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View Full Version : CR Airways getting 737/787's!!


Peak Tram Driver
19th Dec 2005, 19:27
:ok:

Good times ahead for CR!

DATE:19/12/05
SOURCE:Flight International
HK's CR Airways to order 787s, 737s with help from Hainan
Flight International Online news 10:00GMT: China’s fourth largest carrier Hainan Airlines is about to take over fledgling Hong Kong carrier CR Airways and use its traffic rights to launch new services with newly acquired Boeing 737-800s and later Boeing 787s.

On 20 December CR Airways will hold a signing ceremony with Boeing in Hong Kong to announce an order for 737-800s and 787s, according to a CR Airways invitation to the event. The invitation and a CR Airways official decline to disclose how many aircraft CR Airways will order.

But some of the CR Airways 737-800s will be aircraft Hainan Airlines ordered earlier and which are switching to CR Airways, according to the CR Airways official, who wishes to remain anonymous.

The Hong Kong carrier is taking over some Hainan 737-800s so it can get aircraft sooner and launch new services to mainland China and other countries in Asia quickly. “We will be competing directly against Cathay Pacific Airways and Dragonair,” says the official.

Hainan Airlines’ takeover of CR Airways has yet to be completed but the two sides are “working on the transaction” and once completed CR Airways and Hainan Airlines will be re-branded Grand China Air, adds the official.

A source at CR Airways told ATI last month that Hainan Airlines Group chairman and president Chen Feng had become chairman of CR Airways. But at that time CR Airways officials denied a Hainan Airlines takeover was imminent.

Hainan Airlines has, for some time, been seeking to expand internationally but its efforts have been hampered by the fact it is based in southern China’s Hainan Island, a relatively remote part of China with little demand for international connections.

It also has looked to make Beijing its international hub but the move to takeover CR Airways means Hong Kong may become its main international hub.

CR Airways currently operates two Bombardier CRJ200s and consummated a deal earlier this year to purchase two Bombardier CRJ700s. It currently operates from Hong Kong to six cities in China as well as to three cities in the Philippines.

Hong Kong’s South China Morning Post newspaper recently reported that CR Airways has been applying for traffic rights to other countries in Asia.

LEITHEN FRANCIS / SINGAPORE

petitfromage
20th Dec 2005, 00:48
Goodnews for the chaps at CR Airways. Ive met a few in the pub, very nice bunch, working for peanuts sadly........(of course if your wife works for CX, it works out OK!)

Goodluck to them.

You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see that Hainan Island is going to boom hugely over the next decade; being 'consumed' by Hainan Airlines is most likely a good thing.

As for gaining traffic rights by buying a smaller carrier.......great idea too! More of that to follow very soon I think
;)

Dan Winterland
20th Dec 2005, 01:31
However, the SCMP also points out that if Hainan continue with their purchase of 60% of CR, CR would cease to be a Hong Kong carrier and will forfeit a lot of the routes they have rights to out of Hong Kong. It is pointed out that this may just be an exercise in reducing the mainland purchase tax on the aircraft already ordered.

junior_man
3rd Jan 2006, 03:32
Hainan also 18% owned by George Soros. US based money trader, also funded the startup of Jet Blue. He isn't too popular in some places as it relates to Asian Econaomic crisis in late 90's

404 Titan
3rd Jan 2006, 08:27
Dan Winterland

You may be right but it must also be pointed out that this can be circumvented by setting up a shelf company in Hong Kong and letting them buy CR. If there are any legal eagles out there they may want to shed some light if this is actually possible in Hong Kong?:hmm:

alangirvan
3rd Jan 2006, 11:21
Has anyone seen a report from Associated Press saying that Hainan Airways are planning to operate a non stop service between China and Boston? ( Chinese city not specified). The report quotes the Mayor of Boston.


Looking at Hainan's current fleet, they do not seem to have aircraft at the moment that would do Boston to China non stop. I suppose if they want 777s Boeing will find some for them. The report does say start by 'years end', which I take to be this year.

