Army flashed by mob

[vecvechookattack]

Army flashed by mob (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005530666,00.html)

Disgraceful.

[An Teallach]

I don't know about disgraceful, but how long before OBL and his crews get's the same idea? After all, we showed the way when Maskelyne (http://www.maskelynemagic.com/6alexandriasuez.html) managed to hide the entire Suez Canal with lights and mirrors.

I imagine if the Iraqi Insurgents / Resistance were to set some powerful strobes on NVG-equipped chopper pilots, it could prove a bit of a problem.

[Professor Plum]

Shocking!

The choppers could have crashed!

If they had, and lives had been lost, would the farmers (or whoever the hell they were), been charged with Murder?

Irresponsible behaviour.

[vecvechookattack]

Wasn't talking about the nice farmers. What is disgraceful is....

The pilots were so alarmed by the “attack” at Long Crichel,Dorset, that they aborted their mission and returned to base


There was a day that you would be presented with a white feather for that kind of behaviour.

[Roadster280]

I have an idea.

Why not call up the chaps in Odiham, and ask for some "close air support" from a Wokka or two.

Apache hovers in the area of concern, baiting out the f***wits with torches. Said f***wits get their maglites out. As if like magic, a 3-ship of Wokkas appear over the (downwind) horizon and direct several Kilowatts of Night Sun onto the farmers. Then close to a low hover and give them about 30 tons of downwash. Would scare the **** out of them. All over in about a minute, problem solved. If they think a single Apache is scary, this little trick ought to make them think twice.

Good night flying exercise, practicing battlefield cooperation.

Assuming there are three serviceable Wokkas in Odiham, of course.

[vecvechookattack]

Now thats more like it. No running back to base there.

[RTR]

What a stupid bunch of idiots! Hard to believe that they could do something so daft. What would the outcome have been if one of the drivers had lost control and it crashed on them. What would they have done then? There is NO excuse at all for endangering an aircraft, not even for horses, farmers and rabbits!

The police should not hold back on this - they should throw the book at them. They could have killed some of our finest and possibly some of theirs!

Training is training and they had better get used to it!

Breathtaking! :mad:

[vecvechookattack]

Thats all very well you saying that, but its not your house, garden, horse, animals they are hovering over. NIMBY or what???


They Army have got Salisbury Plain to conduct their training. Why conduct training over a rural area when you can conduct your training on a quiet, livelihood free area?

[Professor Plum]

Thats all very well you saying that, but its not your house, garden, horse, animals they are hovering over. NIMBY or what???

Not at all.

My parents live in Suffolk, and I grew up there.

Theres always been a large number of low flying Chinooks flying over their small village. Recently theres been a few apaches too, and the occasional fast jet and Herc.

My parents (and me) have always appreciated the need for low level flying, even though they have pets which get scared $h1tless.

My parents neighbour also keeps horses, and he too understands the need (though he is ex army, and probably has a greater understandin than Joe Average).

I just think endangering peoples lives like that is completely irresponsible.

[vecvechookattack]

So do I. So thats why they should go to Salisbury and operate over the Plain. Endangering the lives of innocent civilians is something that the Military needs to steer well clear of. The Armed Forces would not be able to recover from another LF incident. It is totally and utterly irresponsible to be putting lives at risk just for the benefit of flying training.

[Professor Plum]

Fair point.

But there'll still be Chinooks, Pumas, Hercs, Fast Jets etc still flying Low Level.

Unfotunately its inevitable that people will be disturbed by it, and livestock scared etc.

[vecvechookattack]

Unfotunately its inevitable that people will be disturbed by it, and livestock scared etc

Yeah, your probably right. But I dread the day we have another incident. I'm not sure the UKLFS would be able to tolerate another incident, that'd be the death nail for sure.

[airborne_artist]

Had the AAC recced in daylight and warned the locals/landowners of the training?

If not, why not? Benson puts out warnings about night flying.

Anyway AlQ don't need to bother with RPG7s any longer - just tool up with some Maglites and they'll see off the aircav...

[Fg Off Max Stout]

Vec, me old,

Endangering the lives of innocent civilians is something that the Military needs to steer well clear of. The Armed Forces would not be able to recover from another LF incident. It is totally and utterly irresponsible to be putting lives at risk just for the benefit of flying training.

