PDA

View Full Version : A380 - combined threads


Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5

hobie
4th Apr 2005, 17:58
A delay I'm afraid :(

Reuters has this ......

April 4, 2005
The maiden flight of Airbus new aircraft, the A380, will be delayed, German newspaper Handelsblatt reported on Monday.

The paper quoted a company spokeswoman saying that pilots would test the plane this week.

EADS's co-head Rainer Hertrich said in March the maiden flight was originally scheduled for the start of April.

After the system and mechanical tests, acceleration and braking tests on the runway would be held prior to the first flight, Handelsblatt said, adding that experts felt it would take at least two more weeks for these tests to be done.

The paper said the spokeswoman did not give a fresh launch date for the aircraft. It quoted her saying that it was immaterial whether the aircraft had its first flight on April 10, 15 or 23 given it was to be sold the next 35 years.

(Reuters)

RaTa
4th Apr 2005, 23:10
When you think about it the lady is right, what does a few extra days or even weeks matter if the aircraft is going to be around for years?

Wish the same could apply to marriage ! ;)

reverserunlocked
5th Apr 2005, 02:20
*Off topic*

I'm no Boeing fan really (give me a VC10 anyday) but that A380 really is one ugly son-of-a-b. Our airports are going to be clogged up with 'em.

What was that old adage of if it looks right etc? The Phantom might have looked like wings were on upside down but at least it looked kind of menacing. The A380 just looks like it's a salad dodger. Kind of an aerial version of Johnny Vegas.


Carry on....

QAR ASR
5th Apr 2005, 05:21
Reverserunlocked, I have long maintained that the "If it doesn't look right it shouldn't be flying", should be applied to cabin crew recruitment. Especially, when it comes to the salad dodging variety.

Wiley
5th Apr 2005, 06:33
Please, Airbus fans, don't bite my head off for asking the following, but has anyone else heard RUMOURS (note the name of this website) that the 380 failed some major test in the last fortnight, putting the whole program on its proverbial back foot? The following quote, unconfirmed, comes from the email a friend passed me a day or two ago.The operating economies have now gone out the window and the beefing of the wing will now add considerable extra weight to the aircraft.

eal401
5th Apr 2005, 07:30
380 failed some major test in the last fortnight
Was it posted by "IhateAirbus" or some equally impartial observer?
A380 really is one ugly son-of-a-b.
And the relevance to the first flight is.....? It looks just like any other commercial jet, just bigger. If you get picky over aircraft through looks, you need to get out more!

At the end of the day, it's a short delay. Only newsworthy because of the aircraft and the "ain'tBoeingnotGoing" brigade.

BEagle
5th Apr 2005, 07:49
Well, no-one seemed concerned when I was at Toolooze last week - they knew that the first flight would be delayed slightly, but there were no show-stopping snags that they knew of.

And yes, it's hardly the prettiest aeroplane there is, I agree. It's very clever - but it isn't Concorde. :{

Seloco
5th Apr 2005, 07:51
I wonder if others would agree that the A380's currently perceived "unloveliness" is actually because it is TOO SHORT?!

Like many of its famous forebears, it is starting its life just a smidgeon stumpy in the fuselage department. Soon however the brightest of the best from GE, RR and P&W will come along bearing gifts of more powerful and frugal engines, whereupon the CAD in Toulouse will crank out not a short ugly duckling but the most beautifully extended swan. Think of what happened to DC4/6/7, Viscount, 737, 767, 777, VC10 over the years, where stubby little runts were transformed into epitomies of aerial grace by the addition of several well-placed frames. So come on some Photoshop whizz out there: show us what it could/should be like!

Incidentally, how many airliners actually got shorter than their prototype over time? I can think of 747>SP, L1011>500, but does A320>319>318 count?

Incidentally a mole in Toulouse told me this morning that the A380 formally passed to Airbus "essai en vol" yesterday for ground trials, designed to be a minimum of four days prior to earliest first flight. Sounds a smidgeon optimistic to me, I must say.......

ACE Dispatcher
5th Apr 2005, 11:30
Ok here are the requested "photoshopped" images of the stretched A380.

Original (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stevemorris9999/detail?.dir=47b3&.dnm=58ab.jpg&.src=ph)
Stretched (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stevemorris9999/detail?.dir=47b3&.dnm=2ff8.jpg&.src=ph)
Emirates A380-900 (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/stevemorris9999/detail?.dir=47b3&.dnm=a65e.jpg&.src=ph)

I think the stretched version will look far more appealing.

Seloco
5th Apr 2005, 11:37
Brilliant, well done AceDispatcher.

Voila la cygne!

Now, about those evacuation tests.......

ORAC
5th Apr 2005, 11:45
Pretty.. ;)

Evanelpus
5th Apr 2005, 12:18
I would imagine that Airbus will bust a gut to get the thing flying in time for the Paris Airshow, if only to display the aircraft statically.

Cejkovice
5th Apr 2005, 12:28
Seloco

The A330 originally came out with a -300 and then later with the shorter fuselage -200

matkat
5th Apr 2005, 14:13
I work for Airbus engineering and do not know of any show stopping snag and in fact just after the roll-out there was a message on the internal web-site dispelling just these type of rumours!
MK

Rainboe
5th Apr 2005, 14:34
That is one fine looking aeroplane! Where does the 'ugly' rumour come from? Learn to love it Baby- you will fly for many hours on this beast- it's gonna be just great!

ozplane
5th Apr 2005, 15:15
Seloco, didn't the 707 get shortened into the 720 and another sub-series (707-138?) for Qantas? One of the latter is being checked at Southend to see if it is restorable for Qantas

BEagle
5th Apr 2005, 15:21
Well, I think that the first flight of the A380 Megabus is going to be quite something! Best wishes to all involved and hope that it goes smoothly.

And a chum of mine who flies the A340-600 for Virgin Atlantic is probably going to be one of the first A380 pilots for the UK's flag carrier, the lucky so-and-so!

rotornut
5th Apr 2005, 15:29
If you ask me the 747 is no beauty with that forward bulge. However, that doesn't mean it isn't a great airplane. As for the 380, I think it looks just fine.

Seloco
5th Apr 2005, 16:13
Tricky one that, Ozplane! I guess it depends on whether you count the 367-80 as the B707 prototype - in which case at 39m length it was still shorter than the 41.5m 707-138 - or the first 707-120 as the prototype, in which case you are right, as it was, at 44m length, indeed longer than the -138.

and Cejkovice:

I think you have a point there concerning the A330! Although I cannot recall now whether the A340-300 flew before or after the -200 - what was prototyping what in this case?

I really must look out that anorak somewhere........

FunkyMunky
5th Apr 2005, 18:54
Even the short stumpy one looks quite appealing to me :ok:






Am I odd for thinking that?

aviate1138
5th Apr 2005, 19:12
MK said in part........

"in fact just after the roll-out there was a message on the internal web-site dispelling just these type of rumours!"

You forget the likes of 747FOCAL who continues to post on any possibility of the A380 being a disaster. I think it will look fine when the Graphics types have added the various company logos. Boeing prototypes look awful in their Boeing paint jobs IMHO and only Concorde ever really looked the Dogs Gonads and even its prototype painting was cr*p, AFAIAC. :)
The A380 looks fine to me and I am sure Airbus have it under control.

Aviate 1138

reverserunlocked
5th Apr 2005, 20:17
Oops look what I've started. I quite agree that the stretch looks much more in proportion!

seacue
6th Apr 2005, 02:39
You mean to say you don't like the looks of this version (http://users.erols.com/rcarpen/B7E7.jpg) of the A380? Fits any gate that will accept the first version. :O

reverserunlocked
6th Apr 2005, 08:29
Mmm, isn't that just a looker.. reminds me of my ex-wife :{

frangatang
6th Apr 2005, 08:53
Hear hear QAR ASR,the truest words written on this site!

