Darwin Accomodation [Archive]

Bagot_Community_Locator

18th Dec 2005, 03:36

I suggest you try the Bagot Community.

It is a small friendly close knit community of people and just the right place for itinerants (people like you).

It is situated right in the middle of suburbia Darwin and close to everything. It is just down the road from the airport and so very convenient for any pilot.

It is actually on the main road half way between the city and the Northern suburbs/Casuarina shopping complex/airport. It has its own bus stop with good transport links to all over Darwin.

I believe it even has its own "community" take away food store, otherwise McDonalds is only a 5 minute walk down the road. There are maybe also a few pay phones on site/on the main road so you can ring up for jobs/be in contact.

For those athletes, the complex even includes tennis/basketball courts with night lighting.

The local women their are also very friendly so you'll never be lonely.

This would be the perfect introduction to the Territory.

Accomodation is fairly cheap, as you can shack up with the locals for maybe a carton or beer otherwise you can just camp out anywhere in the open or in the street like many others freely do.

They have built a large fence around the complex to stop you wandering out on the main road and getting run over after you've had a few drinks too many.

It even has a locator beacon named after it, so you'll be reminded of the good old Bagot Community everytime you fly.

I suggest you give the Bagot Community a try.

:D

tinpis

1st Jun 2006, 02:28

You might like to update your guide to the Bagot (http://bulletin.ninemsn.com.au/bulletin/site/articleIDs/382FE35CA4C34280CA257179001413E5) community :(

VH-GRUMPY

1st Jun 2006, 10:55

Bagot Community Locator
You might like to get your racial vilification of this site (that is dlete it) - or suffer the consequences of a federal charge. It is illegal.
:*

RENURPP

1st Jun 2006, 11:17

Which part is racial vilification?:confused:

All fairly accurate informa5tion from what I can see :=

frontseatpassenger

1st Jun 2006, 14:13

Never seen a real abo before Grumpy?

Come spend some time in the Top End communities before you pass judgment. Just ask any remote student nurse what they think of the poor aboriginals. No sympathy from them after a few weeks in the real world. As for Bagot…..well the new fence on Bagot Road looks nice.

Cloud Basher

2nd Jun 2006, 06:18

When I was in the Territory I had a friend come and visit us who had taken part in the reconciliation march across Sydney Harbour bridge and who felt very sorry for these hard done by people.

After two weeks visiting us she had done a 180 degree flip and could not believe the lies the media and other organisations told in the capital cities about the situation.

Some people need to get out more, it is a big country with many varied and interesting peoples...

CB

VH-GRUMPY

2nd Jun 2006, 06:50

FYI

I have lived in Darwin (Knuckey St) and was the then Chief Minister's (Everingham) first press secretary in 1977-78. I have worked all over Australia and have just put two Torres Strait Islanders on a plane to fly home to Darnely and Duaun this afternoon. Took them to the National Museum to show them the fantastic ATSI displays.

Been into Arneham Land; into PNG including by C310 Cairns to Daru.

I know about Raintree Park and invalid port. What I said I will say a different way - using examples of aboriginal alcohol abuse in jest is quite clearly racial vilification.

In my 40 years in the workforce I suspect that I have seen more of aboriginal Australia than a lot of Australians including in Cobar, Lightning Ridge, Godooga; Birdsville, Broken Hill, Nyngan, Broome, Karratha, Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, Rocky, Dingo, and a lot more.

Tiger 77

2nd Jun 2006, 07:21

So Grumpy, I guess you would be happy to hang your good clothes outside to dry in Wyndham or Broome? I'm sure your aboriginal neighbours wouldn't touch them. Would you also like to park your brand new car outside the pub in Halls creek for a night?

Don't try and blame alcohol for any of this either - normal people know when to stop normally.

This is NOT a racist attack toward aboriginals, some of them are very normal.

Cheers,

Tiger.

disco_air

2nd Jun 2006, 07:57

racial vilification

read: Truth

...Disco

RENURPP

2nd Jun 2006, 08:02

Reading between the lines there appears to be a change AWAy from the politically correct attitudes of our leaders of the past.

About time I say.