Military helo ops do not endanger the lives of civilians with the very rare exception of riders (but we've flogged that to death more times than I can remember).

I can also tell you that British military helicopters do not hover over civilian houses and gardens except on SAR missions where civvy lives are being saved. A lot of people have no idea of the effort and restrictions that go into minimising nuisance to the general public to a reasonable level and beyond.

The problem of people using lasers and high power torches is significant. The police need to grip this situation because it is a very real danger - I have been flying at about 250ft at night and had the entire crew's NVGs backed off by some t*at with a spotlight (it's happened in the hover in a confined area as well). They'd think twice if we were allowed to send a bit of lead laser back the other way.

[SilsoeSid]

One phrase that comes to mind for me in this case,

Actions On!

What are the actions on for contact with the enemy, during any phase of the mission?
If this was in a training scenario especially, then the actions should be taken...No?

Actions on NVG Systems failure?
There must be some there somewhere!



Or will the IA on encountering anything daring to alter the mission profile of the almighty Apache, be to run home and tell mother?

Just curious in these changing times,
:confused:
SS

[Compass Call]

According to our local paper, the landowner at Crichel Down had given the army permission to use his land for low-flying exercises.

The culprits are probably local yobs or poachers out rabbit spotting.

CC

[wingman863]

Take note any future adversaries - shine a light in an apaches face. All T-55's around the world are being fitted with the foglight from the options pack as we speak.

But seriously, is this not a massive problem? Will Apaches be cleared for operations in war zones with street lights? What about illumination flares fired by troops?

[HEDP]

Silsoe,

Not a very informed post if I may say so, you need to check out what an Apache is equipped with, IMHO,

HEDP

Oh, and the actions on would be to neutralise the threat, perhaps not acceptable in blighty!

[Professor Plum]

Army flashed by mob

I was hoping this thread would be about a load of young ladies getting their Baps out.

I was sorely dissappointed! :(

[SilsoeSid]

Silsoe,

Not a very informed post if I may say so, you need to check out what an Apache is equipped with, IMHO,

HEDP

Oh, and the actions on would be to neutralise the threat, perhaps not acceptable in blighty!
Have they retro fitted curtains after the conflict in deepest Dorset?

Actions on NVG failure - Neutralise Darkness!!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/suffolk/going_out/music/features/the_darkness/wallpaper/images/01_band_180.jpg

Hardly surprising it would not be acceptable in blighty!!!!
"Just listen to the rythm of my heart"

:p
SS

[Neptunus Rex]

Roadster 280

One evening back in the 70's, I was joining the circuit at Townsville (North Queensland) in an SP2H. The runway threshold was adjacent to the town common, a nature reserve. One of our mates from a local flying school was conducting night circuit training in a Cessna 150 and we heard him complain to ATC that he was being spotlighted on finals by some hoons (yobs) in the common. Sure enough, as we came down finals, the hoons flashed their quite powerful spotlight at us. Not to be outdone, we returned the favour with our 9 Million Candlepower searchlight. We then treated them to a decibel concerto as our two Wright Cyclones plus two Westinghouse jets reached full power in a low go-around. They were still stumbling around trying to recover their night vision when the police arrested them. Seemed to fix the problem.

Neppie :cool:

[owe ver chute]

It just might be that the crew departed the location in an effort to be neighbourly, after all we are told to do so all the time!
Might also be that the press release was "sexed" up a bit to impress upon the idiots involved just how dangerous it is to shine bright lights into the cockpits of low flying aircraft, imagine what could have happened if the crew had been wearing good old NVG!

[Roadster280]

Neptunus Rex:

Good drills, well done. Retina-scorch is an effective deterrent. As is blast and downwash. As are 30mm rounds, but that's for war use only.

If the Dorset farmers were in Iraq, which of the three options would they have got? And how many Iraqis point torches at military helicopters?

[JTIDS]

On a training mission to a specified target, suddenly from all round the target bright light shines at you, backing down the googles so you can't see...

Actions on google failure are climb to a safe altitude, going back to the target is pointless as you'll get shined on by torch light again, so going home seems to me a perfectly sensible idea...

All the above is of course just hypothisis, but those who suggest the crew deserve white feathers are I feel, going too far.

