How To?...

[jamielatham]

Hello everyone;

I know you'll all probly say do a search, but i have and cannot find the answer im looking for.

It's a really simple question,

When you convert From FAA to JAA, e.g having all these in the FAA Format,

* Step 1 - Private Pilot Single Engine certification

* Step 2 – Basic Instrument, Commercial Maneuvers, Solo Proficiency, Cross Country and Night Flight Training

* Step 3 – Additional Aircraft Rating (Multi-Engine Land) Course

* Step 4- Instrument Rating course (using the multi-engine aircraft)

* Step 5 - Commercial / Multi-Engine Certification



So How will i Convert This to JAA and Hold a JAA Frozen ATPL?

Thanks Everso Much in Advanced...

Jamie

[GusHoneybun]

Assuming you have all the above qualifications under FAA, the following is required for conversion

1) A Class One Medical. Only done at Gatwick
2) Sit and pass all 14 ground school exams.
3) Pass CPL training as required, then pass a 170a and subsequent CPL skill test.
4) Pass a multi engine skills test
5) A minimum of 15 hours of IR training, then the 170a and pass the IR skills test.
6) Take shiny pieces of paper to the CAA, pay a wad of money and then wait 4 weeks for your licence.
7) Enrol on an MCC course.

This is what is required as a minimum, I would stongly suggest you have a contingency as only sky-gods convert in minimum time.

[Martin1234]

What is a "170a"?

[Charlie Zulu]

I believe it is a test that is conducted "in house" at your school. Completion of this will enable your instructor to sign the 170a form ready for the actual CPL skills test.

I might be wrong though as I haven't done the CPL course / skills test yet.

[mad_jock]

You don't actually have to do a 170a flight test for your CPL test. Its a rip off done by most schools who will proberly charge you a test fee for the unrequired flight test.

The 170a for a CPL is a paper work exercise which the person who is allowed by the caa to sign them checks all the records and makes sure that everything is right for you going to test.

The 170a for IR is a flight test as well as the paper work check.

[englishal]

What is a "170a"?
Its a very expensive bit of paper which is an excuse for FTOs in the UK to print some extra cash.

In FAA land this is called an "Endorsement". When the instructor reckons you're at the required standard, he signs your logbook to say so. In JAA land, you are required to do a mock test, called a 170A, at a cost of probably £500 for the pleasure. Then more than half JAA IR applicants fail first time anyway, so its all a big con.

[Send Clowns]

A 170 is a check flight to see that you are ready to take the test - I believe mandatory for the IR, most schools insist for the CPL too. Conducted by a senior instructor who is not you primary instructor, it is a more accurate judgement of how you will do under the pressure of a check flight with a differnet person in the right seat, like the conditions in your test.

I have never heard of a school charging a flight test fee for this (I can't see how they can, as it is not a test), and it can be part of the required training for that course. Mine certainly was for the IR - only wasn't for he CPL as I had been ill so required more hours for currency. I had also done plenty of "test profiles", and this was simply another one. Therefore it does not increase the cost to you unless you fail it. However this would suggest it has probably avoided you failing a skills test (a lot more exspensive) so you should then be grateful.

[mad_jock]

Sends you know what some schools are like. I have heard of a CPL 2.5hour test profile charged at dual rate in a twin and a test fee of 250 quid plus landing fees. Which isn't a kick in the bum off 1k.

To be able to sign a 170a you need to have done a course for both. The 170a CPL course dosn't envolve any flying and the IR does.

And although myself the 170a for the IR was included in the course its a bit of a gray area. The documentation says that you have to have done xxhours of instruction. As such the 170a is a test not instruction so should be done in addition to the minimum course requirements. But in saying that I have never heard of anyone getting any grief when they have applied for the lic and rating who has done it as part of the course.

Presonally I didn't have to pay any of these test fee's as it was all part of the course price at LFS.

Another question wannabies should ask before choosing your school I think. It has the potential to add nearly 2k to your budget.

MJ