C130 down in Tehran

[ORAC]

Sky reporting a C130 coming into land at Tehran airport has crashed into a residential area. 80 pax + 10 crew. Heavily populated area.

[rotornut]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/12/06/tehran.crash.reut/index.html

[G-CPTN]

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-1205192,00.html

[colmac747]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/index.htm

[ORAC]

TEHRAN, Dec 6 (Reuters) - A military aircraft with more than 90 people on board crashed into a densely populated district of Tehran and exploded, setting a 10-storey building ablaze, police and local news agencies said. The state IRNA news agency said 10 bodies had been recovered from the crash site amid rescue efforts hampered by fire.

The C-130 transport plane had apparently been trying to make an emergency landing at Mehrabad international airport when it hit an apartment block in the Shahrak-e Towhid neighbourhood. Witnesses told IRNA the whole building seemed to be ablaze.

"It is awful down here. I am suffocating," Red Crescent official Shahram Alamdari told Reuters by telephone from the scene, before hanging up.

The district is inhabited by members of the military and their families, and lies on the flightpath to Mehrabad airport. IRNA said 94 people were on board the C-130. The semi-official Fars news agency put the number at 106. The Fars agency quoted police as saying they feared the casualty toll would be heavy.

[G-CPTN]

Journos on board - on way to observe a military exercise . . .

[Jordan D]

For completeness, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4502966.stm

Jordan

[G-CPTN]

BBC Radio reports that the aircraft dates back to the era of the Shah, since when no spares have been available from the USA. Furthermore, the accident was made worse (sic) because the aircraft was carrying a full load of fuel.

[GotTheTshirt]

Great quote from BBC world news.

""In 2003, an Iranian Ilyushin-76 troop carrier crashed in south-east Iran killing all 276 Revolutionary Guard soldiers and crew aboard.

Officials blame the high frequency of crashes on a lack of aviation spare parts due to US sanctions. "


:confused: :confused:

[Istorik]

The similar accident occurred 24 years ago, on September 29, 1981. Another C-130 crashed on approach in Kahrizak neighborhood, approximately 10 km from this day place. Then 80 people were killed (60 onboard and 20 on the ground). Among the victims was the Defence Minister of Iran.

[yggorf]

Am I the only one to find it sad that there is no message of condolences, or thoughts and prayers for the victims, on this thread, as there usually is when an accident is reported on pprune? Is it because of the nationality or religion of the victims?
Sad, very sad.

[Carnage Matey!]

Perhaps it was because it was journalists on board?

[G-CPTN]

Mrs G-CPTN's reaction was "I suppose the pilot was Iranian." . . .
This stunned me into silence. The thought had never entered my mind either way. I suppose if it had been a western airline, then someone here might have known the crew, and condolences could already have been expressed.

[Taildragger]

I watched the 6pm BBC News tonight, and was shocked to see this as a report in the fourth or fifth ranking. It was not reported until much later on in the Bulletins. I find that sad.
100 or so people dead and a smoking apartment block, and it was given no prominence at all.

[barit1]

I watched the 6pm BBC News tonight, and was shocked to see this as a report in the fourth or fifth ranking. It was not reported until much later on in the Bulletins. I find that sad.
100 or so people dead and a smoking apartment block, and it was given no prominence at all.

To us in the aviation business, it is indeed a tragedy.

But in the news business, it's a not-too-unusual event in a distant land where a hundred deaths happen more-or-less routinely.

(I seem to recall that foreign aid was welcomed during the Bam earthquake, so long as it didn't come from Israel. "Better an Iranian should die, than be saved by a Jew" was the official word.)

[Self Loading Freight]

About the condolences - Danny sensibly said recently that it would be better were these to be taken as read rather than repeated throughout a thread concerning an accident.

I don't think it's a reaction to the occupation of the victims...

