RAF base awaits fighter decision

[vecvechookattack]

I hope that SMG stays open. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4443724.stm)

[caspertheghost]

And another one bites the dust. Sad news indeed. Why don't they close the rubbish bases instead of the good ones?

[ORAC]

But they got rid of the Jockistani CRC didn´t they..... :ok: :E

[BEagle]

St Mawgan, Chivenor, Tangmere, Thorney Island - all far too nice. So the MoD either closes them or give them to someone else.

Valley, Kinloss, Lossiemouth? Hmm, not much potential for sale. So they hang on to them. Plus Grumpy Gordon will be happy as it'll keep his cronies content.

Why not close MoD Main Building and sell it - and move the MoD to Inverness!

[effortless]

Why not close MoD Main Building and sell it - and move the MoD to Inverness!

Much too far from one's clubs dear boy, handy for the grouse though.

[Jackonicko]

"St Mawgan, Chivenor, Tangmere, Thorney Island - all far too nice."

And if we're talking about places from which you can no longer have a flying tour, then add Abingdon, Brawdy, Church Fenton, Colerne, Honington, Hullavington, Leconfield, Pershore, Stradishall, Thurleigh, Wattisham, West Raynham, Wyton,

Soon to be joined by?:

Benson, Coltishall, Cottesmore, Leeming, Lyneham, Marham, Odiham, Wittering

Has Scotland actually lost a major airfield since 1957?

[caspertheghost]

I don't know, Jackonicko, but since there are only 3 up there it would be a bit harsh!
What about Machra, Macraho, Makra:mad: Campbletown Minor Aerodrome?

[Jackonicko]

There were wartime bases in Scotland that have gone. My Dad flew from Tain occasionally, and once crashed at Sumburgh, while there was Turnhouse, Dyce, etc. But Scotland seems to have escaped late- and post-Cold War cuts entirely unscathed, when the strategic rationale for ASW at Kinloss and for AD at Leuchars has vanished.

The logic of locating JSF as far as it's physically possible to get from the carriers it will serve also escapes me.

And on top of all that, there seems to be a slow but inexorable drift towards greater devolution for the 'Porridge Wogs' and with that in mind, it would seem sensible to limit the amount of national infrastructure on territory that may one day be part of some-one else's nation. Especially if the cost of doing so is that we throw away infrastructure on our own soil.

[caspertheghost]

I would suggest they're keeping the Nimrods at Kinloss because of the considerable infrastructure that's already there or has recently been built for the MRA4.

[airborne_artist]

Soon to be joined by?: Benson, ...

Doubt that CAE (http://www.cae.com/www2004/Products_and_Services/Military_Simulation_and_Training/Training/mshatf.shtml) would be too happy to move MSHATF in a hurry.

[Big Tudor]

Has Scotland actually lost a major airfield since 1957?
Yes, they lose Barra twice a day, every day! ;) Ok, a sorry attempt at humour I know.

I'm guessing (probably somewhat naively) that there are significant training opportunities to be had in RAF Jockistan. For the FJ boys, rapid access to some of the finest low flying systems in the country, same for the ranges. Does being close to the carriers home port really matter that much bearing in mind they won't be there most of the time?
For the Kipper Fleet, big play areas out in the Iceland Gap and North Atlantic that are far enough away from civil airspace to be useful. Plus the infrastructure already exists at ISK for the mighty hunter.

Of course, the cycnic in me wonders whether this is all a sweetener to Scotland following the decimation of the Army Regiments up there!

[BEagle]

But the most apt name for a Jockistani base was, of course, HMS Tern in the Orkneys....

Because its real name was Twatt. It remained a reserve station under Lossiemouth's control until January 1949 and was then retained by the RN until sold off in 1957.

Other places for your list, Jacko:

Acklington, Andover, Bassingbourn, Binbrook, Bovingdon, Gaydon, Gravely, Kemble, Little Rissington, Manby, North Weald, Oakington, Strubby, Swinderby, Syerston

And those are just the ones in civilised parts of the world! All were still open when I joined the RAF.....

