free?

You can find cheap gaffs to stay in the Caribbean though. Was recently paying £7 a night for a beach cabin in Belize. The locals are also well friendly and I'd bet ud find some one to put you up in their house for about £100 a month.

[blueplume]

I've been thinking about the ME requirement again. If I remember correctly they took me with 500 TT and 100 multi, sorry about that. Getting older you know.

[king rooney]

Blueplume,

was the type rating much hassle? did you get it before you went looking round or did they sort you out for it once you got the job?

[blueplume]

They paid for the rating. Nothing much to it, two sides of A4 questions, about 40 facts to remember. I got the job by meeting someone who knew that the company was looking for pilots, called 12 times a day till they got pissed offf with that and told me to come & take the test. If you've done your training over here you won't have any probs. passing their flight test.

[Mr.Fly]

Hi!
Just to let you know that I've applied to a Polish regional airline. Got an invitation for a interview within a week, and got in easely. I am currently doing my ATR TR with them (and paid by them of course) and am looking to start flying March/April. My TT 310h. The pay is about 18,000 Pounds a year.
So get to work guys and gals.
:=

[Ozy]

So what is the name of this airline in Poland. Are you polish? Do they require you to speak polish? Can one get the job speaking English, Russian and Bulgarian? Could you give me a link to their website or a phone number where I can contact them - the Airline I mean.
Thank you in advance!

[Fancy Navigator]

Well well well!
Is the UK emplyment market as good as it said to be or is it pretty tough to land a job after a frozen ATPL?
No, it is tough, very tough ! Do not think that it is easier here.
FNav

[FirstOfficer]

Portuguese airlines for FOs normaly only ask for 300h TT TAP Portugal doesnt require a TR but most of the jobs goes to locals (new planes arriving means more jobs), as for the rest they do ask for TR but in terms of TT its more or less the same as above, EU nationals applying for flying jobs in Portugal have more luck with Portugalia Airlines or HiFly than TAP.

Worth a shot anyway.

[A320rider]

with the number of unemployed pilots(over 20'000 in europe, thats my statistic), It would be better to spend some money in a flight ticket and go knock directly at the airlines' door, than to spend wisely a fortune on type ratings, that nobody really cares anyway.(ohhh!!, I am so sorry!!!, what we need right now, is a Fokker 100 pilot, we do not have A320 )


in this business, it' s connection and luck!

[cavok_italy]

Guys, you all are holding the ATPL, isn't it?
I'm doing my CPL, so I think none of your kind suggestions will fit....
Any suggestion for me?
thanks a lot