ASTAC International??

[future atco]

Hi Guys!

Has anyone ever heard of ASTAC international? They are an avaition training company and have an ATC college at Rudloe Manor in Bath,Somerset?

I was just surfing the net and came across them. obviously its no where near as good as NATS but just wondered if anyone had had any dealings with them?

look forward to hearing from you

[Speedbird1T]

Hi future atco

I'm also looking to train in the UK towards an atc licence. There are 3 CAA approved training establishments.

In addition to the 2 you name there is also BAe System at Cwmbran, S Wales. There is no reason to believe that NATS is any better than the others. They will all have their pros and cons I imagine. I unfortunately have had no training at any of them yet so can't comment sorry.

BAW1T

[Spitoon]

Why should it be not as good as NATS?

If you have a licence at the end of it what more can you ask for? In many ways it's the training you get at a unit that makes the difference - and in that respect, my experience is that at it's often far better at non-NATS units.

[future atco]

calm down guys, i didnt want to start a debate!

being so new to all of this, i naturally assumed the NATS was the best, but appreciate that you can get trained, to the same standard, at other establishments.

I just have never heard much about ASTAC. I'm assuming that, unlike NATS, you have to pay to attend the college, rather than them employing you??

[2 sheds]

I think people just wondered why on Earth you should "naturally" assume that NATS is the best. What you can probably assume correctly is that NATS is the most expensive!

[rodan]

The standards that each college has to meet are identical, and they are assessed and regulated by the same branch of the CAA, however I wouldn't be surprised if the pass rates for both Rudloe and Cwmbran are better than those at CATC for the courses that they have in common (ie. ADV/I and APS).

This may be to do with the smaller course sizes and having more contact with a smaller number of instructors throughout the training. From personal experience of both systems, on a course at one of the private colleges I had one or two different instructors who knew me well and knew exactly what my weak points were and what I needed to work on. On a course at CATC, I had upwards of 10 instructors (sometimes significantly more), some of whom I sat with reasonably often, others of whom knew nothing about me and had only the comments on the report from the last sim run to go on.

I just have never heard much about ASTAC. I'm assuming that, unlike NATS, you have to pay to attend the college, rather than them employing you??
That is correct (although you can also pay NATS to train you, if you really feel like it). The private colleges exist mainly to train controllers for the ATC units that are not run by NATS, and there are many of them.

[Gonzo]

I also have a limited experince of training at another UK ATC college. What should be considered regarding pass rates and the like is that NATS require its trainee ATCOs to pass 'extra-curricular' modules, such as the 'Air/GMC' exercises on Aerodrome.

[Standard Noise]

Of late, our trainees have been going to ASTAC, and there seems absolutely no problem with the way they run courses (something to do with employing some of the ex-Bailbrook staff I believe).
Anyway, apart from getting your courses free, why else would you want to work for NATS?

[Dizzee Rascal]

What should be considered regarding pass rates and the like is that NATS require its trainee ATCOs to pass 'extra-curricular' modules, such as the 'Air/GMC' exercises on Aerodrome.

The AIR/GMC excercises also exists at BAE Training College(Dundridge) therefore I would imagine ASTAC also do it therefore I guess it's a standard thing and not an extra curricular module.

[2 sheds]

On the NATS ADI course, the Air/GMC phase is only required for NATS employees, i.e. it is a company requirement for their own staff. The course prior to that phase satisfies the requirements for the rating, therefore non-NATS employees are not required to take it. However. they can take it if their employers so wish (and are prepared to pay!)

[future atco]

ok.......
so if i wanted to work at say.....BRS-could i approach them about taking me on as a trainee but get them to fund my course at Rudloe??

[Dizzee Rascal]

so if i wanted to work at say.....BRS-could i approach them about taking me on as a trainee but get them to fund my course at Rudloe??

You could, but chances are, if they sponsor trainees through the system, they probably already have got people working for them (maybe as ATSA's) waiting for their courses to come up.

It's unlikely that you would get an offer of employment with the complete guarantee that they will defiantly train you (apart from the NATS cadet courses- please see many other threads!).

Certainly try go for it though, it's well worth it.

DR

[PPRuNe Radar]

BRS is (or will shortly become, don't know when the contract commences) NATS so I suspect the door is closed at that location.

[flower]

BRS ATC became part of NATS on the 1st of November

[Standard Noise]

So, no, we won't, and even if we had stayed non NATS, we wouldn't have as it's not that simple.
You'll have to apply for NATS along with the rest of the masses. There's no guarantee you'll get to work at BRS, or even at an airfield.

November 1st 2005, a day that will go down in history (hopefully for the better, but time will tell, time will tell!)

[future atco]

thanks 'standard noise' for your comments.

i have applied for NATS and have selection tests, along with the 'masses' in January but being new to this side of aviation, i really was just enquiring about the other possibilities available to me! I also have experience of working at BRS!!

[Standard Noise]

Just out of interest, it used to go something like this..............

When a vacancy arose for an ATSA at BRS, it was advertised around the airport staff and business partner staff (BA, Easy, Servisair etc).
Then when we decided to recruit an ATCO internally, the position was only open for our ATSA's to apply for. The last one who got the job had to sit through the NATS selection tests anyway (cos that's who the management paid to assess which ATSA was suitable).
Competition was fierce and had we stayed non-NATS, there was less chance of someone becoming an ATCO down that route than applying directly to NATS.

[PMS]

I would not see why the training at ASTAC would be inferior to any other provider. I agree with rodan that as the CAA would be regulating them they would have to meet minimum standards which they obviously do

[future atco]

I never said ASTAC training was inferior....

i was merely trying to find out information about them as i've spent many hours trawling through the internet and only coming across NATS for ATCO training-leading me to believe that they must be one of the best?!

I guess you could say its like buying a car............. someone may think Ford is the best because they've only ever heard so much of Ford......whereas someone else may say thats rubbish because they know other makes,such as vauxhall exist and that they are just as good,if not better in some areas?!

This is all very knew to me so all i'm doing is using exprienced people such as yourselves to help guide me through! But by some of the comments left on here,i do feel that the ATC world is very much a case of 'you either fit in or you dont'!? I hope thats not true tho!

thanks for all your comments guys.......

[Barnaby the Bear]

ATC is a fantastic environment to work in, with a great bunch of people. However (In no way inferring you), it is very easy to get a name if you upset people.
Please don't take that the wrong way, its not a gentlemans club, but it is a small world sometimes.. :E
As was said previously, all the colleges are regulated by the CAA, so there isn't a great deal in it, I would imagine.
All the best with your NATS application. Its hard work but well worth it in the end. :}

[nnelgcta]

Just a quick thanks to Rudloe and Stuart in particular for helping to resolve my lapsed APC. It was greatly appreciated and i wish all at ASTAC a very merry Christmas and best wishes for the New Year. A top place in my opinion..!