Politically correct ideals, did not, and never will help solve the problem, even the indigenous leaders are agreeing on that these days. Say it as it is I reckon.

sumtingwong

2nd Jun 2006, 08:11

Grumps maaate.

Have another latte, a bite of your quiche (oh sorry, that may be perceived as vilification……I mean bacon and egg pie) and a lie down.

Perhaps a green can would be more apt.

Bottoms up!:E

VH-GRUMPY

2nd Jun 2006, 10:21

Chaps (I know no one is female in this debate)
Come on - don't display your intellectual ingorance on the internet - everyone can see it.
Latte - give me a break that insult went out when you were still lusting over some idiot on page 3 of your normal newspaper 30 years ago. Take your hand off it and tackle my argument seriously. BTW did I meet you one drunken night in the pub in Kunnunra in 1991 - or Mount Isa the same year in the Irish Club?
I don't drink latte or chardonay - this is exactly what I am talking about. I drink quality red wine and Crownies. I do like quiche occasionally but only if I cook it myeslf. I gave up green cans in Darwin when I thought I should stop buying a slab and thinking if I drank the whole slab in a night it would improve my intellect!

Frontseatpassneger proves my point - he believes that everyone who expresses a contrary point of view has never seen an aboriginal, had one as a friend or been to the TOP END.

My father was in the Royal Australian Navy and was in the Top End when serious crimes were committed by Japanese pearling fleets during the 1950s - they went ashore and raped aboriginal women in Arnhem Land. He met aboriginals who had never seen white men before - I first went up there about 20 years later and was horrified at the impact of the white culture and the missionaries on their life.

Tiger77 - normal people knowing when to stop! Give me a break. Was that the idiots from both the Cronula white community and the Lebanese western Sydney community recently? That was white rascism at work and it generated an equally stupid counter-rascist response from the Lebansese gangs.

Yes - my house has been broken into - by some stupid white teenager who didn't know what to steal. He took the cheap stuff.
Go home and think about it fellas.

Grumpy

RENURPP

2nd Jun 2006, 10:26

MMMMmmmm, red wine and crownies, we agree on some things!!

I may have met you in KU or the ISA in 1991, but how would I know.

VH-GRUMPY

2nd Jun 2006, 10:53

RENURPP

Seeing this is an aviation forum, in 1991 I was managing the CAA AMATS pilot and industry education campaign and we started this in KUN and I managed some 40 workshops around the country running a program on how to use the new system (Alphabet airspace etc) and convincing you all that you weren't going to die because of it. I set up the Aviation/CAA Safety Promotion Unit.

In KUN over many beers the pilots said we were wrong and the closure of FS there would result in may deaths! Drank lots of beer. Argued.

Mount Isa - got smarter - drank Guiness - bought lots of Guiness for pilots - drank them under the table. Argued.

I always said that I knew that we were removing a service but my job was not to explain Dick Smith's strategy (affordable safety) but to try and help the pilots out there adjust to the new system and to fly it safely.

I think this was achieved because we never ever under estimated the ability of Oz pilots to fly their aeroplanes safely in any environment.

Cheers

:ok:

frontseatpassenger

2nd Jun 2006, 11:12

Grumpy, if you want a more rounded perspective then you should spend some time in say – Port Keats, Elcho Island, Snake Bay, Halls Creek and many more off the tourist track. don't display your intellectual ingorance on the internetWhy? You just have. It’s not the 1950s any more and it looks like the traditional elders are doing the raping now instead of the Japanese pearl fishermen. I know that did make national news a few weeks ago so I assume you are aware of this FACT.

If you are still in a position of influence and you want to make a real (I mean effective, not window dressing) difference then treat them all as Australians and apply Australian Law. Meaning – get them off the welfare. It is only hurting them and their cause.

Sorry, I won’t comment on the airspace – it will take up too much of my drinking time. :bored:

LookinDown

3rd Jun 2006, 00:19

Though this thread has evolved a long way from its origin, the topic has far greater importance for all of us than probably 98% of the aviation related posts on this forum. It is aviation related indirectly in that many pilots and operators have to face and wrestle with the host of issues alluded to in previous posts within both their professional and personal lives.