[Krystal n chips]

Can we stop this nostalgic wallowing please ;) --it's making me feel very old as well as reminding me of several of the many reasons I joined in the first place :D ----all now closed of course !

[Art Field]

Waterbeach, West Malling, Wymeswold, Booker, White Waltham, Upwood, Upavon.

[An Teallach]

Waterbeach, West Malling, Wymeswold, Booker, White Waltham, Upwood, Upavon.

Mornington Crescent! :p

[BEagle]

Finningley?? I was only referring to stations in civilised parts of the world. The Scargill Republic doesn't fall into that category in my view.

Somehow Doncaster and navigators deserved eachother....

[althenick]

There were wartime bases in Scotland that have gone. My Dad flew from Tain occasionally, and once crashed at Sumburgh, while there was Turnhouse, Dyce, etc. But Scotland seems to have escaped late- and post-Cold War cuts entirely unscathed, when the strategic rationale for ASW at Kinloss and for AD at Leuchars has vanished.

Taking it from a defence-wide point of view I think you'll find that Scotland has taken its fair whack of cuts. Rosyth? Crombie? Pitreavie? Lochinvar? Dalgetty? Altbea? Turnhouse? to name but a few.

[John Farley]

I appears you kids can't remember Driffield

[Rakshasa]

So... when do they announce publically that Fylingdales has been sold off as a giant microwave? :}

[BEagle]

JF - my list was restricted to places in nice parts of the UK which were still RAF flying stations when I joined.

Driffield had been a Thor base and then virtually abandoned years before I joined. But I understand that the Blackburn Aircraft Works test flew the odd Bucc from there whilst HoSM was being resurfaced in 1967-8.

But these days it's a grunt base where squaddies learn to drive lorries by numbers.

Now if Duncan Sandys had never been voted in, perhaps I might have flown P1121s from Merryfield.....

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/nw969/P1121.jpg


I was once told that 'they' were going to name the P1121 the Hurricane 2. As a former 'awker, do you know whether that was true?

[passpartout]

"Somehow Doncaster and navigators deserved eachother..."

So what does that say about Valley and pilots?

Plank.

[BEagle]

Well, plank dear, Valley was virtually free of talking-TACAN oxygen thieves, for one thing. Just the ones on the Whirlwinds.

I must admit to being somewhat mystified at the current hatred of the place - we had a great time when I was there. And that was when there was only 1 bridge off the island and you had to drive through Bangor to get to the mostly single lane A5. Nowadays there's a dual carriageway all the way to England.

And 6Z3, remember the legs on Dragon Room Mary? I'll bet you do....

[Roadster280]

"But these days it's a grunt base where squaddies learn to drive lorries by numbers."

Non.

It is derelict. RAF Leconfield is the sole place (fish joke anyone?), and is tri service to boot. Blue jobs learn truck mashing there too.

Correct me if I am wrong here, but it was a highly foresighted individual or committee that came up with the 30s expansion period design of aerodrome. All the places that are/have been closed in the last 30 years are of this type. I.e bloody useful. No-one would complain if Netheravon was swapped for Coltishall on the grim reaper list.

As an aside, Upavon was the oldest station in the RAF when I was there. Went back years later on Army course. Middleton block was the RAChD HQ. Yes, I do know why it was called "Middleton". Bloody disgrace. Place was a shambles.

Grrr!

[Blacksheep]

It appears you kids can't remember DriffieldI remember Driffield John, but then I'm no kid. Did anyone mention Middleton St George? ...or Thornaby for that matter, I used to go to the BoB open days at Thornaby. Teesside doesn't count as civilisation these days, of course. :(
At least my Alma Mater (Halton) is still open - almost.

When I joined up there were more overseas bases* to be posted to than there are UK bases today. There were about 110,000 more of us to serve there though. :(

*Lots of them were sh*teholes mind...;)

[OKOC]

Syerston is still open-or it was when I was there a month ago-Vigilants & Vikings and doing a good job.