R

[punkalouver]

Am I the only one to find it sad that there is no message of condolences, or thoughts and prayers for the victims, on this thread, as there usually is when an accident is reported on pprune? Is it because of the nationality or religion of the victims?

Seem to remember after the 737 crash in Greece that the moderator specifically said no condolences please. Perhaps this poster is one of those types that love to pull out the race card for their own racist personal gain...

[yggorf]

Sorry, I stand corrected: I had not read that request of the mods.
Punkalouver you're so funny... :rolleyes:

[catchup]

According intnl press, the commander had been forced by goverment to take an aircraft with a tech glib.

[G-CPTN]

>According intnl press, the commander had been forced by goverment to take an aircraft with a tech glib.

Well we all know not to apply for THAT vacancy then . . .

[Onan the Clumsy]

BBC Radio reports that the aircraft dates back to the era of the Shah, since when no spares have been available from the USA well that answers the question I had.

[barit1]

BBC Radio reports that the aircraft dates back to the era of the Shah, since when no spares have been available from the USA.

Balderdash! The Herc has been around FIFTY years, and aftermarket spares must be available from DOZENS of sources. During the Shah's regime I visited IACI (the large depot facility at Tehran Mehrabad) and they could have manufactured or rebuilt most any part on the Herc.

The US embargo should have had no effect on Herc operations if they were sufficiently motivated to DO THE JOB!

[punkalouver]

Punkalouver you're so funny...

...and usually right. Sadly, you are neither.

Seem to remember a herc crash in Tehran a few years back on takeoff roll they hit an Airbus that was being towed but was not on the runway. Possible simulated enginefailure training. Anyone ever get any more detail?

[SilsoeSid]

Was there much wreckage of the aircraft left at the crash site?
I mean, full of fuel, into a building.
There was FA left of the 757 at the PENTAGON!!

:E
SS

[Fox3snapshot]

Agree with you fully.

Having been to the Iranian airshow in Kish and seen the modification work on the B206 helo as an example and the fact that at one point they had a better serviceability rate on their F14's than the Yanks, it suprises me that these claims were made.

The reverse engineering capability they have perfected has been utilised in cloning the F14 engine, cloning the Phoenix missile and keeping fleets of C130's, P3' and Cobra helo's airborn to name a few. Lets face it the Americans have full access to their own spares and they still crash...regularly!

People shouldn't under estimate Iran or other sanctioned countries in their ability to field credible technical and human assets.

And I will say once again (as mentioned in a previous thread) that the Iranians I have dealt with here in the Middle East have been fantastic people, the reigime itself I have problems with but that is not isolated to Iran.

Additionally I pass my sympathy to the Iranian community and those PPruners from that part of the world, and I know there are some.

:hmm:

[Runaway Gun]

Fox3,

Did you see any flying F-14's at recent Iranian airshows then?

[Cargo Cult]

I think that it's interesting, given the gravity of the accident, that in contrast to comparable incidents taking place in "Western" countries - or involving carriers from the same - this accident has generated negligible response.
Or is it that there's no information leaking out of Iran?

[Art Field]

Very disturbing, if its true, according to one report I heard, was that the captain twice requested emergency recovery to the airport but was refused an approach on each occasion because the airport was too busy.

[Fox3snapshot]

Due to the rescheduling of the show and regional issues there was no military participation at all except in the trade area and the TF30's were on ddisplay there. The previous kish airshow however had the Tomcats present and the indiginous Phoenix missile.

Some more interesting notes...

"The initial order signed in January of 1974 covered 30 Tomcats, but in June 50 more were added to the contract. At the same time, the Iranian government-owned Bank-e-Melli stepped in, and agreed to loan Grumman $75 million to partially make up for a US government loan of $200 million to Grumman, which had just been cancelled. This loan save the F-14 program and enabled Grumman to secure a further loan of $125 million from a consortium of American banks, ensuring at least for the moment that the F-14 program would continue.

