Type Rating - ATR 42/72?

[wingedwilliam]

Dear all

I am considering doing an ATR type rating with Skyblue Aviation and I am looking for some feedback from recent trainees. I have heard that instructors are all very competent, but I am more concerned about the help they provide AFTER the course: do they really have good contacts in the industry? Do they try and facilitate your job search?

Thanks a lot for your help! All feedback on Skyblue is more than welcome!

And Happy New Year to all

WW.

[sexychic]

Yes, someone called the_receiver 2004 is doing a course with them. Not sure of his PM address though - sorry! I'm supposed to be doing the course in January but don't think I'll get the money together in time.

S x

[wingedwilliam]

Thanks for your reply S x!

Any more feedback on Skyblue?

[tailwheel76]

A friend did his ATR rating with them, found them very good. He said that a lot of the ATR operaters go to them to source people for interview as they are one of the few places (?) in the UK that do the rating. He got offers of work soon after finishing.

[LeNautilus]

Hello guys!
I am planning to do an ATR type rating this year.
I have selected some TRTOs on... ahum... the price :E of the training and I now have to choose between Olympic Aviation's Flight Academy (Greece), Global Training Aviation (Spain) and Farnair (Switzerland).
As the prices they charge for a TR are "cheap", I'm afraid the quality of their training might be as cheap as their prices...
What do you think of these TRTOs? I'd like to get some feedback from guys who have gone throught their type rating...
Even if my thread is not about wonderful jet aircrafts ;) , I hope I'll get some answers and feedback :ok:

[MJR]

I would do it with Farnair as they might give you a job after.

[LeNautilus]

That's the positive point when you do your type rating with an airline but there is no guaranty... I'm thinking of that but I would not choose Farnair only because of this point.
I'm more looking for information about the "quality" of training: kind of material/documentation used, at what time are planned the simu hours, experience of instructors, etc. There might be a lot of differences between a professional training center and a small airline.
I prefer not paying too much of course but I don't want just a stamp on my licence...

[winch launch]

Nautilusn just out of curiosity, can you tell us how much is the rating at farnair?

[wingedwilliam]

You should consider Skyblue aviation in Exeter. £ 16,500 for the ATR type rating course, including the base training. Outstanding instructors, friendly atmosphere, they bend over backwards to accomodate your specific needs...
However, the market is not as good as it used to be for ATR type rated pilots... unless you already have good contacts with one of the operators (which I don't... :sad: ).
Feel free to pm me if you need more details
WW.

[airpilot]

I wouldn't do it at all. I wish people would just sit tight and not pay for a type.

Don't forget Air Wales dumped a load of ATR pilots on to the market.

If you look around the whole aviation market and cast your nets as wide as possible their are plenty of operators small and large that are still bonding.

[LeNautilus]

WW, I have some contacts with friends... of friends working with some operators, but I am not sure that will really help me. I am not able anymore to pm, not even to read them. I will contact you to have more information as soon as it is fixed.
Farnair price is 17,000€. The cheapest I've found is Olympic Aviation: 14,500€. The most expensive is in France: 50,000€ (yes, there is no mistake, fifty thousands), this :ugh: price includes MCC and some IFR training...
Airpilot, I know it is risky to pay for one's type rating. I have taken into account many factors and I've finally decided to go for it. alea jacta est.

[FougaMagister]

Olympic might be cheaper, but remember that you would have to travel to/from Thessaloniki for the sim bit, and that's probably going to set you back more than going to either Spain or Britain.

Something that's got to be taken into account as well is the TRTO's reputation where you intend to find work; airline recruiters are usually creatures of habit, therefore they would usually favour an applicant that has been through a TRTO they know. For intance, most FOs with Aer Arann have been type rated either through ATR or through Skyblue; same goes for Air Contractors. Most, if not all, Atlantique crew went through Skyblue. Same goes for Aurigny. Why? Because the airlines were satisfied with the calibre of applicants issued by these TRTOs, and they don't see any reason to change now.

