Saudi Arabia commits to Eurofighter Typhoon deal [Archive]

Wee Weasley Welshman

22nd Dec 2005, 14:00

From The Times:

"The first 24 jets to be delivered to the Royal Saudi Air Force will be diverted from an allocation of 89 that had been assigned to the Royal Air Force from the second tranche of the programme. The MoD said that the decision to divert aircraft from the RAF would have no impact on operations.

BAE said in a statement that it welcomed the announcement. Under the agreement, BAE will provide so-called through-life service for the aircraft, as well as training and support to the Saudi Air Force. The company will invest in Saudi companies and transfer some technological expertise to Saudi firms, so that Saudi nationals undertake more of the service work."

Hmm, Tranche 2 airframes going to the desert rather than East Anglia - says a lot. And then a massive transfer of technology and service work to the country that gave birth to the vast bulk of the 911 operational staff.

Am I missing something here?

WWW

BEagle

22nd Dec 2005, 14:17

From The Guardian, Tuesday 27 September 2005 (slightly re-paragraphed, but not amended):

Blair in secret Saudi mission

Expulsions link to £40bn arms deal

David Leigh and Ewen MacAskill

Tony Blair and John Reid, the defence secretary, have been holding secret talks with Saudi Arabia in pursuit of a huge arms deal worth up to £40bn, according to diplomatic sources.
Mr Blair went to Riyadh on July 2, en route to Singapore, where Britain was bidding for the 2012 Olympics. Three weeks later, Mr Reid made a two-day visit, when he sought to persuade Prince Sultan, the crown prince, to re-equip his air force with the Typhoon, the European fighter plane of which the British arms company BAE has the lion's share of manufacturing.

Defence, diplomatic and legal sources say negotiations are stalling because the Saudis are demanding three favours. These are

1. That Britain should expel two anti-Saudi dissidents, Saad al-Faqih and Mohammed al-Masari;

2. That British Airways should resume flights to Riyadh, currently cancelled through terrorism fears;

3. That a corruption investigation implicating the Saudi ruling family and BAE should be dropped. Crown prince Sultan's son-in-law, Prince Turki bin Nasr, is at the centre of a "slush fund" investigation by the Serious Fraud Office.

The Saudis have been trying for years to get their hands on Mr Faqih, who they say was involved in a plot to assassinate the recently enthroned King Abdullah. Mr Faqih, who has asylum, denies support for violence, and privately neither the Foreign Office nor the security services regard him as a danger to Britain. Mr Masari fled Saudi Arabia in 1994, and the Major government made an unsuccessful attempt to exile him to the Caribbean island of Dominica under pressure from BAE.

The Typhoon, currently entering service with the RAF, has a price of more than £45m a plane. Saudi Arabia previously bought a fleet of its predecessor Tornados from Britain in the Al Yamamah arms deal. Mike Turner, the chief executive of BAE, Britain's biggest arms company, was quoted in Flight International magazine on June 21, just before Mr Blair's Riyadh trip, saying: "The objective is to get the Typhoon into Saudi Arabia. We've had £43bn from Al Yamamah over the last 20 years and there could be another £40bn."

There is concern within the Foreign Office at the apparent partiality of No 10 to BAE's commercial interests. Jonathan Powell, Mr Blair's chief of staff, and his brother Charles, Lady Thatcher's former adviser and now a BAE consultant, are believed to be in favour of the deal.

So - did the Saudis get these conditions?

soddim

22nd Dec 2005, 15:14

If the Typhoo contract gets signed it will be time for a new slush fund.

Zoom

22nd Dec 2005, 17:00

Anyone know if Prince Sultan is the one who was on 96 Entry at Cranners?

backseatjock

22nd Dec 2005, 17:33

Soddim: There is no slush fund and there is no evidence at all to support The Guardian's continuous allegations of impropriety against BAE. Never has been!

So, some of the company's execs have been questioned in the course of the SFO enquiry. You would expect that. Even The Guardian concedes all were released without charge. That leaves us with a number of people who have not committed a crime!

What point is The Guardian trying to make,? Other than to perhaps use its pages to promote the very personal and perhaps political views of an individual journalist.

The Saudi preference is for best possible kit - in all areas of its defence forces. In that respect, Typhoon fits the mould perfectly.

BEagle

22nd Dec 2005, 17:40

The chap on 96 Entry was Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud, whereas the Crown Prince referred to in the Guardian article is Crown Prince Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud.

I once watched Bandar doing doughnuts on the JMPG car park in his black DB6. Nice chap, as I recall.