[BEagle]

Cadet gliding is hardly in the same league, worthwhile though it undoubtedly is...

When I fist rattled along the A46 in my 100E Anglia, Jet Provost flying at Syerston was in full swing and the station was as busy as most.

But even back in 1978, some 10 years later, the old station looked like a ghost town and was slowly crumbling away...

[teeteringhead]

Syerston is still open ... but the OM is now derelict - having been an Islamic Study Centre (!!!)

Wymeswold
.... aah Wymeswold ... JP first solo age nineteen-and-a-half in XP 667 after 6 hours 30 dual .....

...... you tell that ter the young folk today and they'll not believe yer........:D

in my 100E Anglia ..oh BEags ...:suspect: ... at least I had an MG TC in those days.....

[Gainesy]

Just a quick mention for sunny Lindholme-on-the-Bog. Oh and Hemswell.

[BEagle]

The Anglebox was inherited from the family business - we'd had it since 1958! 0-60 in about 29 seconds when new and still blessed with all of its 36 bhp. Flat out it would allegedly do 73 mph if you could stand the racket and vibration.

Eventually it was sold at auction for £15 - a pile of railway sleepers from the old Taunton - Chard railway line went for £16!

However, when I went back to Cranwell after university, I did so in a 3 year old MG Midget! Even that had boasted a mere 65 bhp...and 0-60 was a leisurely 14.6 seconds!

So many names of once proud RAF flying stations being recalled on this thread - and many were still active in the 60s and 70s; we've not even mentioned the likes of Weston Zoyland etc from the 1950s.

[Logistics Loader]

As St M is no longer reqd, does that mean our burger eating cousins from across the pond are no longer there too..??

Also, surely more SAR is carried out in the Atlantic than the coastal waters of Scotland ????

How long before QBM is no longer reqd as the airport has International status. It will be easy to use in the future !!!

[vecvechookattack]

Very Sad (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/4443724.stm)


very very sad (http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=edponline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED17%20Nov%202005%2016%3A52%3A08%3A000)

[BEagle]

What a coincidence....

Adam Ingram, MP for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow, is Armed Forces Minister.

Dr John Reid, MP for Hamilton North & Bellshill, is Secretary of State for Defence.

Gordon Brown, MP for Dunfermline East is Chancellor of the Exchequer.

....and so an excellent base in Cornwall is effectively ruled out, whilst the porridge-wog bases are promised lots of jobs and future investment.

I smell a deep-fried Mars bar plot.

[1.3VStall]

Don't forget the grass airfields that we have lost - Bicester (now a civilian gliding club) and Swanton Morley (no idea what goes on there now).:{

[newswatcher]

Last I heard was that the Army had also moved into Swanton Morley - light armoured units?

[Tim Inder]

1.3V - you don't want to know - really!

[caspertheghost]

"What a coincidence....

Adam Ingram, MP for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow, is Armed Forces Minister.

Dr John Reid, MP for Hamilton North & Bellshill, is Secretary of State for Defence.

Gordon Brown, MP for Dunfermline East is Chancellor of the Exchequer."

Yes, that's nice, but since none of the bases in Scotland are anywhere near any of their consituencies what does it matter?
If one of the bases, say Lossie was to close, Scotland would lose a third of it's Stations. St Mawgan closes and the percentage is a lot smaller.

[OKOC]

Casper...

How many bases have we got in Cornnnnwall then?

[vecvechookattack]

2. St Mawgan and Portreath. Are there any others?

[caspertheghost]

And Kernow is quite small, Scotland's quite big. I'm not trying to justify the closure by any means, just trying to put across the point that maybe it's not a huge conspiracy theory planned by them up north.

[BEagle]

Well, sorry, but I'm convinced that some beancounter is being told to maximise the value of whatever they can flog off, and to keep Jocks in jobs. Defence interest coming a long way behind the land value and the labour party fan club's interests.

The loss of St Mawgan would also have a side effect on trans-Atlantic AAR trails as there'd be only Culdrose, Exeter or Cardiff to use for Bracket 1 abort aerodromes.....