DingerX
6th Apr 2005, 09:44
small delay no problem if the service life is going to be 35 years?
Hmm, I'll have to remember that if I ever have to announce a construction project delay.

"We're not worried about this 1.5 year setback in construction, since the building should last 400 years"
vita brevis, etc.


Paris Airshow is always an interesting intersection of commercial demands and engineering realities; here's hoping only guts get busted.

missy
6th Apr 2005, 10:46
For those pilots moving to the A380 from other aircraft types within your companies fleet, will there is any increase in renumeration?

eal401
6th Apr 2005, 11:07
will there is any increase in renumeration?
Why should there be?

QAR ASR
6th Apr 2005, 11:58
Eal401, more pay due to greater productivity per pilot.

Even the miserly UK charter airlines recognise that by paying widebody pay.

supercarb
6th Apr 2005, 16:49
A380 MSN001 has been handed over to flight test today to commence taxi trials.

Too Loose France
6th Apr 2005, 22:32
Heard that during fast taxi and breaking trials in Toulouse, that part of fuselarge "crumpled". Can anyone add anything or even better, refute this rumour.

Listening to the "rumour file" on radio 3AW in Melbourne this morning, this very rumour was on. Is it a case of where there is smoke!

Also the presenter offered the QF Captain from the dust up in NRT as test pilot for the Airbus, if the rumour has any legs.

supercarb
6th Apr 2005, 23:54
TLF, very unlikely, seeing as the fast taxi and braking trials have not started yet.

MarkD
7th Apr 2005, 00:25
Too Loose France

I hope you called 3AW to call bullsh#t on their rumour... unless that handle of yours is merely a pointer to fanboy love of aircraft that are not Airbuses.

Animalclub
7th Apr 2005, 12:48
Gettit right missy...remuneration!!

taffman
7th Apr 2005, 18:08
Is it true the A380 will not make Paris airshow because of delayed first flight?

Taffman

taffman
7th Apr 2005, 18:46
It was on the BBC Wales Today news that the A380 was delayed and would not make Paris. Any one with more info?

supercarb
7th Apr 2005, 19:27
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/04/07/uairbus.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/04/07/ixportaltop.html

A spokeswoman for Toulouse-based Airbus said today: "The plane is now in the hands of the flight test crew and the flight is going to take place in the second-half of this month.

"The important thing is to make sure everything goes well and it's better to be over-cautious.

"The plane will definitely be on display at the Paris show but we have not yet decided whether it will fly at the show."

boofta
8th Apr 2005, 01:11
So the mighty thin skinned flying Renault will be flying later this
month, thats April is it?
But which year are we talking about!
I wonder if 50 KG cabin crew will deflect the floor boards as much
as their other products do.

Lower Hangar
8th Apr 2005, 08:37
My Hot Poop form TLS this morning says 18th/19th April....thats good enough for me:D :D :D :D :D

hobie
8th Apr 2005, 15:56
My Hot Poop form TLS this morning says 18th/19th April....thats good enough for me
and I bet you the whole World will be watching it on TV :ok:

The African Dude
8th Apr 2005, 16:57
If I were to get to Toulouse (for 1st flight), along with many others I'm sure, what would be possible vantage points?

:confused: :O

Konkordski
9th Apr 2005, 14:41
"The plane will definitely be on display at the Paris show but we have not yet decided whether it will fly at the show."



What's the alternative to flying it at the show? Taking it to bits and trucking it up the motorway? ;)

supercarb
10th Apr 2005, 10:26
Taxi tests under way yesterday

http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/actualites/04-2005,airbus-a380-premier-roulage-essais.php

http://membres.lycos.fr/airbus/A380%20premier%20roulage%209avril2005.htm

Konkordski,
It will fly to and from the Paris show, just may not take part in the flying display during the show.

Toulouse
11th Apr 2005, 10:38
Just got an email from one om my internal resource in Airbus in Toulouse, stating that first flight is programmed now for the second half of April and that the aircraft will be handed over to the test pilots during this week.

Must say I'm glad to see Airbus has had the sense not to succumb to pressures to get the first flight in the air "too" soon despite its earlier committments for doing so by end of March.

Habster
13th Apr 2005, 11:20
Anyone have anything new re when it'll be first in the air ???

And when it might be doing it's 'round the world peek and see ??

eal401
13th Apr 2005, 12:40
Have seen April 20th quoted, but this is by no means definite. It was a rumour of a rumour type thing!

At least it has been moving under its own power! :ok:

Oh look, moved to Spotter's Corner again. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Captain104
13th Apr 2005, 14:15
Hmmmmmm..............?

http://tech.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_6077.php/First_Take-off_Of_Airbus_A380_Due_in_8_Days

Regards

eal401
13th Apr 2005, 14:33
That was the source I had seen from elsewhere.

Konkordski
13th Apr 2005, 14:55
Anyone care to explain why my post, pointing out the reasons why the 20th April might not sit well with certain national Governments, was deleted?

eal401
13th Apr 2005, 15:04
Did you post it in R&N, where the A380 is not considered a serious topic of discussion?

(What IS wrong with 20th April anyway?)

BEagle
13th Apr 2005, 15:15
It is Hitler's Birthday.....

eal401
13th Apr 2005, 15:38
It is Hitler's Birthday.....
Right....

And this is a problem how? Or were others simply making it into an issue? (In which case deletion is fully understood!)

747FOCAL
13th Apr 2005, 15:54
Hmmmm. Nope I wont bait myself. Going to leave that one all alone.............:)

BOAC
13th Apr 2005, 20:12
For eal - post moved by Danny - obviously he felt this forum was more appropriate.

konkordski - not deleted by me - could have been Danny in the 'move? The post arrived here 'as is'.

RevMan2
14th Apr 2005, 09:34
I said it before (deleted by hand unknown) and I'll say it again - the fact that April 20 is Hitler's birthday is numbingly irrelevant to this thread.
Good-oh to whover removed the post.

loveJet
14th Apr 2005, 12:58
totally agree.

will weather have an impact on the day they choose for first flight? what will they do with all the press and photographers, surely they're going to want publicity out of this?

Jet

beaucaire
14th Apr 2005, 16:50
Actually french news-TV station LCI (daughter company of TF1 )mentioned today the first flight would be sheduled for April 22 if weather OK.

Toulouse
15th Apr 2005, 10:14
Just got my first glimps of F-WWOW moving along the runway at TLS Blagnac Airport under its won power and Wowwww!!! What a sight.

Already some 40 cars parked at the area I saw it from, so I can see people are ready for viewing first flight.

Also noticed that a stand of seats are being set up beside one of the runways, pbviously in preparation for the dignatories during the first flight, so it's obviously quite imminent.

Good luck Airbus

747FOCAL
15th Apr 2005, 15:33
Lets hope the pilots don't mistake those stands of seats for trees.......:E

Smoketoomuch
15th Apr 2005, 19:11
Anyone know what engines the 'first flyer' has?

moggiee
16th Apr 2005, 00:46
Big ones, I expect!

Toulouse
16th Apr 2005, 10:04
747FOCAL... You really can't help yourself, can you?? :ok:

MR8
16th Apr 2005, 10:21
I heard from a very reliable source in Toulouse that the aircraft will be powered by JET engines... can anyone confirm??? :E

fastjet2k
16th Apr 2005, 10:24
Negative MR8, they're actually attaching an enormous rotor to the top of it and they're going to make it get airborne vertically. They're clever people at airbus, and they figured that if they lose an engine there then it won't be able to continue to fly from LAX to LHR. As a result, they're also fitting 100 small propellers along the wing, just in case :)

seacue
16th Apr 2005, 11:20
Is it correct that all the A380 engines presently at Toulouse are Rolls Trent 900?

gwillie
16th Apr 2005, 14:55
Courtesy: Airliners.net post....