I thought a few years ago when American Airlines were planning a Boston-Tokyo service they said the runway at Boston might cause some restrictions on longer flights.

Airline to Offer Boston-China Flights

From Associated Press
January 02, 2006 2:24 PM EST

BOSTON - Hainan Airlines will offer the first direct flights between Boston and China, officials here said Monday.

The deal between Hainan and the Massachusetts Port Authority, which operates Logan International Airport, was announced by Mayor Thomas Menino during his fourth-term inauguration speech.

It will be the first nonstop service between China and the United States for the low-cost carrier.

The ag reement, which still needs Federal Aviation Administration approval, calls for cargo service to begin this summer, with passenger flights to start by year's end.

Hainan is China's fourth-largest airline and is in the process of changing its name to Grand China Airline.

dpamember
5th Jan 2006, 02:54
CR Airways are hiring B737-800NG Pilots!

Check out Flight International, they've placed an ad to hire TRE/CAPT/FO for their new B737-800s!

404 Titan
5th Jan 2006, 07:22
dpamember

I don't doubt the add but I find it quite amazing that they are already advertising for B738 pilots considering that there isn't an order for any aircraft yet, just a Memorandum of Understanding with Boeing. Not to mention the possible implications of CR being 60% owned by a foreign carrier. My guess is this may play out in the courts for years with the possible outcome that CR looses all the rights to routes they have built up as a HK carrier.

dpamember
5th Jan 2006, 10:29
404

<P>Due to further expansion, CR Airways based in Hong Kong, invites applications from suitably qualified TRE/IREs, Captains and Co-pilots to operate a new fleet of B737-800NG aircraft throughout the Asia Region. Candidates will ideally have extensive background in the airline industry, be highly motivated, self disciplined and have the ability to mix and integrate into a multi-cultural working environment.

Minimum Requirements:
• (TRE/IREs and Captains) Minimum 4000 hours total flight time, with 2500 in command. Hold a Hong Kong ATPL(A) or equivalent ICAO License with Class 1 medical.
• (Co-pilots) A minimum 1500 hours total flight time. Hold a Hong Kong CPL(A) (frozen ATPL) or equivalent ICAO License with Class 1 medical.
• Only short listed candidates will be contacted.
• Applicants should be available to relocate to Hong Kong at short notice.

Candidates should submit their CV/Resumes by fax or e-mail to the (Personal Assistant to DFO) at the following number or e-mail address:

Fax: 22153028
E-mail: <A href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A> </P>
To view the advertisers contact details click here.


link : http://www.flightinternational.com/Jobs/2006/01/03/1502283/B737-800NG+Pilots.html


Interesting to see how it turns out!!

frogone
5th Jan 2006, 11:08
Does anyone know what sort of deal CR are offering for Capts & FOs on the 737-800?

IR

404 Titan
5th Jan 2006, 16:58
dpamember

As I said I don't doubt the add. I am just very surprised that they are advertising so soon. Maybe they are just feeling the waters to see who and what is out there. Mind you with such low experience levels that they are looking for they will probably be inundated with applicants.

Karunch
6th Jan 2006, 04:12
May well find CR get some of Hainan's existing 737's well before their Ng's come off the line, hence the advertisement. Probably spells the end for some of KA's more marginal routes.

jumpy737
6th Jan 2006, 04:33
Anyone know what the terms and conditions are offered on the -800?:cool:

chinapilot223
6th Jan 2006, 17:58
I know a guy who is flying for Hainan. It is a little difficult to figure out exactly what the entire picture at Hainan is. It goes something like this.....................

Several years ago, Hainan Air Group was created (2001-2002?). HNA Group buys major interests in Xinhua, Shanxi, Chang An and Hainan. HNA Group also owns Yangtze River Express (Cargo and maybe PAX)) and Deer Jet (Charter). 10 years ago George Soros invests 25 million in Hainan. Last year Soros invests another 25 million.

Hainan Aircraft are all painted the same, White with blue tail (and logo on tail). However, the name on the aircraft depends on which airline it belongs (ed) to. Recent Hainan 800's have been delivered with Shanxi and Chang An painted on them.

Now comes CR Airways and the BIG Boeing order. HNA Group is (or has) buying 60-70 % of CR Airways. The HNA Group name will soon change to "Grand China Air" and will be a Hong Kong listed stock. This should preserve CR Airways awarded routes.

My friend believes future and present 800's will be based in Hong Kong VERY soon.

The Chinese aviation idustry is still a regulated market. The government controls routes AND airfares. The private startups like Okay, Spring and United Eagle are finding it difficult to operate low cost in a regulated market. Okay has already acknowledged this.

My friend believes HNA Group (Grand China Air) is a big favorate with the Chinese government and will continue to grow. Currently Hainan is the 4th largest Chinese Carrier. The AP is reporting a story that Hainan will fly Beijing to Boston this year. Cargo by summer and Pax by years end.

So.................................. if all this comes together you will see a new Chinese Airline called Grand China Air. They will operate from mainland China and Hong Kong. They will fly domestic and international. They will take delivery of the new B-787 and continue to acquire B737's. Hainan also has some A319's. The 319's were acquired in order to fly to a high altitude airport in China.

Remember, this is the airline industry. Some of what I say here has already happened..................... the other stuff may or may not happen.

StressFree
7th Jan 2006, 17:47
The package for working for CR on their 737's is hard to come by......

Anyone got any ideas what a 737-NG TRE could expect? Any details very much appreciated.

The Puzzler
8th Jan 2006, 07:16
Puzzle me this....

Hey Stressfree, happy new year!! :) Why not submit an application, then you can let me know as well! :cool: If the package is right.....

StressFree
8th Jan 2006, 13:45
Mr.Puzzler,
Blimey - a bloke can't even move around here without being spotted.......
What are you doing looking through these forums anyway, I thought you were happy with your current job, after all you've got excellent weather, great tax and a dynamic company to work for !!!!!!!!
We need to talk - will phone in the next couple of days, this is the year of change.

Has anyone got any CR package info, please.

:confused:

NoseGear
9th Jan 2006, 08:03
There is no info cause the package has not been decided upon, according to my very reliable inside info. When it has been put together the applicants will be told during initial contact. The company are very aware of having to be competative with the established carriers in HK, so it should be not too bad.
Good luck to you all
Nosey

Hickory Stick
11th Jan 2006, 03:12
All of the info will be revealed shortly I hope. Will be interesting to see with all of the proposed start ups in Hong Kong what will be the eventual outcome. The plus is getting in with a company that is growing rapidly. I am definately looking foreward to a pay rise as the current salary sucks!

Everything now is either a rumour or speculation! No on yet knows what will be happening with the pay structure. I have seen the proposed salary and it will be competitive. Proposals have been sent to management, waiting for their reply.

Cheers

Fly747
13th Jan 2006, 14:30
Recruiting will be difficult if the package isn't right. I see from other threads that Jade over in Shenzen are not finding it too easy.

404 Titan
13th Jan 2006, 22:25
OMann

Most companies in the region (not all) are after experienced drivers to fill the ranks of their expansion plans. I note from your profile that you are still relatively inexperienced and this is probably the reason why you haven’t yet had an offer for an interview. Almost all the airlines on the mainland are after pilots. Most are finding it very difficult to get them. The biggest reason is what they want and what they are offering isn’t competitive. Economics 101.

flycold
15th Jan 2006, 05:27
Wow, CR Airways getting also 787, Dreamliner !!!
I will not hesitate change my final goal from cathay to CR, if I can be a flight deck crew of Dreamliner! :ok:
Go CR Go!

Hickory Stick
15th Jan 2006, 12:12
WOW Settle!