Anyone not having experienced Top End or outback communities would be horrified by some of the postings while those who have would have been nodding their heads in agreement. The television images of desolate, dirty, overcrowded and almost demolished communities raise levels of pity and the desire to bring about justice and equity in terms of living standards. They don’t realise that the reality of some communities is even worse.

Those who have had the pleasure of the experience have it indelibly scribed into their memory. No-one can easily forget or repress the images of a towering aboriginal man dragging his wife through the dust by her hair within spitting distance of the strip at Halls Creek, or the morning image of Broome’s litter strewn and otherwise very pretty central park or the humbugging and butt runs of aboriginal people in Darwin and Alice.

The former have a noble altruistic approach, sometimes tainted by political correctness but principally centred on the notion of giving all in this country a fair go. The latter have to deal with the sharp end of the issues on a daily, debilitating and depressing basis.

The sad thing is that neither side knows the solution - there is none. It is as unsolvable as the conflict in Iraq and as and world poverty is. To walk around major outback and Top End centres is to stroll through parallel universes. Two cultures live side by side most often with no acknowledgement or recognition of each other. It often appears as if each is invisible to the other, except for those occasions when they clash so heavily.

I’m not a black or white person. (that’s outlook not skin colour). I don’t put the majority of the blame on black or white individuals (that’s skin colour not outlook!) for either creating or perpetuating the sad state of play. Our ancestors bear that responsibility. My responsibility is to try to retain the empathy necessary to treat people with some dignity while those capable others attempt to improve the situation. Cause there but by the grace of God…..
LD

tinpis

3rd Jun 2006, 01:05

I love Darwhine.
Im getting more than a little pissed off my kids cant walk from my house in the city park to a corner store without the threat of being humbugged or even possibly bashed in broad daylight.

Would you put up with this sort of ****e in Sydney /Melbourne /Adelaide/Perth ?
If they want to use my tax $$ to build bigger jails go right ahead.

Enough is enough.

The Voice

3rd Jun 2006, 01:11

Just popping back briefly to Grumpy's first post on this thread, the response, in my most humble opinion to that first post from Bagot Locator, was a tad harsh.

That ditty has been trotted more than once in the last, oh, say 4-5 years. It is a tongue in cheek description of that landmark known to most residents of DRW.

Since then, there have been reasoned and interesting posts from several people and I commend them. This thread has now become interesting.

just adding this for thought, without wishing to incite a riot :

racial vilification is, under s4 of the act: in a nutshell I might add,

A person must not incite hatred towards, serious contempt for, or severe ridicule of, a person or group of persons on the ground of their race by a)threatening physical harm or (b)inciting others to threaten physical harm.

In that context, I think that debate then ends.

I was a territory resident at a very young age, both for myself and the territory. I have maintained my links over the years and have lived/worked and currently own property there.

It has changed with the times: unfortunately the cultural aspects of some within the wider Darwin community have changed but to their detriment.

It is a fact that there are indigenous folk, known as long-grassers, and are people who are either displaced from the communities for some act that has offended their local customary law OR, by choice, they have descended upon the bigger centres simply to drink (particularly if their community is dry).

It is a sad situation, one the NT Government together and in conjunction with the local indigenous elders is trying to overcome. Several practices are in force to attempt to reverse the trend. But as with all things, it does take time.

Oh, and there goes the no female participation in this thread theory. :rolleyes:

tinpis

3rd Jun 2006, 01:23

It is a sad situation, one the NT Government together and in conjunction with the local indigenous elders is trying to overcome. Several practices are in force to attempt to reverse the trend. But as with all things, it does take time.

Voice we is waiting waiting.....:*

Meanwhile how about no siddown money ?

As someone who has to deal with those bastards at centrelink over family allowance payments I find it INCREDIBLE that anyone could get money out them so easily.
A little leg up here and there from huggy fluff organisations perhaps?

LookinDown

3rd Jun 2006, 03:10

Voice,
I would appreciate hearing about any encouraging strategies that might draw me away from my previous pessimistic conclusions.

sumtingwong

3rd Jun 2006, 07:01

ThoughtCrime

3rd Jun 2006, 08:22

Grumpy

The university called, they need you to brainwash some more arts students into feeling 'sorry'. The last few protests have had less than acceptable attendance. :hmm:

Gee great, a white person broke into your house. Proves nothing and furthermore enforces the argument. If the person was black when caught they could blame their ethnicity and walk away.

All i know is im often kept up all night by these 'gangsters' who live across the street yelling abuse at each other and smashing random objects, and I can't walk home at night due to little punks with baseball bats wandering the streets. And they're not white. :=

TC

ContactMeNow

3rd Jun 2006, 08:39

Tiger77 - normal people knowing when to stop! Give me a break. Was that the idiots from both the Cronula white community and the Lebanese western Sydney community recently? That was white rascism at work and it generated an equally stupid counter-rascist response from the Lebansese gangs.
Grumpy

VH-Gumby, sorry Grumpy!

Wouldn't it be more PC if the word "Lebanese", be replaced by the words, "people of middle eastern appearance"?

One would "hate" to sterotype in this day and age....:}

Also, it is spelt CRONULLA, not Cronula. :ok:

Whilst we are on the spelling mistakes the word rascist, is actually spelt RACIST.

Hope I have cleared some things up for you.

Coon day, oops I mean Good day :E

CMN :cool:

disco_air

3rd Jun 2006, 08:55

In my 40 years in the workforce I suspect that I have seen more of aboriginal Australia than a lot of Australians including in Cobar, Lightning Ridge, Godooga; Birdsville, Broken Hill, Nyngan, Broome, Karratha, Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, Rocky, Dingo, and a lot more.

Canberra is an isolated place. I bet you impress everyone there with your tales of the outside world.

Aboriginal Australia? Give me a break. All these places are towns and have highways going through them (and have at least one place you can reflect on your vast experiences over a latte and quiche:}). Did you get postcards? :hmm:

...Disco

ContactMeNow

3rd Jun 2006, 09:00

Canberra is an isolated place. I bet you impress everyone there with your tales of the outside world.

Aboriginal Australia? Give me a break. All these places are towns and have highways going through them. Did you get postcards? :hmm:

...Disco

:D
:D
:D
:D
:D

Disco, I take my hat off to you once again :ok:

Led Zep

3rd Jun 2006, 11:42

Broome and Karratha? You mean South Hedland and Roebourne, right? :} :}

tinpis

4th Jun 2006, 11:38

Oi thats a bit orf mate:=

justathought

4th Jun 2006, 23:41

People do what their parents do.

If you grow up in a middle class East coast family home you will probably strive to get some sort of practical education, follow some sport, plan on having a house and family, drink socially and take an interest in whats in the paper....If your Dad abuses your mum there is a good chance you will be tempted to do the same in your relationship because thats what you learnt as a kid. If you are female in that scenario you'll be more likely to accept it in your relationship....it's what you percieve as 'normal for you'.

If you grow up in Port Keats you will probably take an interest in Ausi rules and not bat an eyelid at verbal/ physical abuse and maybe sexual as well. You'll accept that financial wealth is not 'normal for you' and know that to obtain it would be going against the flow, you won't expect a minimum of year 12 education but probably a uni degree, you won't expect to hold a position of power/responsibility in the big smoke.....you probably aren't even sure where the big smoke is (unless you count Darwin). You probably won't be exposed to adult discussions about mortage rates and UN policy and school zoning and global warming on a daily basis and learn by osmosis how these conversations go, chances are you won't hear mum and dad trying to figure out what 'four down starting with s' is every sunday arvo........when eventually you are exposed to some of these things it is not 'normal for you'. So what do you do??? Pretty much what mum and dad did because you don't know anything else.
That begs the question 'why are mum and dad doing these things?'

Two cultures clashed a while back...they didn't mesh, one just rolled over the other. I'm not saying thats right or wrong, thats just how it was and that was pretty normal then. But the Aboriginal structure and heirachy was rendered useless...it didn't have a role in the new culture, an elder who was important and had status suddenly had seemigly no useful skills in the new way of things...he had lost his status, he got drunk cause things looked pretty glum, he ended up face down in a gutter, his boy watched him do this....he couldn't see a role for himself in this new strange culture either....so he did what dad did, and so on.
Thats a very simplified version of what I reckon has happened, basically one culture took over (leaving the other feeling useless) and people generally do what their parents do.
Very interseting topic and I'd be happy for people to point out holes in my theory so I can adjust it!
my two cents.
PS I think that the subconscious compulsion to do what you've seen your parents do while growing up is very very strong, almost a basic instinct. Stronger than all but the most tenacious concious decisions to do otherwise.

disco_air

5th Jun 2006, 02:25

justathought you hit the nail on the head there. no requirement for adjusting!