Soddim: There is no slush fund and there is no evidence at all to support The Guardian's continuous allegations of impropriety against BAE. Never has been!

No. Of course not. Absolutely.....:rolleyes:

SSOT

22nd Dec 2005, 18:47

Beagle, once you eliminate the identikit Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud etc. the two names don't really mean anything. What's left ie. Prince Bandar bin vs. Crown Prince doesn't illuminate matters.

Echo 5

22nd Dec 2005, 19:06

SSOT,

" The chap on 96 Entry was Prince Bandar bin Sultan bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud, whereas the Crown Prince referred to in the Guardian article is Crown Prince Sultan Bin Abdul Aziz Al-Saud "

Change the text to read

" The chap on 96 Entry was Prince Bandar son of Sultan son of Abdul Aziz Al-Saud whereas the Crown Prince referred to in the Guardian article is Crown Prince Sultan son of Abdul Aziz Al-Saud "

If I've got it right, and I think I have then I think you will find that Bandar is Sultan's son.

Of course there is always the (faint) chance that I could be wrong.:D

Soddim,

As a former resident of the Magic Kingdom perhaps you could confirm my interpretation of the family tree of the House of Al Saud.

mutt

22nd Dec 2005, 20:01

Prince Bandar son of Sultan son of Abdul-Aziz Al Saud...

Sultan was recently promoted from Prince to Crown Prince following the death of King Fahd.

Mutt

jindabyne

22nd Dec 2005, 21:41

So then chaps, what are you implying?

soddim

22nd Dec 2005, 22:45

backseatjock,

Don't know what you are smoking old chap but if you are a company spokesman you're doing a fine job.

As for the Saudis buying the best kit - they wouldn't know it if you gave it to them.

Believe me, I know.

Echo 5

23rd Dec 2005, 05:27

jindabyne,

Personally, I am implying nothing. Just trying to explain the possible lineage of the two gentlemen in response to a previous post. :cool:

jindabyne

23rd Dec 2005, 09:38

Echo

Sorry. My inadequately-worded comment was not directed at your good self. Quite why people choose to mock from the outset such a massively successful (potentially) UK deal which will benefit the taxpayer, industry, and yes, the RAF, is beyond my simple understanding. Slush fund? Saudi procurement capability? I care not.

Ewan Whosearmy

23rd Dec 2005, 10:29

Quite why people choose to mock from the outset such a massively successful (potentially) UK deal which will benefit the taxpayer, industry, and yes, the RAF, is beyond my simple understanding. Slush fund? Saudi procurement capability? I care not.

Perhaps it's because some people have morals and are prepared to make them known?

jindabyne

23rd Dec 2005, 10:54

Ewan

Perhaps. But I wouldn't apply such rhetoric to my implied targets!

soddim

23rd Dec 2005, 12:47

jindabyne,

But you would give the Saudis the benefit of any doubt?

Echo 5

23rd Dec 2005, 16:10

Ewan Whosearmy ,

" Perhaps it's because some people have morals and are prepared to make them known? "

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to why the sale of Typhoon to the RSAF is a moral issue.

backseatjock

23rd Dec 2005, 17:25

Soddim: Smoking nothing. Am just one of those old fashioned types who believes that people (and companies) should be seen as innocent until proved guilty.

It's too easy to sling around accusations, especially if you happen to be a journalist, without any real foundation or hard evidence. The Guardian has been rolling out stuff like this for years.

Echo makes the point, why should selling Typhoon to RSAF be a moral issue. Totally agree. Re Saudi capabilities and knowing what a good piece of kit is - I think you will find the knowledge base in KSA is improving considerably.

DaveO'Leary

23rd Dec 2005, 17:35

Boring boring boring....... Lets chat the pros and consF22VF18....

Nice photo of the F22..........Air combat, who wins?....
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b9/dazdaz1/F22.jpg

Echo 5

23rd Dec 2005, 17:55

Sorry Dave, you're off thread. There must be another thread somewhere that covers Spam products. We're talking Typhoon here.

Ewan Whosearmy,

We are waiting to be enlightened. :D

backseatjock

23rd Dec 2005, 18:43

Dave: F-22 = superb capability at an unaffordable price (for almost everyone). I can't see export prospects, or ambitions, being high. And if it ever is exported, what technologies will an export customer have deleted from the spec!!

Even John Jumper acknowledged Typhoon to be one of the best aircraft he had ever flown!

