Jet* Payscale & Conditions

[Go Right Ahead]

Anyone enlightened me on the Payscale and Conditions of Jetstar? Those who have the facts, a comparison between Jet* and Virgin would be appreciated? I have asked around and got different answers.....cheers

[MRS QANTAS]

captain $120000.......FO 65% of

[Cruis'in FL410]

Try doing some easy homework

Jetstar Airways Pilots Agreement 2005 (http://www.airc.gov.au/tracee/agreements/pdf/AG843278.pdf)

Capt = $125,664 + bonus ($7K) + overtime
F/O = 60%

Depending on the home base, some line Captains EBIT around $150K last financial year.

[BankAngle50]

MRS QF. I believe that P2 gets a max of 60% never 65%. Their new all time low eba, even has a provision for a cadet to earn 51%.

Reynolds number fluid dynamics calculations have been applied to the EBA forecasts of these real men of genius. Recrit has been calculated to be mid 2009. This is the transition point where Jet* pilots cost are more dominant than the reward.

[Point0Five]

OK, let's be honest here, who thinks that the figures given in Cruis'in FL410's post are too low?

Seems about right to me when you consider the kind of HECS debt accrued by most university graduates and the time taken to acquire their qualifications. Every professional has a professional liability, don't think that because yours is more immediate (if I crash, everybody will die) it is any less than that of an engineer (if I design this wrong, the building will collapse) or a doctor (if I diagnose this wrong, she will die).

Just my thoughts.

[Dropt McGutz]

What other professions require to you to pass either one or two (age dependent) medicals per year and six or more checks (simulator, route etc) plus have to make quick decisions in an unnatural environment without the possibility of any external help? At least other professions can get a second opinion. What other employer expects you to hand over around $30,000 to pay for your own training once they give you a job? Shouldn't that be an employers responsibility, particuarly with the profits produced and the excessive executive wages in place? The Jetstar fellows don't paid nowhere near enough for the responsibility they hold. :yuk:

[Defenestrator]

Well said Flatulent one. Especially the bit about the high management wages compared to those at the coalface. One can only hope the worm will turn.

[relax737]

Point 0 5, I mostly agree.

I think many of us oversell ourselves. We hold a qualification not dissimilar to an accountant, not a degree, but a tech school equivalent. Yes, yes, some accountants have degrees, but most don't.

It is a special sort of job, no doubt about it, but it's just a job.

In answer Drop's post (and might I say a rather crass nom de plume you use) Who is required to make decisions quickly, in an unnatural environment, etc., The answer is a doctor in an emergency room, infinitely higher qualified than we are, and being paid a fraction of what a QF 747 Captain is paid, much younger without much life experience, etc.

But let's not attempt comparisons because it raises nothing but frustrations (and blood pressures). Try to justify it on work value, and I think we would be hard put to continue to justify the salaries paid to QF and Ansett post 89. I'm sure the industry can afford it, but aircraft are becoming simpler to fly; compare the modern jet airliner of today with one of even twenty years ago, multi GPs nav systems, everything auto, etc. Still some decisions to be made, but a whole lot easier than it was a generation ago.

Besides, if Geoff offers 100K a year for an A330 Capt, he will be swamped by offers. This tells him that people are willing to do it for the offered price.

We could all do what Kaptin M proffered some time back when Jet* kicked off; boycott the company, but that's dreaming.

Entrerprise bargaining is all about an employer making an offer and an employee accepting it, after negotiation if necessary. You can't stop pilots taking employment at whatever they believe is fair for them. Simple.

Defenstrator, I hope the wormk turns as well, but I'm not even 1% hopeful.

I am prepared to say that if Jet* operated Boeings, and they made the offer of 120K for a 777 Capt, I would be back home in a flash; my feet wouldn't touch the ground getting out. There is no better job than flying within Australia, at almost any price.

Finally, pilotless aircraft are being flown round the globe right now, and it's only a matter of time before we have a single pilot, systems/computer expert, the next step, systems operator only, and then pilotless. In my lifetime? I'd say so. We'll go the way of loadmasters, radio operators and navigators...regrettably.

Ever been on a driverless train? Many airports round the world have them. Does your aircraft autoland? The progression to pilotless airlines is inevitable, and the bonus is that it would be safer when one consideres a great percentage of accidents are pilot error.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Good post relax,

It never ceases to amaze me the reasons people use to justify extremely high wages for pilots. It doesn't matter if you hold the fate of planet earth in your hands. If there is a line of people around the building queueing for a job, you ain't going to get a pay rise - and pay will go down. Like it , or lump it - that's how it works.

Management : If management have it so easy and get "huge" pay cheques , why not become a manager? Probably because you enjoy being a pilot.. well accept the pay - that's the financial decision you make to have a job you gain enjoyment out of.

