To anyone involved with the ATC

[joe2812]

I'm looking to get involved with the local ATC Squadron here at Uni (which I believe is Welwyn GC).

The ATC site seems to be rather uninformative and I was wondering if anyone on here was involved at a cadet level, preferably the Hertfordshire & Buckinghamshire Wing and could answer some of the questions I have about the various roles an adult can take on.

Obviously i'm not an ex-serviceman and don't hold any particular skills which I could teach cadets, all I have is what I can vaguely remember from my own Squadron years back.

Is the ATC still looking for volunteers and if so would I be acceptable despite being an 18/almost 19 year old Uni student?

Any info or gen anyone can give me would be appreciated.

Thanks guys, :ok:

[scottyhs]

Hi joe,

Yes the ATC has just launched a brand new adult volunteer campaign to get more adults involved.

Dont know if you know but the staff structure has changed a bit now. If you want to go in as an officer first contact your loacal unit get some time down there as a CI and get the CO to apply for you (same as the old way you go through the officer boards etc..)

However if you dont want to be a Offcier but still in uniform there are now NCO adult ranks starting from Adult Sgt, then to Adult Flt Sgt then to AWO!

http://www.aircadets.org/index1.htm (This link might explain that)

However a piece of advice from seeing alot of staff come and go at my sqn is to get involved as a CI first and learn how that sqn operates as many ATC Sqns differ!

Need anymore help give me a shout!

Good luck!

P.S 19/20 Is now a good age for applying to me a junior officer in the ATC!!

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

You could always go to the Sqn and ask (or phone them). I am sure that they would be more than happy to give you the information that is required.

You could also try here:

http://www.aircadets.org/news_adultrecruitment.html

(I didn't check it out, so have no idea of the content but it should be appropriate)

Good luck.

Duncan

:D

[joe2812]

I wouldn't be looking to go in as an Officer with the ATC as i'd only be involved for a couple of years through Uni until I left to (hopefully) get a big boy's Commission.

Ideally the Adult NCO seems to suit but would I be right in thinking CI's are also uniformed?

The two CI's at my Squadron were (but saying that it was the most God-awful and poorly organised Squadron in the Norfolk & Suffolk Wing..)

I'll crack an e-mail off to the WGC unit and see what they're after.

Thanks for the swift replies, any more info mucho appreciated. :}

[scottyhs]

Well theoretically, a CI is not uniformed....

However we have a CI ex army who still wears his sometimes, although no one takes him seriously, alot of Sqns are looking for Adult Sgts maybe theres a thought?

[Professor Plum]

Hi,

If you want to join the RAF after uni, have you considered joining ULAS in addition to/instead of ATC?

Obviously, It'd depend on workload whether you could fit it all in.

CI's, being Civilian instructors, arent uniformed, but are a good way of getting involved with a squadron, before deciding whether to take things further.

[Spacer]

Hey Joe: It may not be much use, but my gf is involved with the Air Cadets, and if you have any specific Qs, pm me with them and I can pass them on for you :O

[Another St Ivian]

If you pop over to Air Cadet Central (http://www.aircadetcentral.net/forums/index.php), have a nose around the forums and maybe post your query in the, "Staff Mess", you'll get lots of good advice. The site has a large base of ATC personnel who usually do themselves quite well with answering queries like yours.

Best of luck!

[Neeps]

Correct me if I am wrong, but do you not have to be 20+ to be a CI given that some cadets can carry on until that age?

I was a CI and am looking into it again. Don't worry if you don't know much about the ATC or the RAF as you will be shown everything.

Best thing to do is to ring your local squadron (You can find the number on the air cadets site) and they can advise you further. They usually invite you for a look around the squadron and a chat.

Just a thought, maybe you shouldn't be posting such comments about your old ATC? A lot of people associated with the RAF and ATC read this, and I'm guessing some may not appreciate the comment.

Anyway, good luck with it.

[joe2812]

Thanks for the replies all,

Neeps - point taken, hopefully no-one will guess. Although I have been told it's much better with the new OC (new as in he wasn't there about 6 years ago!)

I'll drop the nearest Sqn a line and see what they suggest.

Cheers again, :ok:

[scottyhs]

No Neeps you can be a CI from the age of 18, which is the kicking out age for cadets if they havent reached the dizzy heights of Sgt... Of course i wouldnt know im past that....mwahahahahaha lol

Yeh ACC is good but theres too many people who have one view and one view only on things your best bet is to approach either your sqn or wing directly, wing and region always want more staff applicants to post to local sqns!

