To single or to twin

[Wingman09]

G’day

I am about to finish my training for CPL, I am looking at doing a MEIR next year. My current situation will leave me with 90 excess hours to burn after my CPL. What will be more beneficial to me, using these hours to build PIC and TT. Or should I use these hours to build multi IF time. I understand I am not walking out of the class into a multi job with 250+ hours. But will I be better off having the TT or the extra 20 odd multi hours??

I would appreciate any feedback

Cheers

Wingman09

[Jawz]

get ya money and buy some blue-chip

[The Bunglerat]

Money is precious, and there never seems to be enough. As such, you have to be ruthless when formulating a strategy for your career development. If you don't have to spend the money, then don't. I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, and have had to claw my way up the career ladder every step of the way - a story I'm sure many of us are familiar with. As much as I would love to have been able to splurge on endorsements/type ratings for this and that, I've always based my decision on a risk/return analysis. In other words, what kind of return can I expect for my "investment," and WHEN?

The "when" part is of utmost importance, because whilst it's a given that you will ultimately have to get the multi endorsement and instrument rating if you want to have a career in aviation, do you need it NOW?

Case in point: In my old job as an Instructor, my opinion was often sought from junior guys as to whether they should get their instrument rating straight away. Bear in mind, these were Instructors with only 250-300hrs total time, still babes in the woods themselves. I would respond by telling them that I was already a Grade-1 with >1000hrs before I did my instrument rating. Why? Because I knew that if I'd got it much earlier, I never would have had an opportunity to put it to use. There was no way the boss would let me loose in a Baron or Chieftain with such minimal experience, and I didn't have enough experience to teach multi/IFR either. Therefore, other than a boost to my ego for being able to say I could fly IFR, there was simply no point. The only opportunity I would ever get to use it would be at my own expense, and who the hell can afford to blast off on private IFR trips all the time on an Instructor's wage?

Of course, people only hear what they want to hear, and most of the guys went off and did it anyway. The end result was when they came up for their first renewal 12 months later, they hadn't consolidated their skills, had lost the finesse in their instrument scan and precision hand flying, had forgotten a good portion of their IFR operational knowledge - and so they all ended up parting with even more large sums of money they couldn't really afford, just to get back up to speed so they could pass the renewal.

Then again, if you're hoping to develop your career in something other than instructing, there are other factors to consider. But I say again: Unless you've got money to burn, you simply can't afford to spend it on anything unless there will be a tangible return for your efforts. Only you can decide which is of most value, but in the meantime I hope my story has helped provide a certain perspective.

P.S. As soon as I got my IFR ticket, I obtained my multi-engine training approval. Straight away I was putting the qualifications to use in my job. Not once in the 5 years since doing so have I not been current. I have been fortunate to amass a fair amount of multi-IFR experience (both instructing and charter), and best of all it didn't cost me a cent beyond my initial training. My employer covered any costs associated with recency/renewals, because it was part of my job description. That's what I'm talking about, as far as having a strategy and understanding the value of "when" to do it.

[jandakotpilot]

Gotta agree with The Bunglerat there.

Wait until you have alot more experience under your belt before touching twins.

210/206 exp is always a plus for your 1st single job

[The Messiah]

The sooner you fly twins the better off you'll be.

The rest of the world go from basic training straight to regional jets, it really isn't that difficult.

It doesn't matter how many hours someone has in 206's in the bush they still have the same troubles with their multi training as someone fresh from a CPL.

If single engine hours were beneficial to training onto a twin the books would mention it don't you think?

[devolved]

Hey Wingman, what country are you doing you training in?

As i am also about to start a multi IF rating (in New Zealand). So I would be also interested to know if more twin IF hours would be more beneficial for employability, than say more total hours in the single. ie 20 extra multi IF hours, or 60 single VFR hours?

Cheers
:} :confused: :eek: :sad: :ouch:

[Wingman09]

devolved

I am also training in new zealand.

thanks for the feedback so far, please keep it coming if you have any advice or suggestions.

Wingaman09

[The Bunglerat]

Messiah, you raise a good point to which I share the sentiment. However, comparing the Australian aviation scene against the UK/Europe/US is the old apples 'n' oranges argument. There simply is no comparison.

Unless a local pilot's career is kickstarted by a stint in the military or the "hallowed" QF cadetship, the fact remains that EVERYONE does the hard yards of GA. That means lots of single-engine time in C206's/210's, at some point followed by multi-hours in Barons/C310's/PA31's etc, followed by the first turbine gig and so on. When comparing our lot in life with those young upstarts flying B737's in the UK and elsewhere with 300hrs total time, it does seem rather unfair doesn't it. Nevertheless, it's the apprenticeship we've all had to serve, and that's just the way it is.