[Enema Bandit's Dad]

Here we go again. Trying to talk down pilots wages. What's the matter with some of you?? Seems like you missed out and there is a smattering of jealousy perhaps? Why not try and talk down everyone's wages? Why should a mate of mine get receive $5 per MINUTE as a solictor? He doesn't have peoples lives in his hands and undergo checks that his job depends on all the time. Some of you lot make me want to puke!! :yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[Howard Hughes]

We'll go the way of loadmasters, radio operators and navigators...regrettably.
I don't think so!

I suspect that there will always be one pilot, technician, systems manager call him/her what you will. I expect that the role will however change, your primary role may not be that of aircraft manipulator, you may be called upon to do other duties, like serve in the cabin, repair on board entertainment sytems, etc, etc...

Unfortunately computers and automated systems still can't be called upon to come up with the unusual ideas, nor have the skills to troubleshoot unexpected problems. Automation is OK provided all possible outcomes can be planned for, this however is not the case at the moment, nor will it be in near future. It is for this reason I expect that pilot's will be around for some time yet!;)

Cheers, HH.
:ok:

PS: Sorry about the thread drift.

[Go Right Ahead]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I wanted to get an idea of the going rate.
IMHO I think pilots have a pretty high stress job, specially the ongoing Checks and medicals and so on. Not to discredit other professionals of course.
But as one post mentioned, if someone is willing to do it for less money then it sets a precedent.
Probably why CEO's get a huge pay packet even if they send the company down the tube.
I guess I would have been a CEO if I didnt enjoying flying so much. Although the money isnt the main attraction to the job, Im not gonna accept peanuts either.

[MRS QANTAS]

I have spent many hours reading threads on this site, and it saddens me to hear the arrogance of some of you pilots that think you are gods gift...For too many years your pays have been way unjustified...For the amount of training involved, over the top...Yes i will agree that many of you out there have done the hard yards flying your early careers for near nothing, but many of you will agree the draw card to the airlines was the over inflated pays...Times are changing and many of you are going to have to start pulling your heads out of your assholes and realise for what you do the pay you use to get was rediculous...And to earn $100000 to $150000 even in todays economics is good money...just not what you think you should be getting..So get with the program and change your attitudes or youll get walked all over...

[Gnadenburg]

MRS Q

By world standards it is not an over inflated wage.

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Gnad:

Keep dreaming mate. Just because your dreams of moving off into the $200k+ jobs isn't going to happen don't blame her. Accept your job for what it is.

Sorry gents / ladies - new years ... not long.. Happy new Years.. may even Gnad get the money he wants :)

anyway.. we aint gonna live foreever as fireworks chickie says.
Enjoy everyone. I hope the best for you all.

[Team Player]

It's you who needs to "pull your head out of your a-hole", MRS Q, and realize that this job is not ONLY about " for what you do".
It is all about the responsibilty we accept, and that you entrust to us, on each and every flight - your life, and/or those of your family.

If you and cookie boy don't believe your miserable backsides are worth a dollar or two, don't start blowing off about airline pilots the next time there's a semi serious prang.
You're only getting what you've paid for ("As ye sew, so shall you reap").

A pilot's experience is based, amongst other things, on the number of hours he has flown.
His employment chances are based on those hours, PLUS the fact that he has demonstrated the ability to make decisions which have NOT ended in an accident.

Cookie boy proudly announced that he was due for an imminent pay rise shortly. Why do YOU think that is, PAF?
Because you'll be better qualified? (The toast burnt only on 1 side, instead of both.:} )

[Pass-A-Frozo]

It's you who needs to "pull your head out of your a-hole", MRS Q, and realize that this job is not ONLY about " for what you do".
It is all about the responsibilty we accept, and that you entrust to us, on each and every flight - your life, and/or those of your family.

If you and cookie boy don't believe your miserable backsides are worth a dollar or two, don't start blowing off about airline pilots the next time there's a semi serious prang.
You're only getting what you've paid for ("As ye sew, so shall you reap").

A pilot's experience is based, amongst other things, on the number of hours he has flown.
His employment chances are based on those hours, PLUS the fact that he has demonstrated the ability to make decisions which have NOT ended in an accident.

Cookie boy proudly announced that he was due for an imminent pay rise shortly. Why do YOU think that is, PAF?
Because you'll be better qualified? (The toast burnt only on 1 side, instead of both. )

oh yes. The danger and power you accept. My lord! What a champion you are!
Wow you really are a legend with those hours you have built up without an accident!
I can't believe you haven't earn't yourself a Distinguished Flying Cross, or Order of Australia! What do I think? What does a man of your skill care?
Oh hang on... you mean there are thousands of pilots in your or my boots ???

What do I think mate? Well I'll let you know. But if I plan to apply for an airline job, I'll make the decision on whether I like their pay and conditions - not whether the likes of you thinks it's undercutting people.

So "Team Player" - what rock did you emerge from?