Iranian capabilities in this area may have taken place on February 11, 1985, when 25 Iranian F-14A Tomcats took a mass fly by over Tehran. In spite of the Western arms embargo, Iran been able to maintain a more-or-less steady supply of spare parts for its fleet of Tomcats, from Iranian aircraft industries based at 1st tactical air base in Tehran. The number of Tomcats in service with Iran is reported as many as 60 aircrafts. Some of these parts also seem to have been smuggled into Iran by Israel. Also there is rumor of Russians provided assistance to upgrade tomcats aging airframe. US government supplied arms to Iran in exchange for its assistance in getting hostages held in Lebanon released"


:cool:

[Violet Club]

Fox3

I agree with some of what you say about Iran's aerospace industry capabilities, or lack thereof – but there were absolutely, positively no Tomcats at the previous Kish Show in 2003, nor any AIM-54s for that matter.

They've been shown at other places but not Kish. Doesn't sound like you were there for that one.

If you've been to Iran and spoken to industry people there then you'll know they are immensely proud of what they have achieved but do rather tend to overclaim.

Rebuilding JetRangers, or PC-7s or whatever doesn't equate to an effective aviation industry. The old guys who got proper training are fading away, their facilities date to the 1970s, no modern tools...they have dreams and ambitions but not a lot to show for them.

My guess is that this war-weary and overused C-130 was not in the best condition.

VC

[Fox3snapshot]

If you have access to Air Forces monthly (particularly December 2002 edition and the Khoramshahr Exhibition which was an exclusive report) On display were F14's, Phantom II and F5 aircraft. It notes that the F14 has had numerous enhancement projects including the upgrade of the AWG-9 radar's range, integrating R-73 AAm and various other A/G weapons. Additionally the F4's were modified to carry the KH58 anti radiation missile and PL-7 and R-73 short range missiles. Also of worthy mention is the F5 single seaters which they converted to two seaters and with unavailability of MB seats integrated Russian bang seats.

Additionally the Scramble website still lists the F14A, F4 and F5's in the Iranian ORBAT, which if correct stands testimony to their ability in "keep'n em fly'n". Lets face it, the US F14's have or are making their final public appearances as they retire and are replaced by the Super Hornets.

I do correct myself however on refering to the previous Kish airshow, I was in fact refering to Khoramshahr.

:ok:

[Violet Club]

F3

Well, faced with such authoritative firepower from <genuflects> AFM <falls about laughing> I should really give way...

...but then again, nah.

The Iranians have done a solid job of keeping a vintage air force flying. Things were particularly tough during the Iraq war but they managed to scrounge enough outside help - and finally figured out that they should stop shooting their own qualified people and let the ones who were left out of prison.

Since then they have continued to keep a lot of their Shah-era air force in the air, but things are starting to creak.

Yes there are F-14s still flying, but the IRIAF has made no significant improvement to that aircraft's baseline capabilities and when they did try - integrating HAWK has an AAM for example - it was not a resounding success.

I bet the reliability of Iranian maintained TF30s is stellar.

I know several Iranian sources say they have integrated the R-73 on Western aircraft. I wait to see some credible evidence of this.

The same goes for the Kh-58 fairytales.

You are wrong about the two-seat F-5A conversions (Simorgh). They ARE still fitted with Martin Baker seats that Iran managed to acquire from somewhere. And that programme sort of proves my point. It was undertaken by HESA using the old Northrop drawings that were left behind at the old factory at Isfahan that was set up in the 1970s to build the same aircraft that 30 years later they modified very, very s-l-o-w-l-y in an oddball conversion programme that is not what any sensible air force would choose to do, if it had a choice.

Iran is desperate to get new aircraft. Its experience with Russian kit has been far from positive and if there was any way the IRIAF could get something better then it would. In fact, there are quite a few people there who would just love to be friends with the US once more and maybe get all those F-16s they planned for.

That day is still a bit far away. For the moment they are just about making do - but nothing more.

