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IMC1
10th Dec 2005, 22:21
Not sure if this is true, but I have been told you can request a low approach and go around on Xmas day at Heathrow, as its so quiet. Any views on this, I know light aircraft have been into Heathrow before? Tkx IMC

White Hart
10th Dec 2005, 22:49
I suppose if you don't ask, you don't get. and having not seen or heard of such an event occurring at EGLL in the last 16 Xmas Days, I would expect 'don't get' to win the day.

Unless you've got a Spitfire :ok:

bletchleytugie
11th Dec 2005, 08:04
I doubt it these days

Monocock
11th Dec 2005, 08:20
If anyone finds out more please let me know as i'm up for it!!

If the mains touch what's the fee gonna be?:p

TheKentishFledgling
11th Dec 2005, 09:08
This rumour has gone round every year since I've been flying (6 years)...I don't think there's any truth in it :(

tKF

Midland 331
11th Dec 2005, 14:17
I once listened to a police helicopter (Thames Valley?) ask for a "look around" at 0300 one morning. The controller was fine, and let the chap hang about for around ten minutes or so in the overhead. ISTR this was one of the police chappies last jobs before relocation.

Nothing to do with "business", judging by the R/T - just pure curiousity.

Warped Factor
11th Dec 2005, 14:46
In a word....

NO!!!

Crops up every year, hopefully the above covers it :)

Don't blame us (ATC), blame the BAA.

WF.

SKYYACHT
11th Dec 2005, 19:00
I actually wrote to the BAA a couple of years ago to request the same thing, and I did in fact receive the courtesy of a written reply. This letter confirmed that the friend that said he shot an approach onto 27L was correct, but that now they didnt allow light aircraft to approach EGLL as "It would be unfair on commercial operators should I block the runway for movements"

At the time, I was quite insulted, having flown numerous approaches into busy airports stateside such as KLAX, and KSNA, and so on, but I did see their point. Nowadays there are so many people fleeing UK over the Xmas break.

I do understand from a controller friend, that ATC are in the position to grant a SVFR approach, but that they are unable to grant a landing clearance, as they are only working on behalf of the operator.

I suggest that if you want to be treated as a responsible pilot, and an equal in the airspace community, that you visit the USA, and shoot approaches to land at somewhere like LAX - or go to South Africa, where they welcome you to shoot approaches into Jan Smuts Capetown!

Its a disappointment....... I know


:(

DFC
11th Dec 2005, 21:59
Ask for a Special VFR Clearance via Hatton Cross and M25 Junction 14 not above XXXX legal feet.

If no traffic there is no reason for NATS not to provide the clearance.

Obey the 1000ft and the 500ft rule at all times.

Do not at any stage ask for "an approach to" or "overflight of" or the use of any of the facilities owned by BAA.

It has nothing to do with BAA - they do not own the airspace - to say they can have any "ownership" of the empty airspace above their property creates a dangerous precident for NIMBYs.

Good Luck! :ok:

Regards,

DFC

italianjon
11th Dec 2005, 23:40
Monocock...

If you do, don't forget the new PPL types who are impressionable, and want to see how instrument approaches are done in the real world... Hint hint... if there's a spare seat going ;)

Don't forget the Vortex separations are reduced locally at LHR ;)

And just wondering about the landing fee... does handling apply for a touch and go?

anyway laters

Jon

vancouv
12th Dec 2005, 13:58
I spoke to soemone who said he'd done a touch and go at Gatwick on Xmas day - ATC asked him to donate something to charity in lieu of a landing fee.

This was a while ago though, things may well be different now.

Presumably as the airport owners BAA are quite entitled to prevent anyone landing at Heathrow, and I guess that could include shooting an approach maybe, but a transit should be OK? If you could get SVFR it would be fun crossing Heathrow.

And Gatwick's in class D isn't it so you wouldn't even need SVFR for that?

Warped Factor
12th Dec 2005, 14:32
DFC wrote:

Ask for a Special VFR Clearance via Hatton Cross and M25 Junction 14 not above XXXX legal feet.

There will likely still be around 600 movements at EGLL on the 25th so don't hold your breath whilst waiting for a suitable gap in the traffic. Expert that you are I expect you already know that SVFR is not allowed to hinder IFR.

vancouv,

Gatwick can be transitted under VFR at any time of the year.

WF.

vancouv
12th Dec 2005, 15:14
Warped Factor,

Are you likely to get a transit over the top of the runways? Or will you just be able to route through a corner?

Warped Factor
12th Dec 2005, 18:04
vancouv,

Under normal circumstances it should be possible to transit Gatwick over the threshold of the runway in use.

WF.

wbryce
12th Dec 2005, 20:15
I hope the female controller at Edinburgh who always refuses transits is working on Christmas day
"G-WBRY cleared to enter the zone...."