As for low flying just over dedicated small training area's such as the plain, what is the challenge in flying over an area where you work in all year round. Low flying is annoying, but the training has to be done... Unless of course you think it should wait until the crews get out into theatre for the first time.

[SilsoeSid]

JTIDS;
As for low flying just over dedicated small training area's such as the plain, what is the challenge in flying over an area where you work in all year round.
Like around Long Crichel, Dorset ?

Seems to me that the 'protest' was about the persistant use of the local area for training. :p

Actions on google failure are climb to a safe altitude, going back to the target is pointless as you'll get shined on by torch light again, so going home seems to me a perfectly sensible idea...
So that's it then! All that an enemy has to do is send out the bicycle troops to cordon off a target area.
When you hear an Apache coming, switch on the light!
Mission aborted! :ok:

I hope I haven't said anything classified!!! :ooh:

:ugh:
SS

[JTIDS]

There is all the difference in the world between a standard training trip and contact with the enemy. Or should they have pressed on, lost visual references and run the risk of flying into UK civilians?

[SilsoeSid]

Or should they have pressed on, lost visual references and run the risk of flying into UK civilians?
If they had pressed on they would possibly have been flying away from the lights!!!

Sorry, I have only ever sat in one, on my EWI course, and not actually flown one, but are these aircraft like moths, or are you able to fly away from light???

I didn't realise the MMR can distinguish between UK civis and civis of other nations!!:p

:8
SS

[Talking Radalt]

Surely action on "google" failure is to Ask Jeeves? :)

[Ariston]

I know a guy whose immediate IA is to stow his goggles in the boot;)

Seriously though, this is an arrestable offence and is something that the Police Air Support Units are taking a very active interest in - Just wait until the yobs discover industrial green lasers! That will make you run away.:uhoh:

[SilsoeSid]

Stowing goggles in the boot an arrestable offence!!!

Blimin' Labour Government!!

[Roland Pulfrew]

Ariston

What's the difference between Immediate Actions and Immediate Immediate Actions? ;)

[BEagle]

For the former you use SOPs, for the latter you use standard SOP procedures!

[fatobs]

Happens up here on a regular basis, not as if you get many Helos flying around at night, particularly enjoy it on a very dark night while on a SAR shout.

But then what do you expect from the uneducated masses that are found in these parts!!

[Ariston]

Ah you got me there. Its those NVG Goggles wot dunnit.:}

[Front Seater]

Bl00dy Hell! I nearly got suckered into it - if only you lot knew you would realise how silly you are making yourselves look with this thread and how ill informed Sky News (and the rest of the media) is with this story.

I was about to offer some guidance, but am now enjoying it that I cannot wait for the next post, article or news video footage! Also, if you lot can't be bothered to find out/ask about AH before jumping in with both feet then you are on your own.

Hey - I am with you all on this one - why let the truth get in the way of a good story and this is a good story - isn't it?

:ok:

[HEDP]

Awww now you've spoilt it Front Seater! I've been enjoying the watching the uninitiated going off at a tangent, how's life where you are?

HEDP

[scottyhs]

Stupid though, if those pilots would have dies then how would the bloody farmers have felt, simple answer take a couple of chinooks over with a few miniguns on the back loaded with balnks and lay a few thousand shots out towards em....that will make em **** themselves!

[Paterbrat]

...brave or incredibly stupid in a hot zone to be shining anything anywhere near an Apache I would have thought.

[SilsoeSid]

...brave or incredibly stupid in a hot zone to be shining anything anywhere near an Apache I would have thought. How about a GLTD or more simply, this little baby!!


http://remtek.com/arms/fn/p90/laser/laser.jpg


All your 'front seat' technology won't get you away from the old cold war threat of the man waiting round the corner!!


Front Seater, you don't seem to realise how silly you lot appear to everyone else.
"Brave, Brave, Brave, Brave Sir Robin" (http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/runaway.wav) , springs to mind!!

"When Danger reared its ugly head,
He bravely turned his tail and fled
Yes brave Sir Robin turned about
And gallantly chickened out.. "

:E
SS

[Talking Radalt]

"I did not! That's not true!"

;) :ok:

[Von_Strohm]

On the other hand.... the chick with the horse looks cheeky! :E