737-200 banked 87 deg?

[ALIBABBA]

Can somebody confirm or deny a rumour I heard of an incident in Italy recently where a 737-200 banked 87 deg.
I didn't think this was possible.

Was this fatigue or how did it happen (if it did). Didn't see it in the papers.

[Dougle Mcguire]

Yes the above is true. Its not the bank angle that caused concern, it was the 300ish feet above ground that raised all those eyebrows.

[captplaystation]

Doesn't make much difference but believe it was an 800,no doubt the full details will become public (like the Skavsta incident) once the IAA have investigated/unless the pilots were fatigued,in which case it will be OK for RYR to investigate and deal with it. . . Ha, Ha! Capt in Skavsta (if we recall) claims part of the reason he cocked-up was fatigue/stress,if you try and tell them you are fatigued,you get demoted. . . shome mishtake shurely.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Oh dear Cptplayboy - the thread seems to have been hijacked by the 707 aerobatic display team..... Obviously an 800 at 300' performing a derry break doesn't excite 'em :rolleyes:

[bentover]

737-800 500ft agl circle to land bad weather. Report out soon.

[Getoutofmygalley]

Is this by any chance the much referenced too, but never details quoted Rome Ciampino incident? :ooh:

[Micky]

Well the thought of a 737 brake of with 87 deg is exciting... but that won't be sop now will it:ooh: :confused: :ooh:

[captplaystation]

Getoutofmygalley, yes.

[Bokkenrijder]

737-800 500ft agl circle to land bad weather. 87 degrees bank. Report out soon. Heard a rumour about this from a mate: indeed probably Ryanair in CIA! :\

[Big Buddha]

I have heard this as true as well.

I just wondered why it had not hit the papers yet?

Are all the pax locked up in a hanger down in CIA?

[ivor tug]

Heard that it started with an approach into CIA down to minimums-go around and divert to FCO. Down to mins again, GA then a diversion to BDS circle to land and landed with 150 Kgs a side. Are the two rumours linked?

[captplaystation]

150kg a side sounds (I really hope) like an exagerration(ie in the negative sense), believe the aerobatics took place over the sea into FCO; there are "rumours", & I stress "rumours", of screaming pax putting life-jackets on,but I doubt it,since when did any Italian pax listen to the safety brief!With or without any of the hysterical stuff, scary enough for all concerned I'm sure.The thing that surprises me is how this didn't hit the Italian press,they would love this sort of thing;Don't suppose that nice Mr Berlusconi recently received a few share options?

[unwiseowl]

The inevitable consequence of such a high bank angle, held for more than a few few seconds, will be a very high rate of descent. The descent could subsequently be stopped only after rolling the wings level.

Minimum landing fuel for a 737 would typically be at least 2000kg, or 1000kg following a diversion.

[Telstar]

Captplay, I doubt the story of the Life Jackets is true. On the 800s the Life Jackets are stored in the Flap that drops down with the Oxygen masks. They are up there to stop the repeat of the thousands of lifejackets that were/are stolen off the other aircraft that had them under the seats every year.

[captplaystation]

Not entirely true,only the very recent deliveries are in this configuration;the largest part of the fleet are in the " theivin bar-stewards"prefered, under the seat config.

[Telstar]

Capt, Oh right, my understanding was that it had been rolled out over the whole fleet, I obviously don't unnertstand too good then! :ok:

[iceman51]

Good evening from the Bel Paese (Italy)

Very interesting story, however I sincerely believe that it did not happen. Actually, and I am pretty involved with Italian aeronautical matters, I have heard nothing about it at all. It could be that I am wrong, but I doubt: it would have been a massive cover-up operation, impossible with 180 pax on board.

Furthermore, as you may guess, ENAC (the Italian CAA), all the medias (TVs, daily press, etc.) and AZ are - say - very close "friends", and if it really happend it would have hit the headlines for days if not weeks. ENAC would have also grounded FR in Italy immediately and forever, possibly!

Remember also that in these days the nearly bankrupt (or simply bankrupt ?) flag carrier is keeping a very close eye on anything that could help its survival. This would have been a "golden", actually a "platinum" opportunity: ...low cost airlines are unsafe, they cut on maintenance costs, they cut corners, LCC pilots are under pressure to land/take off always, bla, bla, bla ...

And do not forget the behaviour of the average Italian pax: they would have called nationl TVs, local TVs, all kind of medias, friends, relatives, MPs and possibly the Pope with their mobiles 1 sec after landing ...

No, I do not believe that any FR 73s did an 87 deg bank here under. Possibly what happened it was a GA with a strong pull up and bank, but by far not an 87 deg. It could also have been that the Capt was smart enough to inform over the PA during the approach that due to fog a GA was a strong possibility, and no one on board paid attention to it. GAs happen in northern Italy regularly, and I do remember Capts saying "... we are now on final approach (even if they were still far away on the glide path) your destination airport where visibility right now is just above our minima ...possibly we will be forced to abort our landing and try another approach/divert to our alternate airport ...if this will happen the aircraft will initially climb strongly ...this is perfectly normal ... I do also remember Capts doing a very good mktg job saying that they (their airline)would love to land, but the destination airport ILS (I recall TRN, MXP, LIN, VCE, BLQ in the not too distant past) was not fully operational/not certified/out of service/not Cat. 3A or B. Airline xyz apologizes, but the blame had to be put on the airport authority. Thank you for your understanding and flying airline xyz.
:ok:

[captplaystation]

I wouldn't expect ENAC to get involved,they have the same level of interest in regulating as the IAA ie none.(having worked for Blue Paranoia I am not guessing believe me) but I agree yes,it is incredible the pax didn't go screaming to the media along with the Alitalia lawyers to Silvio.I can only assume it was an AWFUL LOT of share options;no couldn't be, Mr B is an honest guy. . .isn't he?