VC

BTW: The US is retiring its Tomcats not because its wants to but because the Navy can’t afford to keep them going in the face of Super Hornet and everything else that has to be paid for at the moment. To suggest that Iran is somehow better able to sustain its Tomcats than the USN is nonsense. The IRIAF dreams of having something as capable and as serviceable as the two squadrons of F-14D Bombcats that are left.

[Fox3snapshot]

As you hide behind a anonymous forum with little or no credible information in your profile, I hold far more respect and confidence in the AFM reporting than your speculation.

:rolleyes:

[hobie]

As a matter of interest, do I recall that most of the Iraqi Airforce hardware departed for Iran during the start of conflict in the area? ..... did it ever return to Iraqi or was it simply absorbed into Iranian Airforce control ? ..... my history escapes me at this time of night

Didn't the Iraqi's also have a few C130's that presumably went along for the ride ......

[TEEEJ]

In April 1991, the Iraqi foreign ministry published the following list of Iraqi aircraft flown out to Iran, and accordingly requested these aircraft back:

- 24 Mirage F.1EQ/BQ
- 24 Su-24MK
- 40 Su-22
- 4 Su-20
- 7 Su-25
- 4 MiG-29
- 7 MiG-23ML
- 4 MiG-23BN
- 1 MiG-23UB
- 15 Il-76
- 2 Boeing 747
- 2 Boeing 737
- 1 Boeing 727
- 1 Boeing 707

The Iranians put the Mirage, Su-22/24/25, MiG-29s and Il-76s into service. The Iraqis never had any C-130s in service, but used the An-12 CUB. The Iranians simply refused to return the aircraft.

It wasn't at the start of the conflict, but near the end when they realised that they would probably lose the lot.

[Fox3snapshot]

Do you know if any of the IL76's AWAC's variants? I have seen some random photo's around that indicate there may have been.

Cheerz

[hobie]

thanks for that info 'TEEEJ' ....... :ok:

[TEEEJ]

Fox,

Two Adnan are reported to have been flown to Iran. At least one of these has been photographed at an Iranian airport.

[Setpoint99]

Regarding the C-130 crash in Tehran, according to the blog "Regime Change Iran" at <http://www.regimechangeiran.com/>:

"Two experienced Iranian military pilots refused to take off in the aging cargo aircraft, which had failed to pass all mechanical and safety checks.

"Eventually, senior military personnel prevailed on a junior airforce pilot to take off with the sixty-five or so journalists and some other passengers, twenty five of whom have still failed to be identified.

"Shortly after take-off, the pilot ran into technical difficulties and sent out a Mayday but was told to stay aloft till permission was obtained for him to land at Mehrabad. Why? Because President Ahmadi-Nejad was departing Mehrabad in the brand new "holy" aircraft purchased by Supreme Leader Khamenei, to go to Saudi Arabia and airspace was closed till his flight left. Emergencies and the potential loss of life apparently carried no weight.

"When the pilot requested permission to take the C-130, which lands easily on desert terrain south of the capital and land in the desert, he was ordered to stay in the vicinity of Mehrabad airport. Sources reveal that the powers that be at Mehrabad did not want a plane full of reporters to land safely in the middle of nowhere and to have to deal with the resultant media outbursts as to the poor quality control and servicing of military aircraft.

"After more than 30-minutes of the crippled aircraft trying to stay up and Ahmadi-Nejad finally leaving the ground, the pilot was given permission to land. In his effort to avoid military housing complexes his course took him too close to a couple of ten story residential buildings and he clipped one with a wing, sending the aircraft plunging and killing those one board as well as people on the ground. . . .

"The Majliss (parliament) is currently meeting to impeach the Iranian Minister of Defense over the C-130 air crash."

[Pontius Navigator]

In the cold light of day, I am surprised that Carnage Matey has not withdrawn his insensitive comment from 6 Dec.