RileyDove

23rd Dec 2005, 19:58

Backseatjock - Interesting that journalists can sling accusations - however when they are from Whitehall like the infamous '45 minutes' claim on firing chemical weapons at us or the other contents of the 'Doggy Dosier' are the journalists still at fault?

PPRuNeUser0139

23rd Dec 2005, 20:22

We don't pay bribes, we pay commission.

What's the difference..?

Timing.

What's the difference when it's steaming gently in your Swiss bank account?

engineer(retard)

24th Dec 2005, 08:56

'Doggy Dosier' - That'll be the White House Xmas video then.

retard

backseatjock

24th Dec 2005, 09:20

RileyDove: Fair point, but no excuse for either IMHO.

jwcook

25th Dec 2005, 09:35

see here http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=75221&d=25&m=12&y=2005

the quote is

"In reply to another question on the jets deal with Britain, Prince Sultan said the Kingdom will purchase over 200 Eurofighter Typhoon aircraft. “We shall disclose the details by March next,” he added."

Bloody hell 200!!!

Cheers

Echo 5

25th Dec 2005, 09:58

" Bloody hell 200!!! "

That's a lot of £££££££££££££'s. BAe should be able to cover the £2.4 billion black hole in the employees pension fund quite easily from these earnings.;)

Daysleeper

25th Dec 2005, 09:59

Any bets on whether theirs will have a working gun and ammunition :hmm:

Jobza Guddun

25th Dec 2005, 10:11

Any bets on whether theirs will have a working gun and ammunition

Well surely that order for 200 (can't see their requirement myself....) should bring the unit price down far enough for ours to have the whole shebang too, no? Maybe not.

Rakshasa

25th Dec 2005, 20:03

Probably wind up being mostly from 'our' 200. ;)

Lima Juliet

25th Dec 2005, 23:12

Before this deal was officially announced there were plans being worked on to slip the AD Tornado's OSD to 2011 - I guess Leuchars will keep its navs for a while longer...

...At least we'll get Tranche 3 jets instead of Tranche 2:ok:

Daysleeper

26th Dec 2005, 07:32

At least we'll get Tranche 3 jets instead of Tranche 2

Nah they'll do something stupid like order more T2 jets for us instead of just going to T3 wait a moment

the MoD stresses that the RAF will receive additional Tranche 2 airframes

Father Jack Hackett

26th Dec 2005, 15:01

"It is thought that up to 72 Typhoon jets will be delivered to the kingdom from 2008...."

Is it just me who is a little dubious of there still being a Kingdom of Saudi Arabia in 2008? Not sure Typhoon would sit well in Uncle Osama's future Orbat......

soddim

27th Dec 2005, 23:36

This article indicates that some reports might be a little optimistic.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1430476&C=airwar

So are they simply trading in the ADVs or replacing the F5s as well?

jwcook

28th Dec 2005, 08:26

Even if its half of that figure... its still a big order.

You could out buy the UK's Total order of 232 typhoons for a littltle over US$16B.

thats some serious money!!!

soddim

28th Dec 2005, 13:42

But what figure are we talking about?

jindabyne

28th Dec 2005, 14:09

There is no contract as yet: therefore no public pricing details exist. ORAC's figure is, IMHO, closer to the mark, given the numbers being quoted. But it all depends on many factors - such as actual numbers ordered, delivery profiles, further options, tranche specs, thro' life support requirements etc etc. Think back to the previous Al Yamamahs, and whichever way you skin it, the deal is rather BIG.

5206

28th Dec 2005, 15:01

As this is a UK - Saudi deal, not EF - Saudi, whose jets are they going to get? How is it going to affect our front line? When the Al Yamamah deal kicked off in earnest, spares to the UK Sqns suffered because the Saudis had first shout.

5206

soddim

28th Dec 2005, 18:58

Yes, but on the plus side, those items not working too well or those in need of rapid development will get money thrown at them if required to meet export contracts.

I suspect the Stage 1 radar for the F3 (the first one that sort of worked) would have come very much later had it not been essential to meet the Saudi buy.

psy clops

29th Dec 2005, 01:44

So are they simply trading in the ADVs or replacing the F5s as well?Having had a chat to a couple of local drivers (airframe) around the oasis yesterday, they seem to think that there will be hundreds of Typhoons arriving. The local opinion (at least where I am) is that the new aircraft will not replace any existing spam kit.

Notwithstanding this 'straight from the camel's mouth' information, remember that nothing we hear in Kingdom is kosher :p

ORAC

29th Dec 2005, 08:08

Defence News: Saudi Crown Prince Confirms Typhoon Deal With U.K.