[Tiger_mate]

To be a CI you have to be over 18 years,and to work with cadets unsupervised, you have to be CRB (Criminal Records Bureau) cleared. ie Proven not to be a kiddy fiddler. which takes several months to come through.

The ratio of CI to uniformed staff is generally unbalanced and after a period of probation, you will probably be "encouraged" to wear a uniform either as VR(T) [officer] or adult Sgt which is not VR(T).

Attitudes and performance by various Sqns can be VERY differant. So if your first Sqn is a poor one, please do not tar the organisation as a whole with the same brush.
Although politics across the Corps is generally pathetic, and "Share rescources" with other ATC - Army and Sea Cadets appears to be a rude word.

[ibbi]

Just to confirm you do have to be 20 to apply to be a CI, unless you are a serving cadet.

Best bet however is to contact either the Wing or a Unit in the area, or indeed just tip up for a look.

[mgdaviso]

Just to dispel any rumours, you MUST be over 20 to be an adult instructor with the Air Cadet Organisation.

Also, for any uniformed role (adult NCO or officer) you have to commit to four years service, so please don't take the commitment level lightly.

In any case air cadet central is probably a better place to ask these questions.

HTH

[scottyhs]

You have to be 20 unless you have had any previous cadet service therefore you may join when you are 18 upon leaving the organisation as a cadet - LASER Review 2005

[Professor Plum]

You have to be 20 unless you have had any previous cadet service therefore you may join when you are 18 upon leaving the organisation as a cadet - LASER Review 2005

Do you have a weblink for that at all?

Just that when I was a CI (not very long ago), you had to be 20 regardless.

I'm curious because a friend of mine (ex ATC), whos 18 wants to be a CI, and has been told to come back when she's 20.

Our old CO is not being very helpful.

Cheers.

[ibbi]

Not wanting to polute Prunne with too much discussion about Spacies, however:


You have to be 20 unless you have had any previous cadet service therefore you may join when you are 18 upon leaving the organisation as a cadet - LASER Review 2005

Is incorrect. The LASER Review did not change the terms of service of Civilian Instructors, only over 18 Cadets and Adult SNCO's. The only change to civlians was the ability for ex cadets to join Volunteer Gliding Squadrons at 18 as CGI's if they were unable to serve any longer as a cadet (i.e. were 18, but not a Cadet SNCO).

Those of you who are in the ACO, check ACP20B for the criteria for Civilian Instructors - you will find that it does state that they need to be 20yrs old. If you wish to go into uniform, you will also have to spend a minimum of 6 months as a CI before being able to apply as either a Adult SNCO in the ATC, or for a commission in the RAFVR(T).

Feel free to PM me if you have any further questions on this.

[Cat5 in the Hat]

Is incorrect. The LASER Review did not change the terms of service of Civilian Instructors, only over 18 Cadets and Adult SNCO's. The only change to civlians was the ability for ex cadets to join Volunteer Gliding Squadrons at 18 as CGI's if they were unable to serve any longer as a cadet (i.e. were 18, but not a Cadet SNCO).

Is almost correct.

The minimum age for CGI has always been 18.
The change under LASER for VGS' was that if the cadet was a VGS Flight Staff Cadet (and had not made Sgt), then they could remain in the corps past 18.

[Postman Plod]

I would also recommend Air Cadet Central :

http://www.aircadetcentral.net/forums/index.php

You may indeed get people with only one view on something (isn't that normal?), but as there are a large number of members, you tend to get a large number of views, healthy discussion, and advice!

As for adult instructors, the minimum age limit is 20 as previously mentioned (except gliding schools). You will most likely join as a CI until you find your feet and gain some experience, and then the decision would be yours whether to go down the SNCO route, or the commission route (or indeed stay as a CI!). As has been mentioned though, you need to get in quickly to allow clearances to come through - now might actually be a good time to enquire even if you are under-age!

[scottyhs]

What i said is correct if you have been a cadet and left age 18 before reaching the rank of SGT you can become a CI at 18, i know because we have just had a cadet do it and it be approved by cranwell!

[Professor Plum]

What i said is correct if you have been a cadet and left age 18 before reaching the rank of SGT you can become a CI at 18

Can you provide a weblink to this source of information, or tell me which publication (ACP's etc) this regulation is in?

ibbi states:

Those of you who are in the ACO, check ACP20B for the criteria for Civilian Instructors - you will find that it does state that they need to be 20yrs old

Has this been amended, or does that regulation still stand? If it does, then I like to know how your mate go in Scotty! I didnt think CI's had to be approved by Cranwell.

The reason I'm asking is that I was a CI until a few months ago, and when I left, you had to be 20, even with previous ATC experience.

