bounce landings

[Tacitus]

First of all i'd like to apologise for my english since iam not a native speaker . Many times in FS an airplane when it lands bounce one time before the final touch down , does this happen and in reality and if yes what are the appropriate actions afterwards ?Thanks in advance

[Gargleblaster]

I guess depends on whether it's a Cessna 172 or a B747. I only know about driving the former.

Yes, bounces happen to many people from time to time. As a passenger I've even experienced big jets bounce.

A bounce is normally due to touching (bumping) down at a too high airspeed and at a too high descent rate.

Stay calm, keep flaring by pulling back as needed and let the aircraft land.

DON'T push the nose down, will ruin your day and the plane. You'll land on the nose wheel, bend it as well as the engine mounts and the firewall, and make the prop go into the ground.

An airline captain did this to a beloved old friend of mine, a 1965 Cherokee. It was hostpitalized for weeks after and is now as wrinkled as somebody who has smoked for 80 years.

[Sans Anoraque]

Stay calm, keep flaring by pulling back as needed and let the aircraft land. Absolutely not. Full power, go around and do it properly the next time.

[BOAC]

Actually, Sans, not good advice for a Cessna 172 driver. If instructors did that every time the student bounced they would never land!:D

For a single, hold the attitude and apply a small amount of power to prevent the speed from decaying and your falling out of the sky from a great height - assuming, of course, runway left in front of you.

In an airliner, you CAN recover with power, but a g/a may be the best solution. All depends on the bounce. Some of them you simply log as '2 landings':D

[Sans Anoraque]

BOAC - still not convinced. An instructor may well have the skill to apply right power & pitch to prevent further bouncing, but as a rule of thumb I still think (esp for the inexperienced) the GA is best.

[Reverand Lovejoy]

Tacitus,

Sans has the exact frame of mind as I employ. If you are lucky to get it on the right spot with an airspeed that's too high and your pitch at the wrong attitude then there is only one action (and it should have been employed a long time before now!) and thats to stand up the throttles and have another go.

However.....

BOAC makes a good point (and has far more experience than me!) and that's the fact that a small aircraft will respond to your throttle/elevator/rudder inputs alot faster than the heavy iron purely because of inertia. This gives the small guy a bit of an advantage in this respect. He can make a power change close to the ground and it WILL have an effect on the aircraft. This I can personaly agree with as I have done it on more than one occasion. A light prop can almost create a pillow of air to sit his aircraft on instananeously whereas a jet has spool up and such and this is the difference.

Long story short......... Different strokes for different folks. Two very different procedures for two very different aircraft. A problem occurs when the jet pilot tries to use the same procedure he used in his light at the weekend and buries the wheels through the wing!!! On the other hand it would be silly if a light single went around at 800ft RA if the approach wasn't "stabalized"

We play the cards we've been dealt and make the best of the situation.

You can't witness this on flight sim so have a trial flight at your local aeroclub and ask for this procedure to be demonstrated. I am sure the best of them can scream down the approach and flare - sink - settle for a cheeky demonstration. If this isn't in line with there procedures then at least have a go at a go around and see how quick the small guy is to respod.

Whatever you do don't

keep flaring by pulling back as needed and let the aircraft land.

......the runway end will come up alot quicker than expected no matter what aircraft your in.

Hope I haven't bored you.

The Reverand

[BOAC]

Out of interest this from the Boeing 737 Manual (31/10/2002) - since I was in there for summat else:

If the airplane should bounce, hold or re-establish a normal landing attitude and add thrust as necessary to control the rate of descent. Thrust need not be added for a shallow bounce or skip. When a high, hard bounce occurs, initiate a go-around. Apply go-around thrust and use normal go-around procedures. Do not retract the landing gear until a positive rate of climb is established because a second touchdown may occur during the go-around

[rotornut]

When a high, hard bounce occurs, initiate a go-around.
I was in an Indian Airlines 737 that did just that at Poona (Pune)
Airport in 1989. But instead of going around the pilot insisted on landing. Amazingly, the gear apparently held up.

[karam]

Sans Anoraque:

Your comment about adding full power and going around in the event of a bounce seems a tad bit absurd considering the price of fuel these days. Maybe your instructor failed to teach you the appropriate method of dealing with a bounce...ie holding the back pressure and adding a small spurt of power to prevent your spine from popping out of your head. Going around is beneficial when you've made a complete cock up of the approach or in cases where there are runway incursions however it does not always have to be executed if things aren't going your way.

[touch_of_glass]

The thing is not to do a bounced landing in the first place. Most of such arrivals occur if the speed is a bit too high so keep that under control and go thru the motions of the flare correctly and things should work out ok for you.

[Sans Anoraque]

Going around is beneficial when you've made a complete cock up
like a bounced landing for example?

BTW, I trained in the US where fuel was 4 cents a gallon (or something like that).

[Gargleblaster]

Hi, I'm back :-)

People have commented on what I wrote: "keep flaring by pulling back as needed and let the aircraft land".

What I meant is protect the nose wheel. As karam says: "holding the back pressure".

I often land on small grass strips that are, mildly put, rather uneven, with 3-5 foot high humps. Some bouncing can't be avoided, and I'd be going around all day if...

Also, what is a bounce ? There is no idea in going a round after a small bounce, say to 2 feet above the runway, especially if you still have usable airspeed.

I agree that it's prudent to go-around, if you experience a violent bounce, you fly into orbit, travelling sideways wrt. runway heading, stall warning, etc.

[DeeCee]

I hope that there are no would be pilots reading this amazing mixture of advice. I was taught the following for light aircraft and it has always worked for me - some points have been mentioned previously;

Firstly, set up a good stabilised approach at the right speed and bleed the speed off over the hedge to the desired flare speed. Round out and hold off, gradually raising the nose until flying speed is lost and the wheels touch the runway. Continue holding back to keep the nosewheel off until it touches by itself.

If the speed is right it is unlikely that a bounce will occur, and if it does it will be minor.

If you get it slightly wrong and it bounces, application of power is only necessary if the bounce is uncomfortably high. You don't need much power to cushion the eventual touchdown.

Get it wrong, or you feel it is not right, apply full power for a go around and have another go. Woryying about the price of fuel is nonsense.

Dee Cee

[TotalBeginner]

Think you've got it spot on there DeeCee.

For the larger flying machines I think it really depends on weather it's a "skip" or a "bounce"

[Scoob]

If you bounce go around???? Don't get it. In light aircraft, under 10,000lbs, it depends on how much runway you have. If you have to put it on the end first time then a go around may be the best thing. If you have loads of runway the best thing is to land. Obviously if you are not that experienced then go around if you get flustered. If you are flying something like a 206 and a bounced landing gets you worried a go around would probably cause you more problems than just landing it.