Conspiracy Theory

[Yahweh]

Is it my imagination or do people just learn off lots and lots of questions when studying for the ATPL's, as opposed to learning the material?

If the answer is yes, does it work?

[FlyUK]

The people who don't learn the manuals soon get caught out when they apply for a job. An interviewer can see within minutes if you don't know your stuff....

Your call. Learn the stuff, higher chance of a job...
...Learn the questions, sit at home with no job complaining about other people getting jobs and that the whole system is unfair etc...

[Tinker]

You used to have to learn certain answers off by heart before the system changed to JAR..now it is a lot easier so there is no reason not to learn the subject matter.

[powdermonkey]

Do both! Try and understand what you can, especially when distance learning, it's not easy, but you must pass those exams and so do lots of questions to.
Fly UK, I spent a long time trying to learn off everything during my first module, and although very noble, I sure as hell didn't understand everything, with the best will in the world!!! BUT I HAD TO PASS, and did so quite well.
Do I know or remember everything now? Hell no! Don't put too high an emphasis on all this information, it's too much too fast, time to learn and figure out the important stuff as it applies when you are flying and training, but for now, people do what they can to pass, and learning questions although next to impossible without some basic understanding of the text is a way to pass...not ideal but then again neither is the syllabus.
So I repeat, learn and understand what you can, then hammer those qbanks until you can answer those questions, time is ticking and you don't have that much of it to do 14.
Good luck

[FlyUK]

Ok, I admit, it is impossible to learn everything, but you can give it a damn good go.
I think you understand what i'm getting at in the first post though. It is hard work, yes, but it is noticed later on how much effort you put in.

[scroggs]

The people who don't learn the manuals soon get caught out when they apply for a job. An interviewer can see within minutes if you don't know your stuff....

Your call. Learn the stuff, higher chance of a job...
...Learn the questions, sit at home with no job complaining about other people getting jobs and that the whole system is unfair etc...


And you have a great deal of experience in assessing job applicants in this industry, do you?

Be very careful of making statements that simply emphasise your own prejudices and assumptions. You risk making yourself look foolish.

The ATPL exam syllabus covers an enormous amount of material, much of which you will never need again. The exam format itself encourages the learning of answers by rote, and the various ground schools are well aware of this. They will do their best to inculcate in you an understanding (albeit shallow) of the various topics, but they can't hope to give you a serious level of understanding of all the topics you have to cover. This is not helped by some of the guidance material and exam questions actually demanding arguably incorrect information! There are several examples on this forum of ATPL questions which make no sense whatsoever, but which can be answered to the satisfaction of the CAA if you've been forewarned. So learning the questions does happen, and is recognised by both the schools and by all pilots who have been through the system.

The important thing is that you use the stuff you've learned during ground school to help you to an understanding of the realities of aviation as you need them, and to have a clue where to look when you need to learn (or relearn) new stuff.

You will not face an employment interview until you have completed your CPL/IR training, during which time you will have been able to assess what you need to retain from the ATPL syllabus and what, for now, you can forget - and you will forget most of it! Your interviewer, when you face them, will not be trying to see how much you remember from an academic syllabus; they will be looking for what you have learned from your practical training.

Scroggs

[High Wing Drifter]

For some subjects where there are many grey areas like Met and PoF you will need to understand the theory as a good proportion of the answers require a bit of first priniciples stuff. Gnav is forumlas, plotting and whizz wheel. Feedback doesn't provide answers, it just shows you the style of questions. Stuff like Radio Nav, Comms, HPL, Ops Procs and Air Law and almost heavily feedback oriented. The rest is somewhere inbetween.

FWIW, my assessment was that the most I could have scored on any exam if I only worked from feedback would have been around 75%(ish). My conclusion is that feedback alone is not sufficient.

[FlyUK]

FWIW, my assessment was that the most I could have scored on any exam if I only worked from feedback would have been around 75%(ish). My conclusion is that feedback alone is not sufficient.

Basically what I was trying to say in a very round about way. :O

[powdermonkey]

Scroggs, an excellent answer!!

We all start the ATPLs with wonderful ideals, finaly studying something we have a passion for...then reality kicks in. The truth is that to have a COMPLETE understanding and to be able to retain MOST of the 13 different subjects would take many many years of study, simply not possible. How many years of engineering are required to fully grasp aerodynamics, how many years to be a weather forecaster etc etc. this is nothing more than an introduction to a vastly complex industry and a barrier to weed out those who really want from those who are not just quite prepared to slug it out.
IT WOULD BE IDEAL if all that we learned was DIRECTLY related to a flying day, but it simply is not, and I imagine that very few of us will ever FULLY understand ALL the workings of ac, met, law, ops etc even after 40 years in the job!
So keep bashing away and we will get there in the end.
Well it's back to AGK and a very partial understanding of said subject so far!
Good luck everyone

[Elixir]

For me, going through feedback questions was an excellent learning tool...as long as you are understanding the basic theory behind each answer and not learning them parrot fashion.

Anyone who has been through ATPL's will know that the CAA sometimes have a roundabout way of asking questions so going through sample questions can really help! What helped me most was going through questions with the answers covered up and answering them before seeing the 4 options. This way you are recalling your knowledge rather than answering by recognition of the correct option.

[Yahweh]

Thanks for the input guys. I get the impression that it requires a bit of both to do well at the exams, a certain knowledge of the material aswell as a lot of practice at question banks.
The truth is I think I'm going mental trying to learn all this material and I guarantee that as soon as the exams are done I'm going to take all the manuals and burn them in a big bonfire and dance around it waving a stick;)

[benhurr]

FWIW, my assessment was that the most I could have scored on any exam if I only worked from feedback would have been around 75%(ish). My conclusion is that feedback alone is not sufficient.

And what is the passmark for the ATPL''s?

In think that 75% would be sufficient, in fact it could be thought of as almost ideal!;)

[Permafrost_ATPL]

Maybe I should have learned the questions to just pass with 75%. I worked my ass off to get over 90% average and none of the online applications ask what your average was! And a lot of them don't ask whether you passed CPL/IR first time either. How rewarding :-)

P

[High Wing Drifter]

In think that 75% would be sufficient, in fact it could be thought of as almost ideal!
If failing eight subjects (assuming I'm right about the other six) is ideal then I have got it all very wrong ;)