As has been mentioned, Air Wales' demise has created a (temporary) glut of ATR-rated applicants to other ATR operators; though that will subside in due time (some of them have had offers from non-ATR operators), now might not be the best time for the rating, unless you already have some very specific contacts.

Cheers :cool:

[michaelknight]

Not so sure about the relationship between Arann and Sky Blue. Lately the company has introduced a sim assessment on the B737 for type rated FO's trained due to the number who have either failed their OPC on entering the company or struggled through line training. The standard in Sky Blue used to be very good but from the people I see lately it is not as good as it used to be for whatever reason. Now in saying that I'm not saying that everyone coming out of there is not up to scratch. I have found that Aer Arann are more cautious about taking people from there.

[deputy dawg]

Not so sure about the relationship between Arann and Sky Blue. Lately the company has introduced a sim assessment on the B737 for type rated FO's trained due to the number who have either failed their OPC on entering the company or struggled through line training. The standard in Sky Blue used to be very good but from the people I see lately it is not as good as it used to be for whatever reason. Now in saying that I'm not saying that everyone coming out of there is not up to scratch. I have found that Aer Arann are more cautious about taking people from there.
Where do Arann pilots do their type rating then? Is it in house or do they employ a 3rd party? I understood that the SkyBlueAviation course was/is pretty good and that they have a good success rate on both the courses and also placing pilots. Certainly the news on their website is upbeat, although there is not much reference to the UK, apart from the demise of Air Wales.

So, are Aer Arann recruiting? There does not seem to be any information on this. The website states possible future vacancies for first officers, but you mention a sim ride, so it seems they are?

Presumably if the sim ride is 737 it must be based around GH ? Is this because they are recruiting non-TR guys?

All very intriguing.

http://www.prevu.net/dawg.gif

[MJR]

Completed my ATR rating with Skyblue 12 months ago, still no job and my rating is about to lapse. Getting even an interview with Aer Arann is a complete mystery to me.

[michaelknight]

Aer Arann has always preferred to do in house type ratings as the company is a TRTO. This way they select their own candidates and train them using their own instructors and SOP's. This is common to all commercial operators in the world. However there are a few variables that can upset things along the way. It takes nowadays probably three months from the day you first turn up for your induction course at the company to be signed off at line check. This means that you are taking training staff away from their other duties in the company quite a lot over the course of this time. Technical training is conducted by qualified first officers in the company and all sim work by their TRE/TRI's. Line training is a minimum of 40 sectors. Coupled with this you must complete the various exams and standard first aid, dangerous goods, CRM courses etc along the way.

With all of what I have said in mind there comes a time when the company cannot wait that long for people to come through the system. When this happens they have to look elsewhere and that is where your type rated guys come along. My opinions in my previous post are based on my experience to date of one such training company, not on one's individual flying skills. Arann will always require first officers and especially captains. The company is growing at a phenomenal rate and expanding its fleet all the time. In my opinion there will be plenty of jobs in the near enough future. There are plenty of FO's coming close to command so they will all have to be replaced. Coupled with the the airline has ordered ten brand new aircraft to be delivered over the next three years so thats about 50 jobs in itself not withstanding those who move on within the company itself. Someone mentioned the Air Wales guys. From my understanding most had jobs within a few days of the company going under.

My point in the whole post is to be careful when going down the route of the self sponsored type rating. You will have to pay for your rating in Arann but you have a job at the end of it. If you ask any of the senior management they will always say they prefer to train their own guys. Now in saying that the company has a lot of ex Skyblue trained guys flying for them. Many of who are excellent. In fact most of them. It's the people we don't get to see that is a bit worrying. Lately many haven't made it through the initial stages of the Arann training despite their rating. Good luck to you if you go down that route and pick a company that you feel will give you the best value for the money you have payed.