[Continental-520]

Yeah, you bet it's the apples and oranges argument.

They're flying jets at 300hrs in some of the world's most unkind, dodgy and generally $hit weather in countries where they actually have some decent terrain to speak of.

Whereas here, in Aussie, we fly pistons for 2000hrs + in a country where the weather is more often CAVOK than anywhere else and we don't really have any terrain to speak of.

Yeah, it really is a different ball game...

I know a guy with less TT than myself (although he is a little older) who's a Captain, yes, a Captain on an A320 in the UK.

What are we doing here?

That said though, I still love it immensely.

520.

[ViagraDependent]

Wingman09,

Why not do your Instrument rating in a single, look for a job flying singles, VFR, and on any dead/positioning legs, go IFR and pay the boss the difference in flight plan/average flight time costs (just don't let them rip you off).

Then when it comes time to fly the twins, you wil be more comfortable in IMC, than someone who is just fresh off their MEIR, and it should only take you a short time to get up to speed on the aircraft + you will be able to start earning $$$$ without having to keep current at $400 + /hour.

Just a thought.

VD

[Cloud Cutter]

I understand I am not walking out of the class into a multi job with 250+ hours.

Why not? Plenty of others do. You will probibly need to do a C-Cat though. Prob best to disregard anything the aussies are saying here (no offense guys), It seems to be a lot easier to find work in NZ at the moment. Many people going to operators like Mountain Air or Air Discovery have around 300 hours and a MEIR.

[flaming_moe]

Im not sure about plenty of people walking into multi jobs cloud cutter, and you'd be shown the door if you rocked up to Mountain Air with 300 TT.

...and if your finding it easier to find twin jobs at the moment please PM me, id be keen to hear who you've been talking to :\

[Cloud Cutter]

and you'd be shown the door if you rocked up to Mountain Air with 300 TT.

Is that right, not quite sure how some of the current employees got there then :uhoh: Now if you rocked up with more than 500 hours you may well be shown the door.

It's never going to be easy, but comparatively speaking these are very good times. It just takes perseverance, and the right attitude. Of course you will need to be willing to move, and probably give up most of your life for the short term.

My advice would be to look for work (even short term contract over summer) with a company who offers single VFR work, but also does Multi IFR. They may give no guarantee that you will move beyond the singles, but if you exhibit the right attitude and work ethic, it will invariably happen, sometimes quite quickly.

Keep in mind that you will need total time (1000+ hours) for the next step, so there's not a lot to be gained by going straight into a multi job.

[Bongo Bus Driver]

Cloud Clutter speaks the truth.

There are many options to progress in NZ. Companies employ pilots with various experience but with one common denominator.

They all have the right ATTITUDE

Hold on to your pingers until you get a sniff of chance. Then if you need to do some more training then you have the funds to do it quickly which shows a prospective employer how willing you are to work for them.

Take what ever you can find, work hard at at and your reputation will help you to find the next opportunity.

[Aerodynamisist]

Wingman have you considered something like tailwheel, aerobatics or a low-level endorsement or maybe just doing the initial twin so you can fly twins vfr. maybe even some float time ? There is more to the career building adventure than the well trodden path of cpl then instructing or mecir.

[flyingkiwi]

Having been a CFI/CP of a GBA sized outfit in NZ my 2 cents worth is to do lots of door knocking and ask what kind of work is availiable if i do my IR or C Cat with your company, if the answer is none move on. You should be able to get some right seat or part time work out of it.

[turbolager]

How confident are you in your self promotion? Do you have a truly massive action C.V campaign well underway? The answer will vary for each individual. A few pointers the way I see it:

1: You're graduating into the hottest NZ job market for a long time. There are guys around getting 'lucky break' jobs that are shortcutting many years of drudgery in GA. You can too. Its a matter of self promotion and a matter of being qualified RIGHT NOW when someone needs a new pilot yesterday.

2: NZ is infinitely more flush with jobs than Australia right now. Keep that in mind when taking advice from Ozzy's, whose career progression is probably a bit more tedious.

3: If you do a Bunglerat and keep yourself unqualified for multi engine employment then dont cry too hard when your mate gets a twin job with 200 hours. It's your fault.

It's never too late to start but you should be well underway with your job market research and C.V promotion by now. Remember, its a big ole world out there, NZ and Australia make up a very very tiny little fraction of it, keep that in mind when you set your career goals - make sure you are up to date with whats happening in other countries, some of them offer a better deal.

And above all else, never fly for free :mad: