CTAF Procedures when TWR Closes

[one25six]

This specifically refers to CG, and mostly to Airline RPT aircraft.

What I really want to know is what your company requirements are for descent in to CG when the TWR is off duty.

At 2200 local the Z ATI will normally be recorded - reclassifying C at 3500 and BLW to G.

In G, radar descent can not be assigned even though it can in C - the argument goes that because it is G ATC can no longer give a tracking instruction to ensure the aircraft remains in the appropriate RLSALT segment. (Bearing in mind it may very well be a CG APP rated controller handling the aircraft up to about 2300 local - after that it may only be a BN APP rated controller until 0600 local.)

So the question is - how will you as the PIC plan the descent from your route clearance? It is a worthwhile question - and not as obvious as I originally thought - this conclusion I draw from watching a 'lot' of interesting interpretations.

Document to refer to are the 14 and 32 STARS and the MSA and MDA for the various instrument approaches - as well as the GPS/DME ARR.

Remember - below 4000 ATC can not descend you - but must separate you with other traffic until you pass 3500FT if there are other arrivals and departures.

Also - would you be expected to be issued a STAR by ATC? Would you accept a STAR issued by ATC?

[one25six]

Link to Charts (http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/publications/current/dap/AeroProcChartsTOC.htm#G)

[Ex Douglas Driver]

My understanding is that STARs are assigned primarily for sequencing traffic easily and are primarily an ATC tool, but there is nothing to stop them being used when OCTA by a pilot. They provide terrain clearance and terminate at a fix, allowing an onwards instrument approach or visual segment.

In the same way that you would nominate the approach to be flown if there are segments in and out of controlled airspace, nominate the STAR you'd like to fly. I wouldn't expect ATC to give a direct clearance for a full STAR that terminates OCTA because ultimately you're responsible for separation at the end of it(perhaps a bit of "helpful suggestion" about what they could see working), however they should provide separation while still in CTA.

ATC will just give you a clearance for descent clear of controlled airspace, once their separation responsibilities have been met and OCTA traffic passed. It's up to you to provide terrain separation from here on in. They can't assign an altitude below the radar lowest safe, the applicable MSA or the bottom of the CTA. I can't see where you get their minimum descent altitude of 4000ft.

As for CG, it appears that the most expeditious method for a achieving a straight in approach at night is the instrument approach (perhaps preceeded by a STAR), due to the high sector/10 nm MSA not giving a stable final descent as you hit the applicable circling distance. There's nothing stopping you from positioning just east of the overhead during descent to circling minima and completing 4 legs of the circuit.

[one25six]

Ex-Douglas Driver,

I agree with your overall assessment.

The four legs of the circuit would not comply with the NAP however, but that is by the by.

The runway aligned non-precision approach (VD) is the most efficient in my view.

What I am therefore most surprised by is the number of aircraft electing to do the Visual STAR.

Should the pilot nominate the intended runway whilst still in CTA?
I think so because the tracking varies - there aircraft separation has to be applied.

The 4000FT is not an MDA as such, but is the minimum assignable by ATC until cleared to leave and stems from fact that the control service terminates leaving 4000.

[Uncommon Sense]

Looks like not too much in the way of company policy on this one.

[one25six]

And BTW - no, you cant get a clearance in to C when you are pointed a jet opposite direction at the base of CTA flying in for the reciprocal (downwind)runway!

[Thumbs up]

Good Question
On the late evening flights SY to CG,we're most of the time given direct tracking to ROONY which gives us no defined LSALT. Therefore we've been using Grid MORA till we can get within the 25 mile MSA and where ATC let you go (4000'),then using a 32 or 14 VOR/DME approach in full.
Flying a 32 VOR/DME to a circuit height,then conducting Three legs of a 14circuit is not allowed under CG noise abatment requirements and a 14 Roony Arrival leaves you to high (3000') at Indee for a visual approach,hence having the only option (in my opinion) of conducting the full 14 VOR/DME.

Thumbs:ok: :ok:

[one25six]

Thumbs Up

If you assess 32 as the required RWY, request the 32 GREAV STAR - this will set you up for the 32RNAV and has published LSALTS to the IAF. Or even just ask for DCT GREAV. 4000 is assignable by ATC leaving you plenty of miles to get down.

The best option for 14 is either the 14 GREAV STAR (14VD) or DCT CG and join the 14VD from over the top (quicker).

But the Visual STARS are a can of worms.