[chiglet]

Quote
"but I doubt it,since when did any Italian pax listen to the safety brief!"
Whilst not defending any [one] airline, I have flown on many "EU" Carriers who do not give any"safety brief" :confused:
watp,iktch

[captplaystation]

With the diversity of nationalities/accents in RYR you may not understand it,but you will receive it;if you don't speak English that is what the pretty stickers on the seat in front of you are for,all legal and above board(in this case at least)

[bentover]

misunderstanding ,aircraft was 80 degrees off runway centreline due bad weather

[iceman51]

captplaystation:
I wouldn't expect ENAC to get involved,they have the same level of interest in regulating as the IAA ie none you have worked for Blue Banana, so you had the chance to understand quite a bit of the Italian civil aviation, but in this case you are too a certain extent wrong.

If you are right saying that the level of interest of ENAC is nil, you are wrong in saying that ENAC would have not been involved. Having left the Bel Paese, it might be that you have forgot that ENAC is still actually and to a great extent spelled AZ or Alitalia if you prefer, and that also Blue Banana has "very good" or say "preeferential" relationship with them. So, they would have not missed the opportunity at all! :E

:ok:

[captplaystation]

Methinks you are right,and any opportunity to "help" AZ would surely not be missed.Oh well,if it did happen ,and they didn't know about it, they certainly will now! duh. . .

[threemiles]

How would the exact value of ***87 *** degrees had become known?
For sure not from observation in the passenger cabin.
Reading out the FDR is probably the only way.
Or a report by someone in the cockpit being cool, observing and writing down the exact number.

If you ask me - hoax

[the grim repa]

fr 800s fitted with operational flight data monitoring system.

[Flyingsand]

I'd pay more attention to what bentover said :suspect:

[ark]

I CAN ASSURE EVERYBODY ON THIS THREAD FROM VERY RELIABLE SOURCES THAT THE 87 DEGREE BANK ANGLE DID NOT HAPPEN TO A RYANAIR ACFT.
(GREAT RUMOUR WHILE IT LASTED!!!!!!!!!):ok:

[captplaystation]

I'd pay more attention to my "bank angle BANK ANGLE" although I'm more usually concerned by my bank-balance;From where& how I first heard of this I think there will turn out to be something a lot more scary than attempted approach 80° off-set, although that in itself would be more than scary enough ta very much if the wx wasn't so hot.

[catchup]

THAT THE 87 DEGREE BANK ANGLE DID NOT HAPPEN TO A RYANAIR ACFT.

To whom else?

[Empty Cruise]

Captplaystation,

Is the "BANKANGLE" EGPWS mode triggered no matter what RadAlt you are at? S'far as my memory serves me (i.e. no FCOM at hand), you need to be below a certain RadAlt for it to trigger...

Brgds,
Empty

[renard]

On our a/c - not a 737, "Bank Angle" shouts at any Rad Alt greater than 30 feet. At 30' the trigger is 10deg AoB going upto 40deg AOB at >150'

[captplaystation]

No manual to hand (yes I know ,I know, its avail if I click on to crew-doc) but last time I heard it was in turbulence at around FL100 ,and they sure don't inhibit it at the alts we are talking about here,if this story is true maybe it saved the day.

[FlapsOne]

ark

Why should we believe your reliable sources over and above other reliable sources?

You appear to hold the minority view here.

[Farrell]

ark has a special interest in this thread though, don't you?

[Wing Commander Fowler]

oooooh Farrell - do tell! :eek:

[EGLD]

I was in the jumpseat on this flight and snapped the following shot....

http://tinyurl.com/d8ol7

[Baron rouge]

You seem to all forget that if this happened , the A/C was in the clouds so no pax would have noticed the angle of bank, just as the crew who probably did not do that on purpose, so was a bit slow to recognise the bank departure despite all the alarms

[beernice]

Aircraft got to 38 degrees in very heavy turbulance. Report out soon.Lot of other factors involved too.

[Few Cloudy]

Well let's see - 87deg is a pretty exact figure - close to 90 deg at the last count.

Yet someone had the time to note it. Who?

Was it the flight AIDS recorder? If so, who let the confidential information out?

Sounds all pretty fishy to me. (not a cue for ditching jokes...)

[ExSimGuy]

Reminds me of the cabin announcement "in the unlikely event of landing on water . . ."

Very unlikely - you don't land on water, you crash on it Hmmm

[PaperTiger]

ditching jokes...
Reminds me of the cabin announcement "in the unlikely event of landing on water . . ."... your seat cushion will act as a flotation device".

No. Your seat cushion will act as a suppository.

(Not original, but I forget the comedian's name. Seinfeld ?).

[kms901]

Other Ditching/Safety Jokes- From a Ryanair flight, which worked very well because everyone actually listened.

"It is an offence to smoke in the Lavatories, if you do we will make you sit outside, where today's inflight movie is Gone with the Wind"

" Your lifejacket is also equipped with a flashing light, which will useful if we crash into a floating disco"

[readywhenreaching]

It happened this summer in FRA approach on a -300 model ! (poss. Lufthansa, but unsure)

for anyone whos familiar with german:

http://www.bfu-web.de/Bulletin/Bulletin0509.pdf

Happened on Sep.30. a/c encoutered wake vortices of preceeding 747 on parallel rwy approach.
Acc. to FDR readout, bank angles from 30 ° right to 80 ° (!) left.
Sounds similar to Pittsburg in ´94...

Unfortunately the german BFU never gave any clues of the airline of ID of the aircraft.