"Click on Region "Toulouse" evening news and at the very beginning of the broadcast....
It won't last - so hurry"


http://www.m6.fr/html/info/player/frame_soir.htm


a second thought........
People may also want to bookmark this French TV station link for possible coverage of the first flight

gwillie
16th Apr 2005, 15:03
Ground tests VIDEO -

I just posted this in a new thread...but, I guess it wouldn't hurt to put it here as well

Courtesy: Airliners.net post....

"Click on Region "Toulouse" evening news and at the very beginning of the broadcast....
It won't last - so hurry"


http://www.m6.fr/html/info/player/frame_soir.htm


a second thought........
People may also want to bookmark this French TV station link for possible coverage of the first flight

ETOPS773
16th Apr 2005, 16:31
Seacue,yes your correct the A380 being tested has the RR Trent 900 donkeys installed, picture here (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=818501&size=L&width=1280&height=994&sok=JURER%20%20%28cubgbtencure%20%3D%20%27Serapu%20Sebtf%20N veFyvqrf%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=2&prev_id=818502&next_id=818500)

Useless snippet of info:only the inboard engines have working reverse thrust mechanism installed due to potential of FOD damage on outboard engines.

Bealzebub
16th Apr 2005, 16:44
I think research of the archives will reveal the reason for the lack of outboard thrust reversers was part of the development project to cut down on weight, complexity and cost.

MarkD
16th Apr 2005, 18:42
doesn't work in Firefox, worked in Internet Explorer.

Lil' Pilot
16th Apr 2005, 19:46
It's short, but WOW what an aircraft :ooh: I would love to see this big giant in real life!

Earthmover
17th Apr 2005, 00:59
Thanks for that - excellent. Now, is it or is it not true that Airbus want the A380 to be auto-landed as standard and a manual landing as an abnormal? Please tell me that it's just an ugly rumour.

Charley B
17th Apr 2005, 07:57
Thanks for that ---it was lovely! Cant wait to see it fly!

WindSheer
17th Apr 2005, 09:20
Cant see it having to be autolanded at all times - that would mean every airfield it flies into would have to have cat111.

3Greens
17th Apr 2005, 09:29
Not quite correct Windshear...Aircraft that are capable of Autoland only need cat1. Perfectly acceptable to autoland on a CAVOK day without cat3 protection. Just have to watch out for LOC/GS deviations as aircraft may still be taxiing within the ILS sensitive area.

NigelOnDraft
17th Apr 2005, 10:24
3Gs...

Disagree slightly. National & airline rules might vary, but to Autoland at all, we need the airfield to have been surveyed and have eqpt essentially to CAT3 standard. The protections need not be in force, but the eqpt still working. In short, on the BA Airbus, we fly to many airfields / runways (maybe 50%?) where Autoland is not permitted at all...

For the A380 airfields unlikely a great problem, except that doing a "practice Autoland" is, IMHO, more demanding than either a manual land or an Autoland - you have to be ready to intervene at very short notice to "take over", which inevitably demands a high level of experience in manual landing...

The A380 will be distinctly unpopular if it demands the CAT3 protections in force.... Suspect this is just a rumour <G>

kuningan
17th Apr 2005, 11:26
The UK's finest are at it again - from today's Sunday Times:

http://tinyurl.com/boxef

AIRBUS’s A380 superjumbo programme will lose more than $8 billion (£4.2 billion) over its commercial life and never pay back the £2 billion-plus in state aid that helped launch it, according to a report from a panel of leading American academics and analysts

The report was funded by Boeing & assumes that the A380 will sell 496 aircraft....which I guess is Boeing's estimate.....

Snifferdog
17th Apr 2005, 11:47
...so if they sell 497 they're screwed! ..:E

puff m'call
17th Apr 2005, 12:47
Don't get all worked up boys it's just another piece of Airbus crap at the end of the day, over weight already by 20 tonnes and under performing.

What really makes me laugh is the fact the Emirates have ordered 45 of them. A muslim airline flying a pig!!!! :O

10 DME ARC
17th Apr 2005, 14:40
Sponsored by Boeing.....................;)

broadreach
17th Apr 2005, 15:03
Oxymoron? Hmm.

I can't help remembering how the 380 project was pooh-poohed on here as soon as it surfaced, and that much of the ridicule came - and continues to do so - from UK posters. Now she's begun taxiing tests the tide almost seems to be turning to patriotic support.

Personally I hope the A380 is a huge success, that the project does make a profit and that it creates a new paradigm in commercial aviation, bringing in more passengers and more jobs. However, I wouldn't forget that it's a colossal gamble, with a large part of the stake put up by taxpayers who had no choice in the matter. It had damn well better work.

If it doesn't, well, shades of Concorde.

nyt
17th Apr 2005, 16:06
Direct link:
http://www.m6.fr/content/video/info/asx/Toulouse_02_150405.asx
or mms://stream1.m6.fr.ipercast.net/m6.fr/6minutes/d/31/d050415190000SARAV3100002.wmv
Cut/Past and open it in media player if clicking doesn't work.

FunkyMunky
17th Apr 2005, 16:52
Thanks for the link nyt; great to see it moving courtesy of those 4 massive RRs :D

2R
17th Apr 2005, 18:09
Are they trying to imply that Boeing is not receiving any government monies and is a private venture without any corporate welfare ?
Any company that big only exists at the pleasure of the various governments and financial support is only a small part of a companies viability.

MarkD
17th Apr 2005, 18:17
How many airports the A380 is planned to operate to have Cat3 already? Surely virtually all of them? We're not talking about a regional jet here.

Sunfish
17th Apr 2005, 18:46
Errrrr.... Once companies get that big, they ARE the government

unwiseowl
17th Apr 2005, 22:12
No, we're not talking about a RJ. We are talking though, about every possible alternate, both destination and en route.

El lute
17th Apr 2005, 22:41
puff,
very informative post. You know that it is overweight by 20 tonnes? Who told you?
And you also know it's underperforming when it hasn't even flown yet?
Please spare us any further cr*p like this.

kooyheier
17th Apr 2005, 22:48
Completely agree with you El lute...
To many wannabee's here on this forum that comment on stuff they don't even have a slightest clue what they're talking about.
Sad but true.....

Earthmover
17th Apr 2005, 22:55
Whoops, got the can opener out again - yum, these worms look great!

Sorry guys and gals - I heard this ugly rumour from a chap whose airline has ordered the A380 and it's just the crew-room talk .. and it does say rumours and news!

El lute - perfect summation.

MarkD
17th Apr 2005, 22:56
unwise

surely the autoland stipulation is to discourage handflying where autoland is available? If 380 was to be banned from non-autoland airports I think the matter would have arisen well before now.

It is sadly unromantic that beancounters don't like handflying but it is up to training and sim time to maintain currency so the statistically safer option is retained for passenger operation.

EGCC4284
17th Apr 2005, 23:11
3Greens

Check your PM

I sent you a PM last week

Quarternion.
17th Apr 2005, 23:59
Been watching the network to see whether the rumour would emerge....

Looks like there's something in what puf m'call says....

Just caught a conversation with an engineer who say's the figure is closer to 30 tonnes and first flight is delayed until June.

Apparently, they've weighed it - but I can't believe it's that much overweight as it would be an absolute disaster and complete oversight for the project.

Anyone else got anything on this?

BahrainLad
18th Apr 2005, 02:09
Ah.

Yes, because if the first flight had been delayed until June....

....they would of course be hurtling up and down TLS' runways at ever higher speeds on a daily basis....for the next 6 weeks?

Doubt it.

Mr Toad
18th Apr 2005, 05:25
pff m'call

hear the one about the dog that bit the hand that fed it?

Konkordski
18th Apr 2005, 07:40
The UK's finest are at it again


Kuningen, this is nothing to do with the British press. They are doing their job - reporting the contents of a US report on the A380.

The fact that it's biased against Airbus is nothing to do with the Times. The journalist didn't write the study - it is an American-backed analysis as is clearly stated in the opening paragraph.

Beside, the Times went to Airbus for a response - that's called balanced reporting.

The report's authors are all identified in the article, and a bit of Googling will give you their contact details. If you don't like the Americans' conclusions, take it up with them and please stop shooting the messenger.

kuningan
18th Apr 2005, 08:02
Konkordski,

Perhaps Airbus were slow to react - but what would you have them do - respond to something they hadn't read? Even the Seattle press manage a more balanced perspective:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/220497_airbus18.html

The messenger isn't worth the bullet.

Maxflyer
18th Apr 2005, 08:38
What really makes me laugh is the fact the Emirates have ordered 45 of them. A muslim airline flying a pig!!!!

I'm not a commercial pilot or wannabee, however I'm sure that those who are and happen to be Muslim are really impressed with that comment.

As an aside I hope the A380 proves successful both in performance and commercial viability.

catchup
18th Apr 2005, 09:13
Heard from a taxi-driver of Toloose, A380 will not have a rudder. Instead it will have two FEYCS (Fully electronical Yaw Control System) which will receive Yaw data from the IRS and command the outermost spoilers and the FADECS for asymmetric thrust to counteract for Yaw.

Regards

dreamingA380
18th Apr 2005, 09:32
Hmmm saw a photo in flight, and it did look rudder-less.

(or perhaps the rudder was hard over to one side and therefor behind the main body of the fin?).

Never heard of FEYCS before... Can anyone shed any light on this?

Perhaps its time to change my name!

Koyo
18th Apr 2005, 09:36
Er, a search on the Airliner website still have pictures of it having a rudder. The only plane I know that don't have a rudder is the B2 and but I don't exactly know how that thing manages to yaw.

PPRuNeUser0162
18th Apr 2005, 09:40
Well I've got a big piccie on my desktop taken from about the 5 o'clock position showing an RTO test (with the two engine reverses open) and the beast looks as if it's got a rudder to me.

There are definate lines in the vertical tail at the location a rudder would hinge...

The picture is http://www.airliners.net/open.file/817619/L/

Seloco
18th Apr 2005, 09:40
My Toulouse mole says planned first flight for 0800Z this morning (18th) was postponed due to low cloud base.

Too Low Terrain
18th Apr 2005, 09:40
No rudder.....bull****.

Heres a pic
www.airliners.net/open.file/744760/M

dreamingA380
18th Apr 2005, 09:49
Thanks guys...

It did sound a bit fantastical. Perhaps I should have looked at airliners.net before taking the word of a parisian taxi driver!

As for my name ... it shall remain now i'm convinced it can land in a crosswind!

:-)

Jodiekeyz
18th Apr 2005, 09:56
Don't get all worked up boys it's just another piece of Airbus crap at the end of the day, over weight already by 20 tonnes and under performing.

Lol..is that you 747focal?

if not another boeing as*h*l* :=

ORAC
18th Apr 2005, 10:31
The rudder is built in Spain in Puerto Real and transported to Stade in Germany to be joined to the rest of the vertical tailplane. Built from CFRP, it comprises an upper and a lower rudder. The upper rudder is 12 metres long, more than half a metre wide and weighs 350 kg/ 771 lb. The lower rudder is around seven metres long, almost one metre wide and weighs more than 250 kg/551 lbs.

swh
18th Apr 2005, 11:13
dreamingA380,

Maybe a bus driver would be a better source ;)

Just kidding, it is B/S, the rudder is made in spain, and mated to the rest of the vertical stab in Germany.

:ok:

beaucaire
18th Apr 2005, 11:21
There was never -ever in aviation history more false rumours floating arround then currently ,associated with the first flights of A380.
Any project of this size obviously calls for problems and un-predicable last minute hick-ups.But I would love to see a fraction of these negative gossip associated with the 7E7 dreamliner project.
Not that I am against Boeing or particularly pro -Airbus. But as most people crowding aviation forums ,we are supposed to be aviation freaks and supportive of any major development in civil aviation.Some threads are so full of hate or non-aviation related B.S. that I wonder why people take time to participate in forums.
The A380 has probabely it's fair share of issues -shall it be weight,cost-overrun or infrastructure related issues with airports refusing to accomodate the plane - but it still is a massive job-creator not only for europeans but also for americans. 30-40% of any A380 value is manufactured in the USA !
I do look forward to see the A 380 and the Dreamliner take off successfully ....

spannerless
18th Apr 2005, 12:17
Good old Boeing!

A bit like the presedential ellections lets rubbish the competion!

I seem to remeber they said all these things about the Jumbo when it was first conceived!

how long has it been flying?

Mind you I beleive the guys have had a tough time landing the beast on the simulator!

:\

IFTB
18th Apr 2005, 12:38
Heard from a taxi-driver of Tolouse, A380 will not have a rudder

Now come on! a taxidriver? Does he think he knows because it is doing taxi tests? :rolleyes:
Or because he overheard a conversation in his taxi? (in French ofcourse) :rolleyes:

Smells a litle of a wind-up...............:rolleyes:

747FOCAL
18th Apr 2005, 12:43
Jodiekeyz, Nope was not me....... and for your info, I don't work for Boeing. :confused:

Beanbag
18th Apr 2005, 14:00
FEYCS - would that be pronounced "fakes"? That taxi ride wasn't on April 1st was it?

GJB
18th Apr 2005, 15:09
One must question why the report was not published in 2002 at the time it was completed.

supercarb
18th Apr 2005, 15:49
First flight has now been postponed until next week due to poor weather.

BRS_Dispatch
18th Apr 2005, 19:45
The only plane I know that don't have a rudder is the B2 and but I don't exactly know how that thing manages to yaw

Slightly off topic, but this image should explain how it yaw's. Look at the ailerons...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/60/Usaf.b2.spirit.750pix.jpg

Volume
19th Apr 2005, 05:51
weather in Toulouse is not looking to bad, no clouds, no fog at the time of posting.
(You can continuously check in this automatically updated picture)
http://www.dfd.dlr.de/ftp/put/wetterbilder/France/image1.jpg

mfaff
19th Apr 2005, 07:19
On the B2 the control surfaces at the wing tips are not just the ailerons, they are the split rudders whic work to increase the drag of that wing to yaw the plane...hence the deflection both above and below the wing..

They may also work as ailerons I'm not certain they do tho...

Rollingthunder
19th Apr 2005, 09:29
Aren't those flaperons on the B2?

Rainboe
19th Apr 2005, 16:28
Mind you I beleive the guys have had a tough time landing the beast on the simulator!

Faced with the above, and the blizzard of other garbage it is accused of, I can understand Airbus' reticence to comment and fight all this unsubstantiated rubbish! Better to rise above it all and let the aeroplane prove itself! It is more economical than anything else, and the B747, great though it is cannot be flogged on another 40 years. Hail the new Queen of the Air!

Mr @ Spotty M
19th Apr 2005, 17:02
Have read a report that Airbus are saying sometime next week.

Sirius Flying
19th Apr 2005, 18:42
Seloco,

you should absolutely not believe anything your TLS source says. Such a statement can only come from a severe lack of information.
NO FF THIS WEEK.

nuff said.

Konkordski
20th Apr 2005, 08:11
Perhaps Airbus were slow to react - but what would you have them do - respond to something they hadn't read? Even the Seattle press manage a more balanced perspective


Sorry Kuningen but I still think you're missing the point. You can't write a balanced perspective about a biased analysis. The Times wasn't trying to write a balanced article about the aircraft - in which case your complaint would be justified - it was writing a balanced article about the American report into the aircraft. There's a subtle difference.

It's not the Times' job to refute the report. It's Airbus' because they built the bloody thing. The paper simply has a duty to state clearly what the source of the information is - which it did - and let its readers decide whether they want to believe the stuff which the US has churned out or not. I think any suggestion that the readers are too dumb to work out that there might be a hint of sour grapes or biased assessment in an American report into the A380 is highly insulting.

If Alex Ferguson says that Arsenal is a crap team, do you really need it explaining to you that he might not be entirely independent? Do you really need an equal number of sentences from Arsene Thingy to make sure your poor readers aren't misled? Tripe.

As for Airbus needing time to read the report before commenting, that's just rubbish. Airbus is quite capable of reeling out a shedload of rent-a-quote, feel-good comments about the A380 at the drop of a hat. If they chose not to take a spoon-fed opportunity to redress the balance a bit, having been handed it by a Times reporter, more fool them.

panda-k-bear
20th Apr 2005, 11:33
Surely the people who Airbus really want to know about the aircraft already do know whether it is a good product or not - they've been briefing airlines, investors, banks et al for years about it. Why should they really care what the great unwashed think (alright, Times readers might wash sometimes)?

MarkD
20th Apr 2005, 14:01
Read all about it:

http://www.speednews.com/A380-CPA.pdf

Che Xindamail
20th Apr 2005, 15:02
How a Boeing report on Airbus can be considered a "bombshell" is a bit over the top.

Definitely an oxymoron, just like "US Intelligence" in the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq.

Time has come to review the credibility of the so called expert opinions coming out of the US I think, and not only with regards to Airbus, the market leader in civil aviation!

Besides, who cares what Boeing thinks about Airbus, or Airbus about Boeing, or who is market leader? The important thing is that we all have one or the other to fly and get to make MONEY.

BahrainLad
20th Apr 2005, 16:28
From the report:

Long-haul travelers also prefer nonstops to connecting flights. While the A380 is wellsuited
to handle significant volumes of passengers in “hub-to-hub” service, this type of
operation forces travelers to endure additional connections that may not be necessary.
For example, to travel between Indianapolis and Bremen, Germany, today typically
requires two connections, with routings such as IND-IAD-FRA-BRE, or IND-DTWAMS-
BRE. The use of smaller aircraft such as the 7E7 or the A330-200 (or the 767, for
that matter) to add an Indianapolis “spoke” from Lufthansa’s Frankfurt hub, would
reduce the IND-BRE trip to a single connection and clearly would be a more desirable
alternative for high-yield business travelers than a double connection.

Is some of the most laughable justification for the 7E7 I've seen. These academics seem to think the entire world has airport's the size of Texas. How are BA or LH going to justify adding a low-yield service from Bumfu*k, Indiana to their major, heavily slot congested hub?

I mean, really!

crazypilot
20th Apr 2005, 18:08
If you read through the report [ok it's 99 pages so maybe not], you will see there are quite a few crude estimations in place. Simply look at how they forecast how many A380 freighter versions will be sold over a 20-year period....by looking at the deliveries of 747s made, looking at how many of these were freighters (9.9%) and then applying this to the A380 ... yeah ok!

Interestingly, with the 747Adv in the near-term pipeline, this report also points that [if you read between what they are saying about the A380], the 747Adv will only sell around 300 aircraft....that's 12 aircraft produced PER year or one / month. Not too much really!

Cheers

CP

MikeKnight
21st Apr 2005, 04:27
That analysis looks rather shadowy to me.

Ignition Override
21st Apr 2005, 05:03
Wino- anything from your sources?

Toulouse
21st Apr 2005, 10:12
weather in Toulouse is not looking to bad, no clouds, no fog at the time of posting.

Toulouse was most definitely under those clouds on your image yesterday!!

I went by Toulouse airport yesterday morning at about 10:00 to collect somebody arriving on EI's service from Dublin. Extremely black clouds just north of the apron. As I watched EI land at about 09:50, a mix of hail and heavy rain was falling with quite a strong northerly wind.

The weather is f:mad: awful here recently. Springs seems to have got lost somewhere...


Sorry, just realised your weather map automatically updates (as you said yourself in your post!). Excellent... :ok:

This morning in Toulouse 22/04/05: Nearly overcast, fairly high cloud cover, no winds, temperature around 10°C at 09:00 (local time). Rain expected later.

Harrier46
21st Apr 2005, 10:16
Not sure how relevant the date is but next Thursday evening there is a staff do at Filton to celebrate the first flight.

pubsman
21st Apr 2005, 10:26
Not sure how "new" this news is or if it's been covered elsewhere, but it's the latest I've seen.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-04/21/content_2860013.htm

The SSK
21st Apr 2005, 11:15
I was sent a photo of it this morning with its nose way-y off the ground, but with the mainwheels still on the runway

mafibacon
21st Apr 2005, 11:39
Passed overhead here -Cazaubon, about 20 mins ago. Looked graceful!

Toulouse
21st Apr 2005, 12:00
Find it very hard to believe the 380 has already lifted off... Any proof of this statement? Thanks.

callsign Metman
21st Apr 2005, 12:07
Great News.

Any chance of posting the photo you've got Desk Jockey?

CM

Hot Charlie
21st Apr 2005, 12:14
I expect the nose up pic was the well known fake that's been around for a couple of days now...

ALLDAYDELI
21st Apr 2005, 12:22
Are you sure it was the A380, the Belugas have been flying today on a couple of missions. No record of the A380 getting airborne! not today.

emmathestar
21st Apr 2005, 12:30
And did it pass?! you know that hugeeeeeeee massive new airbusy thing!

lomapaseo
21st Apr 2005, 12:54
Video here



http://grenadeindoor.modelisme.com/A380/a380.wmv

HotDog
21st Apr 2005, 12:56
Definitely not to-day. Following three hour old article from China: Airbus test flight within 15 days

www.chinaview.cn 2005-04-21 16:38:18

BEIJING, April 21 -- The world's largest commercial airliner, the A380, will make its first test flight within the next 15 days.

Airbus vice-president Philippe Delmas, who is in China accompanying French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, told reporters that only the pilots would decide what day they want to fly.

The inaugural flight of the new super jumbo airliner developed by the European consortium has been postponed several times. Airbus had initially wanted the flight to take place at the end of March or early April.

Earlier this month, the European aircraft maker said that the flight would come in "the second half of April."

The twin-deck aircraft, capable of carrying between 555 and 800 people, was unveiled January 18 and is scheduled to go into service next year.

emmathestar
21st Apr 2005, 16:15
it disappeared! was about the new airbuss thing and its evac.

Avman
21st Apr 2005, 16:24
Well, if you can't spell Airbus it deserved to go! Perhaps it was moved to a more appropriate forum?

barit1
21st Apr 2005, 16:31
QAR SAR sez:
"If it doesn't look right it shouldn't be flying"

I believe this should be attributed to one Benny Howard, racer designer & pilot of the 1930's. (He walked off with ALL the big money in 1935 with his "Mister Mulligan".)

And IIRC the 737-200 might have preceded the -100, but not by much.

WindSheer
21st Apr 2005, 17:04
Mine went aswell.
I started one on when will the 380 fly.
Its now gone - I didn't realise it was a sensitive issue!!

spekesoftly
21st Apr 2005, 17:28
where did my post go?!!
Mine went aswell.

Click on your profiles, and then 'Search for all posts by this user', and you'll find where they went.

Vee One...Rotate
21st Apr 2005, 17:30
I think there's been quite a few threads asking "When will the A380...?" so I'd imagine the mods got a bit bored with the repeated questions and leaned the forums a bit!

V1R :ok:

catchup
21st Apr 2005, 17:31
It happened to me as well.

O.K. deleting a post, for what ever reaseon, so what?
Merging a post, for what ever reason, so what?

BUT, a little notice to the author would be NICE.

Regards

mafibacon
21st Apr 2005, 17:40
It looks as though what I saw was a Mirage then.

Although it was a very big 4 engined mirage! Also it was white and not too high.

Possible too many glasses of the red stuff before lunch.

If it was not the A380 and it was not a Beluga, as suggested, anyone any ideas what it was?.

Bokkenrijder
21st Apr 2005, 17:45
Maybe your posts went because there is already a topic running about the A380´s first flight...
When are some people gonna learn to LOOK before posting/asking? :rolleyes:

Here (http://pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=169720) you go! Eight pages so far! Enjoy! :)

catchup
21st Apr 2005, 17:52
@Bokkenrijder

NO!

Definetly not.

regards

wsherif1
22nd Apr 2005, 04:46
Seloco,

Your comment,

"I wonder if others would agree that the A380's currently perceived "unloveliness" is actually because it is TOO SHORT?!"

The shorter the fuselage the higher the resultant nose high attitude of the aircraft, in a pitchup from a strong vertical updraft.

e.g., The Northwest Airlines Flight 705, a Boeing 720B (8 feet shorter than a Boeing 707) was pitched up to a nose high attitude in a strong vertical updraft. The crew used forward pitch control with little effect on the nose attitude, due to the vertical relative wind. Full nose down stabilizer trim was then used in an attempt to lower the nose. the aircraft then exited the updraft into normal relative wind conditions and with the full nose down stabilizer trim setting, the aircraft pitched over into a vertical dive and came apart in the air.

This accident occurred February 12, 1963 over Miami, Florida. The Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB) determined that the probable cause of this accident was the unfavorable interaction of severe vertical air drafts and large longitudinal control dieplacements, resulting in a longitudinal upset from which a successful recovery was not made.

Beauty, or the lack thereof, is not a primary concern in aircraft design, but it may be a hint!

Sensible Garage
22nd Apr 2005, 07:04
mafibacon, the mighty Vulcan I suppose?

Toulouse
22nd Apr 2005, 07:04
Desk Jockey and Mafibacon,

I popped down to Toulouse Blagnac Airport yesterday to check out your claims. I'd say a couple of hundred people already there, police, and 4 fire-brigades... and I thought, wow, she has taken off. And I couldn't see here anywhere, while she'd been clearlyvisible the past few days. Anyway, apparently she was in one of the hangars, and there were rumours that first flight would be on Friday at 10 am (I imagine next Friday)... this was only a rumour amongst the spotters there... not official.

But, she definitely didn't take off yesterday.

IFTB
22nd Apr 2005, 07:54
I detect a common theme (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4468011.stm) here. :}

Miles Hi
22nd Apr 2005, 14:11
Hi guys,

I'm trying to attach that pic of the fake/genuine nose up of the A380. How can I attach on to this?

IFTB
22nd Apr 2005, 14:17
Right click.
Properties.
Copy (completely) the URL shown.
PPRuNe message.
Above the text window use 'IMG'
Paste URL in box shown.
OK
and Mike O'Leary is yer uncle.

Miles Hi
22nd Apr 2005, 14:20
What do I do if it's on my desktop? No URL there. Booooo!

VnV2178B
22nd Apr 2005, 15:26
The current best guess is Wednesday, today was doing high speed runs and aborts in preparation.

supercarb
22nd Apr 2005, 15:37
I'm trying to attach that pic of the fake/genuine nose up of the A380. How can I attach on to this?

Don't bother. We've all seen it already.

aerotransport.org
22nd Apr 2005, 16:24
R.T.O. today. Pictures at
http://www.aeroweb-fr.net/actualites/04-2005,airbus-a380-essais-rto.php

/A

FOZ
22nd Apr 2005, 20:10
E-mail I received this evening!



Dear XXXXXXXXXX,

The Airbus team is pleased to include you among the privileged visitors who are offered the possibility to watch the live broadcast of the A380 First flight on Airbus.com.

We would like to inform you that there is a strong possibility that the A380 will fly next week. We cannot give you an exact date and time as maiden flights are subject to many conditions that we cannot control such as weather conditions.

Therefore, from Monday 25 April, please consult our web site every morning (GMT+2) for more information.

Just before the day of the first flight, the site will display pages dedicated to the event, including a special A380 lounge reserved for watching the live broadcast of the first flight.
Find below your personal access information to enter the "A380 Lounge":
Login: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Password: xxxxxxxxxxx

Your login and password are personal. They are valid for this event only, and will not allow several simultaneous connections on the day of the event.

Please be aware that your company's firewall may prevent you from watching live broadcasts.

We look forward to sharing this aviation milestone with you.

The Airbus team.

guybrush
22nd Apr 2005, 22:34
I got exactly the same e-mail! Except my password was shorter :p

hobie
23rd Apr 2005, 20:34
latest from Reuters .....

"April 22, 2005
The first flight of the world's biggest airliner, the Airbus A380, is expected next week as final tests are run on the massive doubledecker with room for over 800 passengers.

Secrecy and a slight delay have fuelled rumours of fires, collapsed landing gear and plots to spirit away the plane to a deserted German air base as anticipation mounts among enthusiasts lining the fences at Airbus headquarters in Toulouse, southern France.

"We've heard them all. There's no truth in any of it," said an Airbus spokeswoman, who reiterated that plans called for flying the plane by the end of the month.

The most closely watched debut since the supersonic Concorde first roared down the runway in 1969, the A380 will fly straight into the history books as the first airliner bigger than the Boeing's 747 jumbo, which debuted four decades ago.

"It's a great milestone in the history of the project," said a spokeswoman for Virgin Atlantic, one of the airlines waiting to take delivery of the plane.

Virgin founder Richard Branson, who wants gyms and private double beds on his A380s, had the words "Mine's bigger than yours" written on the side of Virgin's first Airbus A340-600 in 2002 and is expected to have similar fun with the A380.

Airbus has playfully given the first plane the registration F-WWOW.

The 747 helped change the airline business and marked a step change in size, which Boeing celebrated in TV commercials which showed the Harlem Globetrotters tossing basketballs down the aisles.

Airbus has also been celebrating, throwing a gala unveiling in January attended by heads of state and more than 5,000 guests.

But busy chatrooms and the vigil at the factory reflect what fans of the plane really want, and that is to see it fly.

For test pilot Jacques Rosay it has been eight years of waiting as he prepares to set aside simulators for the real thing, taking the A380 through manoeuvres designed to check its four Rolls-Royce engines, avionics and other equipment.

"Simulators are one thing. I could fly you to the Moon on one and be back in time for dinner. Real planes are different," was the wry comment of one former pilot.

Rosay and Captain Claude Lelaie will be part of a crew of six who, in case of catastrophic failure, would likely blow off the cargo door and parachute to safety.

Some USD$12 billion has been spent by Airbus and its suppliers to ensure no such problem arises, and 11 passenger airlines have laid down money to buy more than 100 of the USD$285 million planes.

Flying the A380 is expected to be like any other Airbus, requiring less than two weeks of additional training.

The plane, with a maximum take-off weight of well over one million pounds, is bigger than three Concordes, yet is the product of an intense focus on saving weight as high fuel costs and falling fares squeeze airlines around the world.

"What the airline is looking at above all is the economic case," said an Airbus spokesman.

Rival Boeing agrees, though it has focused on a much smaller money-saver in the 787 due in 2008.

The Concorde had a flawless first flight but it took almost seven years before air travellers could book a ticket.

Airbus this time plans to wind up a gruelling set of flight tests in just over a year, allowing Singapore Airlines to begin service in 2006.

Airbus is expected to use a handful of A380s in tests that cover the globe, trying it out in baking heat and icy conditions in places such as northern Canada.

Engineers on board will be armed with tonnes of diagnostic equipment to examine their drawing board ideas work at speed.

The flight route is likely to extend from Toulouse over the Atlantic Ocean, though Airbus has not released details."