Saudi Crown Prince Sultan Bin Abdulaziz confirmed on Dec. 26 that a memo of understanding (MOU) has been signed with the United Kingdom for the purchase of an undisclosed number of Eurofighter Typhoon jets. “We will buy the Typhoon aircraft from Britain,” said Sultan, who also is Saudi Arabia’s defense minister. “Britain ... has agreed to take away from us all our used aircraft whether they are American- or British-built, and they number about 200 planes.”....... The Air Force has some 80 aging Northrop Grumman F-5 Tiger II jets, 107 BAE SYSTEMS Tornado fighters and 170 F-15S fighters.

However, Sultan denied all press reports regarding the value of the deal. The official Saudi Press Agency (SPA) had claimed last week that the value of the British Typhoon deal was far less than the reported figure of $70 billion. “The reported news of an armament deal valued at over $70 billion between the kingdom and Britain is not correct,” the SPA reported Dec. 22, quoting a Defense Ministry official.......

“The Saudi Command had decided some time ago to adopt a policy that makes it a requirement for any party interested in selling defense systems to the kingdom to help it dispose of its old systems,” said a senior Saudi military official who asked not to be named. The official pointed out that Saudi leaders had placed such a condition on parties that offered to replace the kingdom’s 290 AMX-30 main battle tanks built by France’s GIAT. He declined to elaborate.

raytofclimb

29th Dec 2005, 10:16

Wicked. Who cares about the HUUGE delay to getting Typhoon.

If we take all their jets on part ex, every F3 mate can have at least an F-15 plus a spare EACH, and an F-5 to do doggers on weekends with red stars on fins and helmets.

"S**t......... MiG 29....... No-one's been this close before......"

Any takers for the 107 sand blasted FMk2.5 semi-active shooters, or the dozen front-line fighters we currently field?

Ray.

Archimedes

31st Dec 2005, 17:54

Could I request clarification of a point, please?

There seem to be two theories at work about how this effects the RAF's Typhoon purchase.

The first is that the Saudi order for 24 means that the RAF will receive 65 rather than 89 Tranche 2 aircraft, with the statement that the 24 'lost' airframes being replaced later on down the line being a nice bit of spin.

The second theory is that the contract means that it's impossible for the MoD to reduce the RAF's order in this way - that unless the 24 Tranche 2 airframes signed up for are replaced by others built later all sorts of contractual issues (e.g. over workshare) crop up.

Without straying into the realms of commerical-in-confidence, etc, does anyone know which is correct?

jwcook

1st Jan 2006, 08:55

The 24 refered to is the production slots, the RAF will still receive the 89, but the first 24 Saudi aircraft will be made when the RAF aircraft would have been made, the RAF Aircraft then get placed into of the production run where they can (usually towards the end).

There is quite a bit of slack in the 4 national assembley lines, but there are problems with long lead items, if you want a quick delivery then swapping production slots for export is an excellent way delivering at short notice.

Given sufficent time (18 months) there can be a large increase in production per month to fulfil the biggest export orders.

Cheers

Archimedes

1st Jan 2006, 20:27

jwc,

Thank you - I was, though, trying (but failing) to ask a slightly different question.

It is whether or not the rumours that giving these 24 slots to the Saudis provides the MoD with a cunning means of reducing the buy for the aircraft without having to utter the words 'cancel' or 'we don't need as many as we first...' are based on a misunderstanding.

As I understood it (and I think from something posted here on Pprune) the contract means that the MoD cannot do this because it would raise issues of workshare and thus we are obliged to take 89 Tranche 2 aircraft.

There are a number of commentators ('senior RAF sources' in most papers...) suggesting that the MoD has found a way of dropping the overall buy for the RAF without incurring any penalty in the form of renegotiation of the workshare, etc, and that the statement that the full buy of 89 Tranche 2 aircraft would go ahead is simply a smokescreen to disguise another cutback.

I've seen this repeated several times, and I'm beginning to wonder if my perception that - without renegotiation - the contract prevents the supposed MoD course of action outlined by these 'experts' is in fact erroneous.

soddim

1st Jan 2006, 21:55

Perhaps the fact that it is a UK Government to Saudi contract allows the MOD to 'buy' some of its' airframes for use not by the RAF but by the RSAF.

ORAC

2nd Jan 2006, 07:59

DID: ......Given the Eurofighter's current optimization for an air-air role and the continued usefulness of Saudi Arabia's Tornado IDS strike aircraft, observers are urged to be cautious about assuming that all Royal Saudi Air Force Tornados will be withdrawn from service as the Eurofighters arrive. The UK Ministry of Defence release said simply: "Under the terms of the signed document Typhoon aircraft will replace Tornado Air Defence Variant aircraft and others currently in service with the RSAF." Note the lack of specificity beyond the Tornado F3s.

Saudi Arabia also has 72 F-15S downgraded Strike Eagle variants delivered under the Peace Sun IX contracts that could take over the Tornado IDS' strike role, but this would reduce the kingdom's current strike capabilities.

The Eurofighters could serve at least as well as replacements for the 24 Tornado ADVs of 29 Squadron, the elderly F-5/RF-5 Tiger IIs of 17 Squadron near Jeddah, and the 62 American F-15 C/D Eagle air superiority fighters acquired during the 1980s......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Which makes a total of about 200 jets. Then, in the Herald, Dec 30th:

SAUDI Arabia plans to buy more than 200 Eurofighter Typhoon jets from the UK in a deal worth up to £40bn including spares, maintenance and training over the next 20 years, The Herald has learned.......

ARINC

2nd Jan 2006, 14:44

I can't help but comment on this....

Having seen up close for 2 years exactly how the RSAF operate Tornado, It seems like Typhoon is just another expensive toy the RSAF can add to the inventory.

A few interesting facts regarding current toys.

1. Not one Saudi IDS made it to the Tanker let alone the target in the first Gulf war.

2. At least one crew ejected South ! of Dhahran short of fuel.

3. Several Pilots were quietly removed, to one degree or another, due to LMF !

4. Sqn commanders actually to big to get into the aircraft !

5. Aircraft abonded by crew at the end of the active, fully armed and live exiting cockpit by using a ladder from a passing non Sqn. source !

6. Maintenance levels of IDS in particular, carried out solely by RSAF personnel (uncharitably known as the dark side), is to put it mildly a joke. On a superficial level these aircraft leak all and any fluids they care to put in them. Systems availability can only be guessed at.

7. I'll never forget the nervous small talk as I strapped in many expat Navs tasked on training sorties with less than current RSAF pilots, who crew in thus.. G vest check, Maps check, Seat pins check, worry beads check ! I kid you not.:{

I could go on..but suffice to say any meaningful talk of RSAF fast jet assets is a complete waste of time. They cannot operate them.

Edit

I will concede my comments don't include the F15's, It did seem to me these were almost exclusively expat maintained. And certainly not flown at night !

ORAC

2nd Jan 2006, 15:40

Who cares what they do with them after they've bought them? :confused:

LateArmLive

2nd Jan 2006, 15:57

Who cares? Anyone who gets in the way by accident!

ZH875

2nd Jan 2006, 16:00

Who cares what they do with them after they've bought them? :confused:Any of the four nations that need spares that are in short supply.

soddim

2nd Jan 2006, 16:11

If ARINC's observations still apply it looks like the future of BAE Systems assistance in Saudi is assured for a long time to come!

Pontius Navigator

3rd Jan 2006, 08:51

ARCINC

At least one of your comments can't be right:

<<1. Not one Saudi IDS made it to the Tanker let alone the target in the first Gulf war.>>

I have a clear recollection of a Saudi prince being interviewed on TV after the first Saudi mission in a Tornado. Very smart he was. Not a hair out of place and such skin. His face had recovered from the oxygen mask clamp by the time he had descended the ladder.:}

ORAC

3rd Jan 2006, 09:07

Washington_Irving

3rd Jan 2006, 10:41

So, from a survey of, erm, one we can estimate that the percentage of Floppies that can find a tanker is around 33.3%, providing that they have over 1000hrs on type.

Great. :}

ORAC

3rd Jan 2006, 10:49

As opposed to the Italians who launched 8, of which only one managed to take fuel and press to the target - and was shot down. From which you would infer that?....... ;)

Gainesy

3rd Jan 2006, 12:25

This is from a USAF F-15 chap on secondment to the RSAF:

Okay, here's a Saudi story from a guy who is currently flying with them, got it a couple weeks ago -
----------------
On the flying front, Saudi S-model crew has UTL A failure, decides to take cable. Lands well past cable (about the same distance as Seymour’s). Decides to stay on runway and take departure end. Never uses any braking (aero/emer/nothing) and takes dep end at nearly 120 knots. Drags it nearly past the overrun. Not a word spoken in jet for last 5 minutes of flight.