How much was spent bringing Leeming up to the state it is today for the F3? A whole new road off the A1, plus gazillions on infrastructure. So guess what - it'll go to the damn dung-eaters like every other half decent base. Abingdon, Chivenor and Wattisham to name but a few.

[pr00ne]

BEagle,

At last they have had a good twenty years out of the upgraded Leeming, many a fine permanent RAF peace time station failed to make that at all!

[Wyler]

What about the overseas bases?

My first ever school was at RAF El Adem, Tobruk, Libya. Flew there in a Comet via Malta where we stopped for tea! Prior to that my Dad was stationed in Tripoli.

El Adem was great, we lived in Tobruk and were bused to school every day. The NAAFI was in an old white fort on the outskirts of town and the RAF used to lay on 5 tonners to take us to the beach at weekends. Back then, personnel were allocated beaches based on rank. Airmens beach, Sgts beach etc. Our beach had a Cafe, nice secluded swimming area and some great fishing spots. The airmens beach was a shack on a huge expanse of rough coastline. You would not get away with that today.

[althenick]

How much was spent bringing Leeming up to the state it is today for the F3? A whole new road off the A1, plus gazillions on infrastructure.

... But probably no where near as much as was spent on the Trident refit facility (Ship lift + refit area - only thing that wasn't built was the big metal hanger over the work area - would have cost 3 Million) in Rosyth when the tories decided to move it to Guzz and then sink (quite literally!) 100 of millions into solidifying the ground underneath the old battleship dry docks. :suspect:

Beags - word of advice - Whenever your talking about defence WRT government, Dont mention the shortcomings of New Labour. I'm not a supporter of them myself but I also know that other parties are no better.
May I suggest "The current Government" :D

Gut Fawkes - The only person to enter parlement with honest intentions:ok:

[BEagle]

I'm the first to criticise past Tory ar$es such as Duncan Sandys..........1957 Defence White Paper

Or Old Labour such as Denis Healey and Harold Wilson........TSR2, P1154 and HS681.

But by now the lessons should have been learned. NooLabia called out the regular reserves for the first time since Suez for a war of questionable legality.

No Tory government in the last 50 years has tried to punch above its weight as much as has NooLabia.

And yet some fools still voted them back in....

[althenick]

...And lets not forget John Nott

:mad:

[effortless]

Funnily enough, because of this thread, I drove into Tangers on the way home yesterday. Admittedly I have flown over it many times since it closed but driving in really hit me as to what a huge part of my youth and our history has been destroyed. It is worse in a way than derelict airdromes. At least one can sit on disused runway and imgine the sights and sounds of our past.:{

[pr00ne]

BEagle,

Are you saying that a Michael Howard Government would NOT have gone into Iraq, or Afghanistan?

I think that if the Tories HAD got in the only difference would be that the forces would still be in all the places they are in now but with a more commercialised, privatised and contractorised infrastructure and supporting element.

[BEagle]

Perhaps they would. But I think there would have been less American - or rather, Bush - influence and more listening to the UN.

Perhaps even an exit strategy?

[Maple 01]

No Tory government in the last 50 years has tried to punch above its weight as much as has NooLabia.

Cough**Suez**

[BEagle]

OK - 49 then...

From the BBC:

Considered to be the most significant turning point in post-war British foreign policy, the Suez Crisis refers to the British decision to join with France and Israel in a military intervention to attempt to prevent General Nasser from nationalising the Suez Canal in the autumn of 1956. Nasser was promoting Arab nationalism throughout the Middle East and had become an increasing source of irritation to the British and the French.

The Anglo-French assault upon Egypt, which began on 31 October 1956, provoked a furious response from the USA. President Eisenhower's condemnation of the attack triggered a sterling crisis which forced the government to withdraw from the venture. This angered the French, and further revealed Britain's growing dependence on the support of the US.

One of the first signs of a weakening UK. And yet barely 12 months later that utter ar$e Duncan Sandys started the destruction of the RAF which has continued ever since.