Visual flight at night

[Hidden Agenda]

The AIP of a certain country states:

“…aircraft in flight shall comply with the instrument flight rules (IFR) or visual flight rules (VFR). An aircraft operating between the hours of sunset and sunrise, irrespective of weather conditions shall comply with IFR requirements or, if in a control zone during these hours, shall require special authorisation from ATC.”

The AIP goes on to state:

“All flights within a CTR, at night or in IMC, shall be conducted in accordance with IFR or special authorisation by ATC.”

“A Special VFR flight is a VFR flight cleared by air traffic to operate within a control zone in meteorological conditions below VMC.”

If I operate an aircraft, which has the restriction on its Certificate of Airworthiness “VFR flights only”, at night in a CTR and in excellent weather, under these rules am I legal?

I can not operate ‘Special VFR’ because the flight is in meteorological conditions above VMC minima.

I can not operate IFR because I am not instrument rated and the aircraft lacks certain required equipment.

I can not operate VFR because it is between the hours of sunrise and sunset.

I am operating with “special authorisation from ATC”.

Presumably this special authorisation requires compliance with neither VFR nor IFR; or does it?

Therefore can I claim to be VFR and consequently complying with the restriction on the aircraft’s Certificate of Airworthiness?

[IO540]

I don't have an answer but one might illuminate the issue by establishing whether Permit planes can fly at night in the UK.

The answer to that ought to be well established in the UK, which is fairly unusual in that night flight is (other than SVFR) under IFR. And Permit planes cannot fly under IFR.

What country is it?

[dublinpilot]

“A Special VFR flight is a VFR flight cleared by air traffic to operate within a control zone in meteorological conditions below VMC.”


I can not operate ‘Special VFR’ because the flight is in meteorological conditions above VMC minima.

I wouldn't necessarly read the first requirement as meaning that you can't get SVFR in conditions above VMC. It's simply a clearance to operate in conditions below VMC. It doesn't actually say that you actually must operate in conditons below VMC. Rather like how you don't actually have to be in IMC to have an IFR clearance.

Just a thought.

[IO540]

Indeed, the reality of IFR could be perfect VMC. The plane can't possibly know what rules the pilot is operating under, so this cannot be an actual safety issue. It's just the il/legality of it.

What might be relevant to the VFR-only operating restriction would be stuff like

inadequate avionics fo IFR nav

no pitot heat

inadequate gaps to allow control movement under icing conditions

insufficient conductive paths for lightning (esp. applying to composite planes)

etc

But all of these apply to IMC rather than IFR.

[Droopystop]

This old nugget! R22's have been flying at night in CTRs for ages, all seemingly legally despite being "VFR only". (OK you do need to have one or two bits of extra kit like an AI and those wonderful Schmuley grenade things)

Loads of attempted explanations, the best being it is simply an anomoly that the CAA choose to ignore. What the real answer is, I have no idea.

[Hidden Agenda]

Interesting points raised here – my follow up is this:

To the moderators

Interesting that you chose to move this thread to ‘Private Flying’; but if I can get some useful guidance on this forum then I am fine with that. However this is in fact in reference to a Public Transport aircraft operating Public Transport flights for hire or reward by an Air Transport Undertaking using professional pilots.

To IO540

The country is not really relevant and as Droopystop indicates it is perhaps a global issue.

Night flight under IFR is in fact an ICAO standard and the majority of the world complies with it. It is the USA, France, Australia and New Zealand amongst others that are the 'odd ones out'.

In our case we have all the equipment required for night flying under IFR outside controlled airspace and inside controlled airspace for flight other than for Public Transport, except we have the restriction on the C of A.

To dublinpilot

In the country I am using for the purposes of this discussion, and I suspect in many others, ATC will not give you a Special VFR clearance if you don’t legally require one.

But even if you got a Special VFR clearance would you then be ‘a VFR operating on a Special VFR clearance’ or ‘IFR operating on a Special VFR clearance?

[dublinpilot]

But even if you got a Special VFR clearance would you then be ‘a VFR operating on a Special VFR clearance’ or ‘IFR operating on a Special VFR clearance?

Well, the only real answer I can give is that I don't know for a fact. BUT, what I can tell you, is that this is exactly how VFR at night is conducted in Ireland, where I am based.

In Ireland, there is no VFR at night. Also (unlike the UK) you need an instrument rating to fly IFR, even if you are flying in visual meteorological conditions. This effectively means no night flying for non-IR holders. However, people do still fly at night with a CTR, under Special VFR. It's non particularly useful, because you don't actually go anywhere (you must remain within the CTR to have SVFR), but it certainly is used to get around the no VFR at night.

This is apparently how the authorities intended it to operate, rather than a loophole.

[antonybradford]

Just had a quick glance over this topic, as it was relevant to a training flight i was in the other day.

Correct me if i have miss interpreted the main points of this topic, but can you not operate VFR flight at night time when:

1. In conditions not worse than the VMC minima

&

2. Operating in an airfields control Zone?


Also, im not entirely sure if this point was made or not, but you can obtain SVFR clearnence when in conditions above VMC minima, for example to fly in class A airspace for PPL holders.

Hope this is of some use, and also, if i have made any crucial errors, then please let me know, everyone needs to learn!

Regards,

Antony

[homeguard]

I0540 makes the points with regard to why some aircraft are restricted to VMC. I'm unaware that any are restricted to VFR only.

Controlled airspace VFR's apply higher minima VMC such as 10k visibilty instead of 1500m. Surely where the aircraft is restricted to VMC minima (1500m) and to the vertical and horizontal distance from cloud (that varies with +/- 3000 altitude within the UK) that is the restriction and individual controlled airspace minima is not relevant with regard to the aircraft Cof A.

Within the UK flight at night must be conducted in accordance with IFR but in VFR conditions unless the pilot holds an appropiate rating to fly within IMC (a condition which is simply when the VMC minima is not met).

Outside of controlled airspace there is no restriction with regard to navigation equipment to be carried. VFR/IFR are simply a set of rules that the pilot chooses unless within IMC when IFR is obviously mandatory and I know of no other prescribed requirement for equipment. An AOC will have its own set of mandatory rules and operational requirements.

[DFC]

I'm unaware that any are restricted to VFR only.

Permit to Fly Aircraft are limited to VFR flight only according to the conditions of their permit to fly.

The reasons why the aircraft is limited to VFR will most probably be certification limitations.

If you are thinking of completing public transport operations at night in this aircraft your best approach is to contact the manufacturer and discuss the matter with them and having come up with a solution acceptable to the manufacturer, contact the relenavt authority.

There is little further advice anyone can give without knowing the country and the aircraft type.

Finally, ICAO leave it up to the relevant national authorities to decide how they will handle VFR flights at night. Thus there is no international standard.

Regards,

DFC

[dublinpilot]

antonybradford,

The situation with SVFR requiring higher than normal VFR conditions is a UK position, and not necessarly the same elsewhere.

Many other countries (perhaps most, I'm not sure) use SVFR as a way of allowing flight in controlled airspace, when the weather is below normal VMC.

dp

[Hidden Agenda]

DFC

You said “Finally, ICAO leave it up to the relevant national authorities to decide how they will handle VFR flights at night. Thus there is no international standard.”

Thank you for that. I think that it was amended in 1999 and I have only just caught up.

HA

[Barnaby the Bear]

All I will add is 'There is no such thing as VFR at night in the UK'. :ok:
If you request a VFR departure at night, you will be refused and the controller will probably shake his head and wonder who taught you.
It would be alot simpler if there was. :}