I for one have real doubt and reservation about the governmant of Hong Kong approving all of this. After all, Hainan is a mainland carrier. Also, it is not looking well for CR offering a competitive renumeration package. It is hard for some at the top of CR to understand that if they want to recruit experienced employees they have to PAY!!! There are a lot of CVs but as you would guess, mostly F/O standard (low time). Play safe and apply to a real airline, later on if... and thats a big if, CR gets their s..t together then apply. As for the 787, well the 737 are not here yet so settle down.

I am thinking real hard about leaving personaly. I will give it a few more months, but if nothings changes.....im gone.

Cheers

cub71
16th Jan 2006, 20:41
Anyone applied and gotten a reply?

I submitted an application. I have 4500hrs as F/O on MD80 and B737NG. No reply.

Anyone?

NoseGear
16th Jan 2006, 22:39
According to "Deep Throat" they have been inundated with CV's, as you can imagine, mostly of the "hit and hope" variety. Lots of Type Rated guys with 300 hours, but as the ad said, the minimums are 1500, but going thru the stack in order to not miss anyone takes time. I hear it will probably be a week or two before emails go out informing the initial group of pilots about interviews. The plan was to contact everyone, but the group of pilots with way less than the minimums is so large that will probably not be possible.
Patience is the key my friends, more from Deep Throat as it happens........:cool:

Rubberbiscuit
19th Jan 2006, 06:58
It will be a slow painfull process getting all of the pieces of the puzzle called "expansion" to fit. So for all of you seriously interested, have some patience. The initial A/C's will be on wet-lease (max 1 year by HK law). So don't expect the phone to ring to soon. As long as the ownership issues between Hainan and CR are ironed out and approved by the HK Government, there is reason to expect the expansion will be successfull.

FloatJockey
23rd Jan 2006, 04:47
Hi there Hickory Stick, do you fly the CL604 as well? Just saw it here in Ngurah Rai the other day and wondered whether you guys also do the corporate side with Rainbow Jet as well! I am visiting your parts in March and would like to take a peek and say gadday. What are the chances of speaking with someone there to follow up on my application and get a look at the operation?

The CRJ 700 is a great looking machine, do they intend to expand with these as well or are they going to be superseded by the 73's and 787's?

Any info is greatly appreciated!

:D

Hickory Stick
24th Jan 2006, 02:57
The owner of CR Airways has some kind of interst stake in Rainbow. No I do not fly the CL604, CR and Rainbow do not share crews. As for coming down? Sure come to the head office and ask to speak with the DFO or CP. Good luck on your application. As for the CRJ future? Well, I would suspect that they will be gone soon, makes no sense to operate the CRJ when you have 737s.

Anyway, as for the salary package? No one knows yet if its going up or down.

Cheers

Follow the Follow Me
24th Jan 2006, 05:34
I doubt if the package could go down. Not if they are serious about getting the right experience levels, to ensure smooth start up and expansion.

Experienced NG drivers are in demand at the moment. India, the Far East and soon, China.

Hickory Stick
24th Jan 2006, 07:37
Follow the Follow Me Car. Too funny! Guess you have to be there to understand. Anyway, I agree with you. I hope the package will go up, but I suspect it won't be anytime soon. It will probably be the same old same old, negotiate your own package based on your flying experience.

Anyway, if that is the case, that will be disasterous! Sooner or later employees will be pissed being paid different wages for the same job.

For those who get interviews, report what you are being offered. We will let you know if it is ballpark or not. Recent reports are that they offer HKD 36000 F/O, HKD 48000 Capt. per month. No there is nothing else. No housing, education ect. Lets hope it changes.

Cheers

Wizofoz
24th Jan 2006, 09:16
So around 6K US for a 737 Captain. Sheesh! That's less than I take home in Britain!! It's also about half what you can earn in Japan which is, IMHO, a nicer place to live.