..Disco

wdn

5th Jun 2006, 03:21

i wonder if the voice could clear something up?

if one were to say that members of a group (defined by their "race") were lazy, drunken slobs, offensive to more than one of the senses (but particularly the olfactory), unable to contribute much to society, stupid, violent, free loaders, unable to achieve progress (beyond walking around the place) and generally p*ss poor in innumerable other ways, but one did not threaten physical harm or incite others to do so, then it would not be racial vilification?

now before you all start (hehe), if you think i'm referring to a particular "race", perhaps you should examine your own stereotypical view of said "race". i am talking about a hypothetical group defined by their "race", not any group that may have been referred to above.

i would like to emphasise that grumpy has attributed characteristics to certain groups based on race (called Cronulla white communtiy and Lebanese community idiots and stupid) - not I.

bushy

5th Jun 2006, 05:30

The aboriginals are the upper class in the N.T. We all work for them.

tinpis

5th Jun 2006, 05:36

Judging by the lifestyles of a few Bushy , they are bloody good bosses :ok:

LookinDown

5th Jun 2006, 08:15

Justa....
A good summary, but you did ask for responses!

Would it be fair to say that your observations failry closely follow the nature vs nurture debate? Pretty much all of the anti-social behaviour is learned through observation, negative modelling and the lack of opportunity and choice throughout our childhood, from birth. As this outcome appears more the norm than the exception I tend to agree with you.

But there are exceptions everywhere. There are many examples of poor boy/girl made good despite crippling homelives not only from every culture but also from individual families. The big question is why are there exceptions? What makes an individual break out of the expectations barrier?

A seratonin transporter gene was identified last year (in Oz) whereby that 20-30% of the population with the short version of the gene are significantly more likley to suffer clinical depression during their lives. No, the gene doesnt cause the depression, but instead means that the levels of resilience and coping skills to handle a succession of the big negative 'life events' are a lot poorer than those without this version of the gene. Such people are susceptable to clinical depression.

This has scary ramifications for society (and overwhelming positives as well). Destructive anti-social behaviour patterns aren't just a product of wrong or irresponsible choices. They can also be the result or at least exaccerbated by inate factors. I dont want to even think about the impact on the legal system of somewhere down the track identifying the 'liar' gene or the 'callous murderer' gene! Of course this can never absolve personal responsibilty for one's actions but its not so balck and white as it used to be.

I'm sure some mates have the 'cheap drunk' gene.

prospector

5th Jun 2006, 09:37

If one reads the article below and then does a google search on the justice who gave the police a hard time, Pat O'shane, it really leaves the nature verses nurture conundrum up in the air.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/again-the-law-shoots-and-misses/2006/06/04/1149359604861.html

Prospector

Erin Brockovich

5th Jun 2006, 12:04

Now that we have digressed I was wondering how the Qantas Indigenous Cadet Scheme was going. Have there been any applications? Anyone on a cadet course? A serious query if anyone knows.

Justathought, the only hole I can see is that obtaining wealth for them is not that hard and they are not financially disadvantaged. The opposite actually. They still desire wealth (or more accurately just quick cash) to pay for their boom boxes and tea, they just don’t respect it because it keeps coming in every pay day. If the parents don’t have to go to work to get it, why should the kids. Why would any of us.