[The Bunglerat]

I've spent the last few years reading the various arguments from both sides of the fence concerning the pay and conditions on offer from our budget carriers.

It seems that if you fly for a LCC, you are apparently either (a) a professional pilot who is trying to do the best they can and make the most of a position that pays sufficient to get by; or (b) a bottom-dwelling sc*b with no professionalism or ethics of any kind and who is significantly contributing to the downward spiralling conditions within the airline industry.

For the select few of you who currently, or have at some point in their career, enjoyed the stratospheric salary packages you talk about, well lucky for you (and I mean that with no hint of sarcasm). However, it makes my skin crawl when some of you get on your high horse and tear strips off your flying brethren for taking a gig with one of the "dreaded" LCC's. This issue has been done to death, but the fact remains that a job is a job, and whilst I'd love to be earning mega-bucks for flying a piece of high-speed aluminium tubing, the reality is that if you can't find a way to make ends meet and enjoy a comfortable standard of living on a LCC salary, you've got some serious shortcomings in your spending habits and finance management. My father spent his whole working life on a salary that never even scratched the surface of what a F/O earns with a budget airline (don't even mention a Captain's take-home pay)! In the meantime, he still managed to raise a family of three kids and pay off the mortgage along the way. And he didn't complain about his lot in life either.

As for me, never has the point been made more clear than in recent months. I pulled the pin on my previous flying gig (after ten years of doing much the same thing) to make a concerted effort to finally break into the airlines. I decided that I just had to get out of what I was doing, or risk being pigeon-holed for the rest of my life. I've just completed the QF selection process, and in the meantime I've been doing unskilled casual work to tide me over until something happens in that department. And let me say it's been quite a wake-up call in terms of putting things into perspective. For all of you high-&-mighty "I-despise-anyone-who-prostitutes-himself-for-a-low-paying-airline-job-that's-way-beneath-me" types, why not spend a fortnight with me packing crates in a warehouse for only $30 an hour. Whilst you're there, maybe you can ponder over how fortunate any one of us is to be able to work in this industry and get paid for doing what we love. Right now, a gig with DJ or JQ would be a life-changing experience for me - and for the better too, at least compared to what I've earned thus far in my working life. There are so many people in the community earning far less than our Mr. Discount-Airline-Pilot-Guy, so when I hear you all bitch and moan about the so-called paltry conditions of airlines in this country, I just wanna puke. You really could do a lot worse, but you'd obviously have to do a stint in the real world for a little while (like I'm currently doing) to be reminded just how good you've got it - even the folks at DJ and JQ...

[Angle of Attack]

"Real World" "Only $30 per hour!!" Jeez Where do I apply??? 30 bucks an hour?? only? When I was working at a factory job few years back prior to flying I was on $23 an hour... oh yeah that was the double time and a half rate!!! .. $9 an hour cobber!! So if your doing 40 hours per week your on $2400 a fortnight gross?? lol thats almost F/O on lcc salary!! Please forward applicatio form.. :)

[Point0Five]

"His employment chances are based on those hours, PLUS the fact that he has demonstrated the ability to make decisions which have NOT ended in an accident."

So, in summary, remunaration is based on experience without any reference to quality or performance; beyond the absence of absolute failure?

[The Bunglerat]

A of A, $2400 a fortnight would be bloody great - if I were earning it. However by definition, casual work means that I might do 38 hours one week, and only 8 hours the next. The point is: It's only when you find yourself out of the aviation loop that you realise how much it means to be in it. Hell, even if I were bringing home the dollars you suggest, it's still less than a LCC pilot salary (no matter what you say) - and it's ****ty work. This is why I have absolutely no tolerance whatsoever for anyone who insists on dragging down the hard-working professional pilots who are just trying to do their job to the best of their ability - irrespective of what they get paid. And they don't get paid too bad at all from where I stand.

[pakeha-boy]

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost.
He spots a man down below and lowers the ballooom to speak with him.

The balloonist gets close enough to speak with the man on the ground and shouts to him...."Excuse me,but maybe you can help me.I promised my friend I would meet him half an hour ago,but I dont know where I am"

The man on the ground responds,No worries;you are in a hot air balloon hovering about 10 metres above this field.You are located at 26' 04.4 latitude and 80' 09.2 west longitude and drifting south."

"you must be an airline pilot" says the balloonist

"I am,how did you know?" replies the man on the ground

"Well" says the balloonist "everything you have told me is technically correct,but I have no idea what to make of the information you gave me.I am still lost ,so you have done absolutely nothing to help me!"

The man on the ground says "you must be airline managment"

"I am" replies the balloonist,"how did you know"

"Well"; says the man on the ground,"you do not know where you are or where you are going.You have made a promise you cannot keep,and you expect me to solve your problems for you.The fact is that you are in the exact same position you were in before we met,but somehow it is my fault

Mrs Qantas....we are worth every cent we have to scrounge for!!!!