A friend of mine got to 18 and had to leave (she didnt get to Sargeant), and wants to become a CI. She has been told to come back at Age 20!

Obviously, I'm rather interested in this new development

[scottyhs]

I cant give you a link off the top of my head except tell you we have a CI - age 18!!!

I will try and find out tonight at Cadets

[Postman Plod]

Somebody is either telling porkies, or breaking the rules. Why would Cranwell get involved in appointing an under-age CI? If it is true however, it is an EXCEPTION, and an exception only.

Having just gotten off the phone from my Wing, I have had it confirmed that the minimum age for instructors is 20 - no exceptions - ex cadet, or no ex cadet. If they are 18, and not yet a Sergeant, they leave and come back at 20. In fact the break will probably do them some good anyway!

If HQAC are imminently changing the rules, then maybe that is a good thing, however as I have said, if true, this is an exception, not the rule.

[scottyhs]

It happened what do i know, im only a kid

[Tiger_mate]

"im only a kid"

What jet do you fly then?
:E

[Neeps]

I have had it confirmed that the minimum age for instructors is 20 - no exceptions

Thanks, I was sure I hadn't imagined it. ;)

[scottyhs]

"im only a kid"

What Jet do you fly??

No really i am only a kid!

[Green Meat]

Joe,

Frankly, don't bother. If you want to join the ATC because you want to become involved with helping out with the Cadet Forces, then join and best of luck, however at 18/19, you will be unable to take up an adult post in any case.

If, as it would appear, you want to join to give you a bit of experience before trying OASC again, then don't bother. You'll be a nuisance to your unit going back and forth at holiday times and you will gain far more valuable experience in one of the University based organisations such as UAS or even, dare I say, the OTC will stand you in better stead as it will actually prepare you for the job you want to do.

In additon, the Uni-based organisations give you a great opportunity to work and mix with your peers, giving you a wide range of experience for the forces than working in (note I say working, rather than being a cadet in) a uniformed youth organisation can.

I would not normally try and dissuade anyone who wanted to volunteer to help in one of these great organisations, but in your case Joe you should be selfish and take the route that will be of greater help to your future career.

GM

[joe2812]

Thanks for the info and opinions guys, mucho informative.

Decided against it now, maybe not the best idea, especially with time to go home etc as pointed out. I was looking for something really which would be character building, give me the opportunity to go out and do things... the ATC seemed like a good choice as it was at least remotely linked towards the RAF.

GM - thanks for that, i'll be looking at something else to get involved with in the new year. :ok:

Cheers again all.

[UberPilot]

Isn't there an Air Squadron attached to your college / University?

[joe2812]

UP - My Uni comes under ULAS but I have a lecture which clashes with the Squadron's Thursday night lectures.

Despite ULAS being really helpful my Uni have told me I couldn't miss the lecture.

The application process has been done now and I suspect this year's intake has already been selected.

Heres hoping next year's timetable will be a bit kinder!

[scottyhs]

Well its your call, i mean maybe if you just wanna help plan some events for the cadets thats something, being a member of staff in the cadets and going into OCT is totally different though!

[ibbi]

As the ATC is out (because of your age), have you considered joining either the TA or the RAuxAF rather than OTC/UAS?

[joe2812]

ibbi,

Funnily enough I enquired at the local unit (3 RAUXAF TPW at Henlow) about 4 days ago, and I have an info pack winging it's way to me as we speak. I've spoken with the 'rents and they're happy for me to go ahead with it.

Is an Auxilliary service of some sort a good idea in most people's eyes then?

I also have an application to be a Special Constable sat here too.

[UberPilot]

I also have an application to be a Special Constable sat here too

Noooooo. don't do it!!

I joined the Met as a Special last year to address my "lack of social diversity" and it was the biggest, worst, waste of time I've ever encountered.

Firstly, If your thinking of joining the Forces as an officer you're well above your average pig, secondly, they're generally thick as pig sh*t.

Seriously, I spent numerous Sundays with people who couldn't conjure up a GCSE between the lot of them.

Then I had a training Sgt ask me if I had the chance to be "promoted" to Sgt if I were a Pilot...................... Jesus.

[Crashed&Burned]

Getting back to the ATC.....

If you want to join, don't hold your breath. The Criminal Bureau checks take up to a year due to a huge backlog.

C&B

[aluminium persuader]

I was a CI at age 18. Was a few years ago, and I had come up through the cadets, although I only joined as a cadet at 17. Can't have done anything too wrong, though, cos I "retired " from ATC a Sqn CO a couple of years ago when my wife started work on our very own DF!

;)