"negative, remaining clear of zone, G-RY" :E

Providing the pre-flight meal doesn't disturb the W&B!

egbt
12th Dec 2005, 21:01
or go to South Africa, where they welcome you to shoot approaches into Jan Smuts Capetown!

Done that one, great fun, had to orbit the PA28-140 to let a MD in, then a high approach to avoid the wake and crossed the bows of a waiting 747 eyes about level with the flight crew's (landing long for a quick exit). He lined up whilst I completed the landing and straight off behind me.

But the big buz was the Lightning and Buc taxiing for take off, haven't seen that since Coltishall and Leconfield in the early 70's. Also heard the sonic boom from a later flight... if only...

hollywood285
12th Dec 2005, 21:49
An old instructor friend of mine said he did an approach and go around into EGLL 1 xmas day, he said it was quiet and the controller was quite happy with it but did say in know uncertain words, if your wheels touch be perpared to pay the price!!!

Genghis the Engineer
12th Dec 2005, 22:01
Would be far more fun to shoot a missed approach in a 747 at, say, Popham :D

G

halo
12th Dec 2005, 23:31
Sorry chaps, but I'm afraid it will be a resolute no.

MATS Part 1........ SVFR Flight is not to hinder IFR flight and we are expecting about 600 movements or so.

We fulfil the requirements of the BAA on how we operate the airport as ATC. They say "no small person land" and we comply.

Besides.... Haven't you got better things to do on Xmas day? I mean honestly.... I would prefer to spend it with my family rather than sitting in the tower listening to the same Mr T jokes all day long, but I don't get a choice. And there is no controller alive that works his butt off all year long that would be keen to give you what is essentially quite a complex service on the one day of relative peace and quiet that he gets.

In the 9 years I have been there I have only ever seen a handful of light twins come in on medical flights, and never seen a light fixed wing aircraft crossing through the overhead. Helicopters often get turned away for traffic reasons and they can fly the routes, so it is unlikely that they will let you fellas in to play

But stick it on a note to Santa.... 'cause U never know what he may bring :p

TheOddOne
13th Dec 2005, 00:48
In my days at Heathrow, back in the eighties, we once had a posse of light singles arrive, park and depart a while later. Believe me, this was considered by all on the ground as a big imposition - we felt we had to be there for the flights actually scheduled - many of the long-haul flights of course bridge either Christmas Eve or Boxing Day. We were operating on a 'skeleton' staff basis to give as many as possible the day with their families. Don't get me wrong, I was then and remain a keen GA pilot, but it just seems selfish to carry out this sort of activity on the one day a year when all but essential ops are suspended to give everyone a little bit of peace and goodwill to our fellows.

Many GA airfields close for the day, out of courtesy to their neighbours and quite right too.

Gatwick is expecting around 200 movements on Christmas Day this year so it's unlikely you'll get access to the approach. Helicopters are normally accommodated crossing the threshold, but they can hold conveniently. The trial doing the same with fixed wing last year failed and hasn't been repeated. You'll probably get a routing far enough away from the aerodrome to make the experience not very interesting.

Cheers,
The Odd One

Warped Factor
13th Dec 2005, 12:26
Odd One,

The trial doing the same with fixed wing last year failed and hasn't been repeated. You'll probably get a routing far enough away from the aerodrome to make the experience not very interesting.

Your information is incorrect.

Bar the usual caveats about subject to traffic etc, there's no restriction on light fixed wing a/c transitting Gatwick via the overhead (or technically most likely via the threshold of the runway in use).

I've recently both flown it in an a/c and cleared people to fly it whilst sat in front of the radar, so hopefully I've got a rough idea of what I'm talking about ;)

WF.

PPRuNe Radar
13th Dec 2005, 13:20
In my days at Heathrow, back in the eighties, we once had a posse of light singles arrive, park and depart a while later. Believe me, this was considered by all on the ground as a big imposition - we felt we had to be there for the flights actually scheduled -

At many places ATC is a 24/7 job. Of course you're meant to be there if it falls on your rostered days, it's your job. There is always the alternative of going non operational and working 9-5 with the suits and thus guaranteeing your Xmas Day off if you feel it's that much of an imposition :p

And being the 80's, I bet none of you who worked complained about the triple time you probably received. Thought not ;)

MBX35
13th Dec 2005, 21:37
Back in 1985 I asked for and got a fly by at EGLL . I was sent a super photo taken from the tower looking down on me when I was about 50 ft up going very fast along what was then 10L
A/C reg GAVFF

White Hart
22nd Dec 2005, 22:07
To the guy from EGTO who called the Tower on the 20th - how did you get on with the number I gave you? Any joy?