Saudi demonstration team lines up for 8-ship deployment (2+2+2+2 departure :15 second spacing). 1st two ship, uneventful. 2nd two ship, one gets airborne, one has problem, does way high speed abort, then punches out at end of runway. 3rd two ship decides 15 seconds is way too much and does about a 5 second spacing departure and high speed aborts behind wreckage (one more ejection apparently for mutual support). Last two ship again decides spacing too much and does high speed abort through wreckage. Remaining airborne 3 ship decides now to *land back on the single runway* to see how the bros are doing. FOD all quads. Demo team now grounded.

C-model starts/taxies/makes it through arming, with door 3R still propped open. Wingman finally notices while lining up for form T/O.

I finally got to fly last month. Second sortie (no-**** Blue vs Blue where the goal apparently is to keep aborting until Bingo) I say f**k this and press to merge. End up gunning the King’s son. In debrief he said my shot was not valid. I asked if he saw the tape. He says “No, but didn’t you here my terminate for gas call a minute earlier?” to which I replied “well, why were you still putting out flares then?”. He’s not happy with me.

------
Full thread (and some other interesting USAF stuff) is at:
http://www.dynamictruth.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/1/t/003869.html

soddim

3rd Jan 2006, 14:35

Sounds like the USAF F-15 guy is heading for an exit only visa if he continues to perform like that!

ARINC

3rd Jan 2006, 14:53

Hmmm, quick search, Gulf War, day one.

"RSAF No 7 Squadron with GR1 Tornado, Commanded by LtCol Saeed - Saudi Flak-Suppression flight went 15 minutes ahead of a UK package attacking an Iraqi Airfield Complex with 3 parallel runways. LtCol Sultan, a former F-15 pilot and 1st 1000 hr Tornado pilot, pressed on alone from a flight of three after the others missed tankers."

I would suggest your sources are somewhat suspect....

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/Day-1.htm

More romantic fiction than science fiction :ugh:

Edited for the sake of fairness...

They weren't all complete W****ers so I suppose it's possible 1 made it through. and frankly rather him than me. I would also add that my experience is somewhat embittered by the fact The RAF were losing crews left right and center, and the guys we were supposed to be fighting for (amongst others) were nowhere to be seen.

insty66

3rd Jan 2006, 16:50

This is way of topic but..........
ARINC
When I was at Dharhan 88/89 the F15 were maintained soley by the Saudis.
GR and F3 Tonkas were BAEs with trainee Saudis for educating (entertaining :ok: ).
The whole thing strikes me as a very clever way to keep British jobs and oil safe for a long time yet! and of course deprive the RAF of spares and aircraft for a while longer. c/f the introduction of GR1 and F3.

RileyDove

3rd Jan 2006, 21:36

My friend went to Saudi a few months before the war. Allegedly quite a number of the Royal Saudi Airforce went on unplanned leave when the war started. Luckily for my friend the retention bonus for staying with BAe was quite large and it was seen as politically expedient for the RSAF to be able to operate the Tornado's.
In fairness to the Saudi's - I don't think the current U.K government is aware of the Typhoon's capability or indeed bothered ! They can see barrels of oil which in a increasingly jittery world is worth far more than jets which they can buy at some stage in the future.

tgarden

24th Jan 2006, 11:44

This was the exchange in the Lords yesterday:
Lord Garden asked Her Majesty's Government:
What effect the sale to Saudi Arabia of Eurofighter Typhoon and associated training support will have on the planned dates for Royal Air Force operational declarations.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Defence (Lord Drayson): My Lords, detailed negotiations for the sale of Typhoon aircraft to Saudi Arabia are ongoing and commercially sensitive. However, we do not expect the sale of Typhoon aircraft to the Royal Saudi Air Force to alter Typhoon's operational employment date with the RAF, which is planned for later this decade.
Lord Garden: My Lords, I am most grateful to the Minister for that reassurance. After the delays of the entry into service of Eurofighter Typhoon, I am slightly surprised to discover that 48 are in the shed, available for rapid delivery to Saudi Arabia, but let us assume that it is true. What is the Minister going to do about the necessary pilots for training the Saudis? Pilots currently cost £6 million apiece, according to the NAO. Will BAE Systems contribute to the MoD budget to provide more pilots?
Lord Drayson: My Lords, as I said, the details relating to the understanding are commercially sensitive and ongoing. None the less, we plan to have sufficient trained aircrew to support our requirement for 80 fast jets on operations and have the funding to do so