(Reuters)

AutoAbort
24th Apr 2005, 05:41
Sure, A380 looks a bit chubby at the moment but as you might realise already now, ofcourse there will be a stretch. After showing off the aircraft on all the prestigious routes the different airlines have they will put it in traffic where it is mostly needed. It will be a real people mover! You will see the first announcement of the first 1000 pax airplane sooner than we all think. It might be EK or it might be someone else, but for sure it is coming.

747FOCAL
24th Apr 2005, 07:32
Sorry guys. I couldn't resist.

Just do it (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172179)

:p

rotornut
25th Apr 2005, 10:44
UPDATE 2-Airbus sets first A380 flight for Wednesday
Mon Apr 25, 2005 05:19 AM ET

PARIS, April 25 (Reuters) - The world's biggest airliner, the Airbus A380, is set to make its maiden flight on Wednesday morning depending on the weather and the absence of last-minute problems, aircraft maker Airbus said on Monday.

The massive double-decker plane has room for more than 800 passengers and airlines have spoken of equipping it with cocktail bars and gymnasiums.

It is the most closely watched new airliner since the supersonic Concorde first flew in 1969.

The flight will mark the start of just over a year of testing before Singapore Airlines begins service.

Engineers are conducting final pre-flight tests on the debut aircraft at Airbus headquarters in Toulouse, France.

Eleven passenger airlines have already laid down money to buy more than 100 of the $285 million planes.

Daysleeper
25th Apr 2005, 12:15
Heck I'll be in TLS on Wed. Argh to sleep or to go watch and I havent brought my camera.:{

ALLDAYDELI
25th Apr 2005, 12:25
So what was that in a similar related thread last week saying rwy isnt long enough at TLS for this? was that a rumour as well?
Something to do with a major set back..

Taildragger67
25th Apr 2005, 12:52
AllDayDeli,

Bit of an oversight if they've only figured that out now!!

My understanding is that all the long-range deliveries will be out of TLS and all the shorter-range deliveries out of Hamburg, as TLS's rwy is longer. One would hope that, with all the long-range A340-500 & -600 deliveries going on, the strip is reasonably useful.

Given the investment made in putting the factory at TLS, I'd be rather surprised if the strip length wasn't checked!!

I also seem to recall some mention of ferrying off to Istres for at least part of the flight-test programme - maybe that's strip-length related??

Also, is the first flight being made by 001 or 002?

TD67

greek-freak
25th Apr 2005, 13:44
Rwy lengths at Toulouse are 3000 and 3500m, can't find the ones for Istres now........
at least at MTOW it might be a little bit short I guess...

mcdhu
25th Apr 2005, 13:49
.......12303ft.

Cheers,
mcdhu

kuningan
25th Apr 2005, 14:09
You can't write a balanced perspective about a biased analysis.

Konkordski, if this was true election coverage would be even duller than it is!

Of course the Times could have supplied some balance - by quoting published, available Airbus estimates on A380 sales.

A simple bit of homework, and a simple sentence 'Airbus however estimate they will sell XXX aircraft' would have done the job.

Simply phoning Airbus up & asking for a response is not providing 'balance' -its lazy, sloppy journalism.

ott
25th Apr 2005, 17:27
Will it be televised live?

ronnie3585
25th Apr 2005, 18:39
If you register on airbus.com you get to watch a live webcast of the first flight.

Massey1Bravo
26th Apr 2005, 01:40
From the BBC:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4481733.stm


Airbus' A380 passenger jet is set for its maiden flight on Wednesday.

:ok:

Bokkenrijder
26th Apr 2005, 08:10
Funny picture 747FOCAL! :ok: :)

aviate1138
26th Apr 2005, 13:47
Aviate1138 heard at around 05:30.... Tuesday 26th

Good old BBC!
On Radio Five Live this morning they managed a News Item about Air Canada upsetting Airbus by ordering 30+ "new mid sized airliners" instead of the Airbus A 370!!!! Whatever that is?

They really should be more professional than that IMHO.

Granted they altered the item later but two broadcasts were made with the incorrect data. I guess they must have got confused with all the 777 and 787's for Air Canada. :)

Aviate 1138

Evening Star
26th Apr 2005, 14:29
Air Canada in $6bn Boeing order (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4483747.stm)

and

Lockheed wins $1.1bn Turkey deal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4485709.stm)

Good for them. However, just got to love the pre-emptive timing of both announcements.:rolleyes:

Me cynical? Never!:} :E

Flightluuvr
26th Apr 2005, 19:14
article just released from the Associated Press at Marketwatch.com:

A380 Set for Maiden Flight Before 50,000
4/26/2005 2:48:00 PM


BLAGNAC, France, Apr 26, 2005 (AP Online via COMTEX) -- After 11 years of preparation and $13 billion in spending, the world's largest passenger plane, the Airbus A380, is scheduled to fly for the first time on Wednesday.

Weather permitting, Airbus test pilots will power the four engines on a test model of the 555-seat "superjumbo" to lift its 308-ton frame aloft. About 50,000 onlookers are expected for what some are calling the biggest aviation event since Concorde's first flight in 1969.

The first A380 flight is tentatively set to begin around midmorning and could last for much of the day as the plane circles the region, beaming back real-time measurements of 150,000 parameters to Airbus headquarters from its 20 metric tons (22 tons) of on-board test instruments.

Industry analysts are keeping a close watch on Airbus, which hopes to woo customers away from rival Boeing Co. with the A380 but has yet to prove that it can turn a profit on its superjumbo investment, a third of which came from came from European governments.

As Airbus and Boeing spar over what each calls unfair government subsidies for the other, the rival aircraft manufacturers have staked their success on competing visions of the future of commercial air travel.

The A380, with a catalogue price of $282 million, represents a huge bet that international airlines will need bigger aircraft to transport passengers between ever-busier hub airports. But some analysts say signs of a boom in the market for smaller wide-body planes, such as Boeing's long-range 787 "Dreamliner," show that Airbus was wrong to focus so much time and money on its superjumbo.

Just this week, Air Canada said it had firm orders for 32 new Boeing jets, including 14 787s, with a list value of about $6 billion, and Air India announced plans to order 50 Boeing jets worth $6.8 billion. Air India wants 27 of the 787s, which will carry up to 257 passengers and have a list price of $120 million, boosting total orders and commitments for the plane to 237. The 787, which was launched a year ago, is scheduled to enter service in 2008.

"If the A380 costs Airbus the mid-market then it's the biggest misinvestment in aerospace history since Concorde," said Richard Aboulafia of the U.S. consultancy Teal Group. "The way the market's changing makes this look more like a science fair project every day."

Airbus, a unit of European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., is also planning to bring its own mid-sized jetliner, the A350, into service in 2010 - two years after the Boeing 787, but the United States government is demanding that no European government launch aid be extended for the A350.

So far, Airbus has booked 154 orders for the A380, which it says will carry passengers 5 percent farther than Boeing's longest-range 747 jumbo at a per-passenger cost up to one-fifth below its rival's.

While plane enthusiasts have lined fences in recent days at the airport in the Toulouse suburb of Blagnac, where Airbus is headquartered, Airbus has warned that the first flight of the A380 - already about a month behind schedule - could be further delayed by any unforeseen weather conditions.

A strong southerly wind from the Mediterranean would mean automatic postponement, since it would require a takeoff over the town - considered too risky for a test flight.

Aviation experts say risks remain very slim on the maiden test flight since a plane's aerodynamic characteristics are already well known before it takes off, thanks to years of computer modeling and wind-tunnel tests.

Problems are more likely, but still very rare, later in the test-flight program, when the pilots deliberately take the plane to its limits. An Airbus A330 prototype crashed here in July 1994, killing chief test pilot Nick Warner and six others as they conducted a simulated engine failure exercise.

Airbus chief test pilot Jacques Rosay, flight captain Claude Lelaie and four fellow crew members will take no chances. They will wear parachutes during the first flight, in accordance with Airbus policy. A handrail leads from the cockpit to an escape door that can be jettisoned if the pilots lose control of the plane.