[deputy dawg]

michaelknight - please check your pm's.
http://www.prevu.net/dawg.gif

[LeNautilus]

Where does the base training of Skyblue' students take place?
Does this TRTO has an agreement with an airline or do they go to TLS?

On the JAA website, they are lists of TRTOs for each country member of the JAA. In Ireland, I've found nothing concerning Aer Arann.
Are you guys sure that Aer Arann is an approved TRTO for ATR type ratings?

[thereceiver2004]

when I was at Skyblue oing the ATR rating, I did my base training with Air Wales at Cardiff, I know they have also used Air Contractors at Shannon and Aer Arann at Knock... so I guess who ever is available.

TR

[tilley]

Hi, To everybody in the world, has anybody got any info on the air contractors interview have one on thursday could surely use the help

thanks

[carbheatout]

If you want a job with Arann, you'll be doing the rating through them at a ost of 25,000 Euro, as per the Chief Pilot, DS.

[deputy dawg]

Hi, To everybody in the world, has anybody got any info on the air contractors interview have one on thursday could surely use the help

thanks

Do you mean contractors or arran?

[SKY's4ME]

Tilley
CHECK YOUR PM's!!!

[TwoDeadDogs]

Hi all
I want to get opinions on the various schools that offer training on the ATR.Has anyone any experience of any TRTO other than SkyBlue and the real success rate of their candidates in getting work?
regards
TDD

[corklad]

hi all. just wondering if anyone here knows the cost of an ATR-42/72 type rating and the best place to do it. I see that flight safety does it in houston TX, but couldnt find a price for the course :ugh: . does anyone know anywhere else wher you can do a type on this plane and a cost..rough estimate is cool :ok: .

[Jam-Yo]

Get a job with Eagle and wait your turn to be Capt....

[ICING AOA]

It is true that ATR operators quite often need pilots, but bear in mind that there are still far more type rated guys looking for a job than vacancies available !
Around myself, I have seen guys getting a job straight after the type rating, and some others still waiting for a job with their TR which has now been out of date !
Just be careful !
good luck ;)

[No_Speed_Restriction]

Why not do a 737 type rating instead?

[wangus]

Good friend of mine did ATR type rating with Air Wales, prior to it collapsing. Unable to find work and really wishing she had done a 737 or 320 TR for what it's worth. Look at number of them flying around.

[Shaikh N Hoque]

Hi,

Like to do my type on ATR 72 or 42, is anyone know where I can go & get that?

Thank you

Hoque,Shaikh

[mrwilko]

Hi Sheikh,

You can do one with Blue Sky Aviation. Their offices are in Bristol I think, but they do the ground-school at Exeter and the sim and flying in Morlaix in Northern Brittany. Takes about 6 weeks.
Why the ATR? I heard that Vacancies were hard to come by but if you've heard otherwise, see you on the course! Air Wales ATR rated chaps took a lot of the recent slots.

[blueskiesup]

I'm thinking of doing an ATR rating, Skyblue seems to be a popular TRTO. Has anyone had any experience with them, a friend did his and said all good things. I understand that you have to send a CV and cover letter, in addition, you have to do a phsychometric test and interview???.

Also, there's Flight Safety International???.

I don't want to get into a debate about SSTR's, so constructive opinions only please. P.S., I'm mid-late thirties so i need to get a move on to get that first job.

[Right Touch]

Did my TR with them back in 2003 and could'nt fault them.

Good facillities , Good Instructors and Morlaix for the Sim ( In Summertime) is a nice place to go with lots of good restaurants / bars :)

Ps the physchometric stuff and interview is only for the 737 Rating according to their website. No-one that i know off whose done the ATR rating has had to do it.

Cheers

[FougaMagister]

I would second that. Did ATR rating there in 2005 and they were first rate. However, whether going for an ATR rating now is a good idea is another question. Remember that Air Wales went under last year and that Atlantic Express are stopping the ATR operation before March, so the only 3 outfits left in the British Isles are Aer Arann (helps if you are Irish - seriously!), Air Contractors and Aurigny (helps if you are from the Channel Islands due employment preferences there).

That said, you can develop useful contacts with these outfits (and maybe others further afield) during the type rating.

Cheers :cool:

[blueskiesup]

Thanks for the replies, i figured on the t/p rating as it'll give me both jet and t/p avenues(regarless of type), whereas,if i did a jet course, i'm restricting the possibility of getting a first job as t/p operators won't look at me, logical thinking???.

[FougaMagister]

That's possible. I have had several contacts (and one interview :ok: ) with jet operators since being ATR-rated. One advantage of a TP rating is that operators of this type of a/c do not always require hours on type (whereas most jet operators do).

Cheers :cool:

[ICING AOA]

Air Contractors and Aurigny (helps if you are from the Channel Islands due employment preferences there).

hello fougamagister,

what you are saying is not completely right. I have a friend who used to work with Aurigny, and he told me that they have had lots of nationalities !
an Italian, an Australian, a Mexican, some French, lots of English guys, a Swedish one, and an American. He told me they had only 3 local guys..
(and for the cabin crew they have even more nationalities )

cheers!

[FougaMagister]

Let me re-phrase: I'm not saying you can't get a look in with GR if you aren't from the CI - but that faced with several applicants with comparable backgrounds (say, an ATR42/72 rating and same total hours), they would favour in descending order:

1/ CI residents
2/ "mainland" British
3/ Other

I understand it's due to CI preferential employment laws - remember the CI are NOT part of the EU, so EU equal opportunities directives etc. do not apply in GCI. Confirmed to me by a colleague who currently flies for Aurigny. Of course, they have recruited "foreigners" before (and still do), but they have to at least try to fill in positions with "locals" first...

(un peu comme a Air Tahiti apparemment :* )

Cheers :cool:

[chlong]

hi all, am thinking of doing an atr type rating with sky blue with possibility of getting in with either aer arann or air contractors preferably ( i have read all about sstr and dont want to get into that debate ) . has anyone any up to date info on what policy either of these airlines have in regards to taking on low hour ( 300TT) with atr rating. i am 40+ so a jet job is probably out for me at the moment. any feedback from guys just trained at skyblue also very welcome. any info greatly appreciated.:ok:

[Global Pilot]

Skyblue run an excellent course. Factor in accom and living expenses (as you will on any course). Ground school in Exeter over 9days. e.g. Arrive there Sunday for a Monday start. 5 days of CBT with weekend free for beer or study (you need to make a command decision here).
Second Monday - Tech Exam
Second Tuesday - Performance
B&B in Whimple (about 7mins drive by car) is £18 a night. I would recommend staying at "The Jays". You wont go hungry with the breakfast in the morning there. There is another one, The Busy B but food is crap and it is a bit of a walk from the pub at night. You need a car or access to a car if in Whimple. I am sure if you play stupid then Skyblue will arrange a pick up etc as more than likely the ground instructor will be traveling from there. Great pub there to help you relax at night. We used to study in the pub doing question and answer sessions.
Sim is two weeks in Morlaix using the sim at the Icare faciity. Again Morlaix is a great place with excellent restaurants and bars. Hotel is only OK (if they put you in Hotel du Port) and again they will transfer you to and from the sim as it is a 45mins walk. Bus available to get you there on days off so you can practice in the Carboard cutout.
Skybue have just installed a fix based sim there so they may have changed the course slightly to reflect this. As a result I would expect a slight reduction in the fees or maybe an extra session in the FNPT for the same price. I got a chance to look at it last weekend when I was there helping out with a command upgrade course and it is pretty impressive.
A/C training is currently with Aerocondor in Agen in France. usually takes place on a Sat or Sun.
Some problems to be aware of if you commit yourself to this course:
Your course partner. Make it known that you want someone of similar expierence to yourself and someone who is tuned in.
There may be a delay between ground school and the sim. I was waiting two weeks. It worked out well for me as it gave me time to prepare for the sim but you need to factor this in if you are taking time of work or traveling home.
There is also a possible delay in waiting for aircraft training. I was waiting a month.
Alll travel and hotac is at your expense. It can get expensive if you leave it all till the last minute, especially for aircraft training as I only got two days notice and Ryanair were expensive as a result.
Skyblue are extremely busy now as they have a contract with PIA to train a large number of crews so I would suggest you talk to them immediatly and express interest in the first available course.
There is heaps of work out there for ATR rated guys. I was sitting around for over 2months but then had three offers in as many days. It may not be exactly what you want but it will be flying. Dutch Antilles Express in the Caribbean are taking people form Skyblue.

Arann are always recruiting. They do take low hour people but I would suggest you talk to them before you commit to Skyblue. Arann are a TRTO and are currently SSTRs. Cost is the same as SkyBlue.
Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.

I have also sent you a private message so check it and get back to me if I can assist further.

rgds,
GP.

[VS-LHRCSA]

Aer Arann are a great outfit to work for. Not the most organised and sometimes a little too laid back but once you get used to it, it's fine.

You could do much worse, that's for sure!

[babymike737]

I had my name down to do an ATR type rating with Skyblue. Sort of had a promise from Air Wales for a job when completed. I then met up with a certain person by chance.

One week before the start of the course, I changed over to the 737 with Skyblue. Their training is excellent and would recommend using them for ATR or 737 Two months later, that person phoned me for an interview for a good low cost airline.:) Have now got 1400 hours on the 737. 6 months later Air Wales went tits up. :eek: :ouch:

I Would say, unless you have a sniff of a job, don't do it, as I know of a few guys who are still "working behind a bar", with a rusty old ATR type rating in their back pocket.
I was very lucky! It Really was, in my case, of "being at the right place at the right time", and of "who you know!"

I know that to get a 737 job now with no hours is virtually impossible. Even Ryanair ask for 100 minimum. The airlines like to train you under a bond, using their trainers and bring in the SOP's at the same time.

ATR's are less common, but the lack of line experience is not such a factor. As a result there tend to be lots of ATR rated pilots, for not so many jobs!

Good Luck! Keep smiling, and don't give in!

[potkettleblack]

If you are at the point when you feel that your chances of a job and your networking skills are getting you nowhere and you decide to pay for a rating then I would stay clear of the ATR. With Air Wales going tits up the opportunities in say the UK and Ireland are limited. Aer Arran have in the past taken people from Sky Blue but they have also failed a number of people during OPC's in the past few years. Fact is that they would prefer to interview you and put you through your paces in the 737-200 and then train you direct knowing what sort of person you are.

If you look at where the jobs are turning up at the moment it is on the A320 and 737 for self funded and non funded alike. Yes there are some jobs in the turbo prop market given that the jet operators are hiring like mad which tends to pull up the experienced TP guys. Outfits like GECAT are placing A320 guys like crazy with the likes of BMI, Air Malta, Aer Lingus and others. These usually come through recommendations and so you will need to impress them. 737 jobs are always available through Ryanair if you are desperate enough but as pointed out they require time on type or worse still if they take you on them you will have to pay for the rating again.

[ICING AOA]

You pay them for the rating so they obviously make some money or at least minimise the loss ie with safety pilots, TRIs and TREs etc.


if you stay more than 3 years at aer arann, then the company will reimbourse you the whole cost of the type rating ;)

[potkettleblack]

Incorrect 50% of the cost paid at year 5. Discount that back to todays money and you will find it is a lot less than half. 20k for an ATR rating is a lot by the way when you can get a 737 or A320 for around the same sort of coin and salaries are a lot higher. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with the ATR as such and I think the likes of Arran would have great flying but the economics just don't stack up.