I do believe there is a solution – but no politician would stay elected to see it through. (or would they?)

justathought

10th Jun 2006, 00:00

Lookin down, I'm not sure about nature v's nurture but I think the reality is that both have an effect and one or the other is not neccesarily dominant.
I think that mimicking your parents behaviour is a basic survival instinct that all animals existing today have been very good at, the ones that weren't good at it never got to pass on their genes. A newborn is hard wired to copy their parents, it's how they get through to the stage of being self sufficient without getting eaten by a sabre tooth. Think about it, if the human child didn't mimmick their parents they would be extremely unusual and wouldn't learn at the incredible rate they do.So does that mimmicking behaviour stop at things like being cautious of other animals, sleeping in sheltered places, hunting techniques, personal hygene practices, language, social interaction within the family/tribe??? I doubt it, I think there is probably an instinctive urge to behave the same as your parents in just about every way. Why? Because it works, your parents are here, they are alive, they were successful at passing on their genes to you and that is all that matters, successfully passing on your genes, that is what drives every animal on the planet, they have triumphed where others failed in the most important and sole reason for existing. So why would you do anytrhing different? What your parents do has worked and you are living proof. I think you are hard wired to mimmick your parents as the most sure bet to be as successful as them.

Erin, I think there is a big difference between obtaining wealth and getting money. They often can "get money" but most have no idea how to make that money work for them and therby turn it into wealth. It makes no difference how much cash you get your hands on, if you don't put it to work for you it will disapear eventually. In my experience the average Port Keats chap will spend the money on things that will never return any rewards, they will simply cease to exist (beer) or become a liability (car) , they will never return rewards like say....a block of flats rented out. I don't think many of them have had anyone sit down and explain how money works and how it builds on itself if invested carefully.
Cheers for your points, its got me thinking. c ya.

Erin Brockovich

10th Jun 2006, 01:47

Justathought I see where you’re coming from. You just need to look at it from a different angle. If the definition of wealth is to be in a financial position that you no longer have to work for a living and still able to survive indefinitely at a standard of living that you are comfortable with, well I think they have it.

They don’t have to put their money to work because the government does it for them. They already have their investment that that throws off cash week after week. Their ‘block of flats’ is the government. It’s brilliant. Return of Investment of infinity! All they have to do is have more children and they in turn as you say, learn from their parents how to “get your money for nothing and your chips for free”.

Their society of what‘s mine is yours prevents them from accumulating to much and keeps their standard of living low. That said, a friend who used to work at Centrelink broke down the allowances they receive one day and the average annual income was about $100,000 (not including any possible royalties). That includes all benefits/subsidies. Hard to believe? Just owning a dog gives them about an extra $20 per week (from scratchy memory). And that’s only for one dog. Ever wonder why there are so many camp dogs running around.

Why do you think the inefficient GA industry keeps surviving up there? That is one of the few things you can thank them for, and that is sustaining an industry so we can get our flying experience.

Erin Brockovich

10th Jun 2006, 01:57

Yesturdays NT News Official offends Wadeye elders
By NIGEL ADLAM
09jun06
TRADITIONAL owners from the troubled community of Wadeye have stormed out of a meeting with a senior Federal Government adviser.
They accused Office of Indigenous Policy Co-ordination secretary Wayne Gibbons of bullying them and talking to them like children.
``You seem to listen and take advice from many people, but when we try to tell you what we know would work here, you do not listen to us,'' the traditional owners said in a letter to Indigenous Affairs Minister Mal Brough.
``You only blame us.''
The meeting at Wadeye ended abruptly after Mr Gibbons said:
NO more federal money would be given for housing until homes damaged in rioting were repaired;
GANG members had to help repair the damage; and
EVERY child had to go to school.
He gave the community a one-month deadline.
The community leaders told Mr Gibbons they wanted these three things to happen - but the deadline was unrealistic.
It would take much longer to repair the houses.
And it would be impossible to get every child into school because there were 688 school-age children but only 420 classroom places.
The letter to Mr Brough said Wadeye had worked in partnership with Canberra for three years.
``Is this how one partner treats another - by coming in to their home and demanding unrealistic things and treating them with disrespect?
Mr Brough said:
``We don't expect them to do any structural work but we expect the houses to have the graffiti removed and the roofs to have rocks taken off.
``We'll provide the paint and material,'' he said.
``We also expect children to attend school - and not just occasionally.
``And they found that to be totally unreasonable.
``They have to realise that the situation has changed.''
Love this ``We'll provide the paint and material,'' he said.
``We also expect children to attend school - and not just occasionally.
``And they found that to be totally unreasonable. :rolleyes: :hmm: :ugh: :} :{