They won't get may experienced pilots knocking down their door at those rates. I get the feeling the Mainland Chinese have a bit to learn about market driven economics!

Rubberbiscuit
25th Jan 2006, 03:06
Follow the follow me:
I am afraid Hickory Stick is right. CR Airways upper management favorite past-time is international Pilot fishing! (2nd favorite past time is Limbo dancing! Read: How low can you go!).

Equipment required:
1 Deep sea rod per participant
1 Long line (capable of min. 250lbs) each
1 Big bate pale with bate size ranging from very large to extremely small for each participant

Rules: You start off fishing all over the map with larger bait, then keep reducing the bait size until the targeted catch stop biting. The one that catches the most experiensed pilot with the smallest bait has won!

I would like to point out that there is a great bunch of guys and gals working there and some really good people in middle management. Not a bad gig for a single guy. Probably a little unstable and tight monitarily speaking for someone trying to support a family on the current FO package!

flycold
1st Feb 2006, 16:17
good luck to everybody!:ok:

CathayPacific
2nd Feb 2006, 01:05
Very very nice, good news to me as I'm a Hong Kong spotter!!

bekolblockage
3rd Feb 2006, 22:27
Hainan Air liveried 737-800 already seen operating flights into Hong Kong over CNY using CR Airways callsign (Bauhinia).

Hickory Stick
4th Feb 2006, 01:01
Only a wet lease, no big deal!

Now a dry lease, that will be interesting when it happens. Finding pilots that will stick around under the present contracts, that will be priceless. My bet, lots will come and lots will leave. Things are not moving in the right direction for the working environment. My advice, think real hard before you sign.

Cheers

Peak Tram Driver
5th Feb 2006, 12:36
Yep they need to pay more money to get the people to stay.....its time for for KC Purple Rinse to call it a day. My advice would be join the co get the rating, get some hours (at least 500 ) then the world is your oyster. To hire Captains TRI/TRE they are going to have pay some serious money. They will be looking at 10000 US a month at least, especially the quality the CAD expects.;)

Hickory Stick
6th Feb 2006, 00:26
Great here come the pay cuts ive been dreding. Thanx for the heads up peak!

Cheers

Rubberbiscuit
6th Feb 2006, 09:49
I think they will get the training staff. From what I gather training pilots are paid well. I am guessing there are experienced 737 expats flying in third world countries that would jump at the oppurtunity. What will be really interesting, is to see how many guys or girls will go for the current FO package. I am am referring to the very attractive features, such as no pay until check to line is completed (you are looking at about 4 months from start of training until you CASH YOUR FIRST CHECK(no autopay)).............or the part about paying for your own hotel and transportation during training:bored: (reimbursed if you pass the course).

bluepacific
6th Feb 2006, 10:54
Hey Rubber, What other great conditions are they providing ???

Rubberbiscuit
6th Feb 2006, 11:12
Well.........where do I start? No housing allowance, no education allowance, no meal allowance, no overtime pay, no pension plan, no medical benefits, no interline agreements...............oh and I almost forgot, if you are really special there will be a 15% gratuity on top of your salary (exept most of the other pilots will be making 15% more than you):hmm:

bluepacific
6th Feb 2006, 11:23
Wow, where do I not apply ?
****e, and I thought we had it bad.
:ouch:

Hickory Stick
6th Feb 2006, 13:05
But hey, this is aviation right? Guaranteed there are lots of resumes/CVs pouring in. If you have a family, a life, self worth then don't apply! You will regret it!!!!!

With so many other hiring why CR? Don't make the same mistake many of us did.

Cheers

Peak Tram Driver
6th Feb 2006, 20:32
If you have the minamums for CR you can apply to HK Express
where you will get FULL PAY from day of signing contract, and you will get 45000 HK$ as your pay(37 at CR) and will workunder management who know what there your doing. Purple Rinse its time you leave or get a new HAIR DYE....you need to change your tune....its the year of the Dog now!