The test-flight program is likely to finish soon before the A380 enters service for Singapore Airlines in mid-2006, Airbus said - about three months behind the previous schedule.

Part of the delay is down to the superjumbo's struggle with a weight problem that consumed months of engineering time and most of the program's $1.88 billion in cost overruns. Competitive pressure on airlines to offer plusher business-class seating tightened the squeeze - compounded by the A380's sheer scale.

Copyright 2005 Associated Press, All rights reserved

Gerard123
26th Apr 2005, 21:15
Does anybody have a flight time for the A380 first flight? I don't want to sleep in and miss it !!! Obviously a zulu time would be useful I'm too lazy to work out the time difference :O

hanx
26th Apr 2005, 21:38
I just read in airliners.net that the flight is sceduled or better expected for 10:30 GMT +2

Irish Steve
26th Apr 2005, 21:50
just had the following from a normally reliable source:-

Austrian Television has scheduled a live broadcast from the first takeoff ever of the new A380 on very short notice, starting the broadcast at 07:25 GMT on ORF1 on Wednesday, April 27th.

A live broadcast is announced on the Internet as well, however it appears that will be limited to invited guests only.

That seems to contradict what's been posted above, sorry, I can't confirm this, other than to say that my source is usually reliable on things like this

Austrian Simon
26th Apr 2005, 22:05
Hiya, Steve,

news travel fast!!! ;-)

Additional info: the broadcast is scheduled until 10:10 GMT

(in Central European Time: 09:25 til 12:10)

Simon

hanx
26th Apr 2005, 22:07
i think this is not contrary to the information on airliners.net, because when orf is starting the broadcast at 7:25 gmt (9:25 gmt +2, about thesame time german tv starts with their broadcast), a takeoff at about 10:30 would fit to the structure of those broadcasts (interviews, history of the A380 etc, and after one very long hour the show will begin)

maybe this link helps:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/2072333/

however, best wishes to the crew members!

:-)

BOH
26th Apr 2005, 22:29
Im desperatly trying to find another Website thats going to broadcast the A380 first flight other that Airbus as ive gota be in school?!?!Any ideas?!?!
BOH

G-MANN
26th Apr 2005, 23:52
According to the Network News, Tolouse will be closed to non authorised flights between 0730-1330z.

I would imagine it will be within this window and the airport will be closed the whole time the aircraft is airborne.

G-MANN

aerotransport.org
27th Apr 2005, 01:00
Details (from Pegase):

Tomorrow:

- crew on board at 08h45

- doors close 09h15

- taxi to end of runway 10h00

- 10h26 Corvette departure. When the Corvette does a low pass
perpendicular to the runway MSN1 will open its throttles to perform a

- takeoff at 10h30.

Flight time is 4h to 5h depending on success (could be much shorter if
problems). Hence following timings subject to change but

- 14h00 low pass over runway with go-around (if weather and aircraft
condition permits)

- 14h15 landing then taxi up and down the runway and taxiways on the
Airbus side of the airfield

- 14h45 press ceremony

- 16h15 aircraft towed back to the Abreuvoir for drinky-poos.



Alexandre
(who wasn't there 50 years ago - minus 1 month - to the day for the Caravelle maiden voyage)

boofta
27th Apr 2005, 04:07
1401
Wheels up landing due to body flexing from having too much
metal removed to save weight.
1405
Final admission of basically flawed design.
1410
Transport arrangements begin for hull removal to park beside
Spruse Goose.

Good luck to the test pilots, did you pack your own shutes?

beerdrinker
27th Apr 2005, 04:34
Notams for today for Toulose Blagnac:

LFBO AD LIMITED:
NON BASED VFR AND NON REGULAR AND NON SCHEDULED IFR:
PPR 2HR TO CCIT: PHONE. 33(0) 561 42 44 58
FOR THE 27TH OF APRIL, COMPLEMENTARY RESTRICTIONS FOR VFR AND IFR
FLIGHTS ON LFBO AD AND ASSOCIATED AIRSPACE WILL BE ANNOUNCED LATER
BY NOTAM.
VALID FROM 1555 25-APR-2005 TO 0730 27-APR-2005: (A1163/05)

LFBO AD LIMITED:
- FROM 0730 A 1530, HOURS CONFIRMED ON ATIS 118.025MHZ.
. RWY 14R/32L CLOSED TO ALL TRAFFIC EXCEPT FOR MANUFACTURER ACFT.
. VFR PROHIBITED WITHIN CTR 1 AND 2, FRANCAZAL S/CTR AND
TOULOUSE TMA 1 AND 2, EXCEPT FOR STATE ACFT, AIR DEFENSE ACFT,
SANITARY FLIGHTS IDENTIFIED BY AUTHORITIES, ACFT ESCORTED THE
FIRST FLIGHT.
- FROM 0730 A 1330, HOURS CONFIRMED ON ATIS 118.025MHZ
. IFR TRAINING, (INSTRUCTION OR TEST FLIGHT) COULD BE REFUSED
WITHIN TOULOUSE TMA.
. IFR FLIGHTS ONLY AUTHORIZED AT LFBO AND WITHIN TOULOUSE CTR AND
TMA:
- SCHEDULED REGULAR COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS
(LISTED BY CCIT PHONE. 33(0)561 42 44 58)
POSSIBLE HOLDING AT ARRIVAL
- ACFT LISTED BY AIRBUS PHONE 33(0)561 93 31 89
EMAIL PHILIPPE.DUPRE AT AIRBUS.COM
- STATE AND AIR DEFENSE ACFT
- SANITARY FLIGHTS IDENTIFIED BY COMPETENT AUTHORITIES
- FROM 1330 TO 1530: NON BASED VFR AND NON SCHEDULED NON REGULAR
IFR: PPR 02HR TO CCIT PHONE. 33(0) 561 42 44 58
FLIGHT LEVEL FROM SFC TO FL115
VALID FROM 0730 27-APR-2005 TO 1530 27-APR-2005: (A1162/05)

LTNman
27th Apr 2005, 05:32
I see that the French people see this aircraft as a French aircraft and not an aircraft that just happens to be bolted together in France. With the UK’s content at around 60% some people know better:ok:

Sunfish
27th Apr 2005, 06:09
Ummm, Airbus "nationality" seems to change with target markets in my limited experience. Sometimes it British, sometimes French and sometimes its the second cousin to a Mercedes Benz.

Momo
27th Apr 2005, 06:23
Yes, according to the long article just posted in "Spotters corner", the team will all wear parachutes, apparently standard practice.

Momo

Toulouse
27th Apr 2005, 06:42
Ahh come on LTNman! What else do you expect? Airbus is the heart of Toulouse and a source of pride (and livliehood) for so many people in the Toulouse region.
Remember, head office is here, the R&D (bureau d'étude) is here in TLS... so yes, the French, especially the Toulousains, have great pride in this company.
BTW... I'm not French!

Anyway, glorious morning here in Toulouse. Heavy traffic and thousands of viewers already around the airport.

For those of you abroad, for TV viewing, this is form an Airbus internal memo yesterday:

"TV COVERAGE
> You may wish to inform your friends and family that the event will be broadcast live on the following TV channels:
> - In France on France 3 Midi-Pyrénées, TLT, France 2, Canal+/ITV and possibly TF1
> - In Germany on ZDF and ARD (starting with Morgenmagazin)
> - In the UK on the BBC
> - In Spain on Telecinco, TVE informativos, Antena 3
> - And on CNN+, as well as CNN international
> In Toulouse, the take-off will also be broadcast on a big screen at
> the Place du Capitole"

Anywayn Best of luck to the crew today and all Airbus staff (no matter what nationality!) today.

I'm off shortly to see if I can still find a good spotting point...


:ok:

Arrowhead
27th Apr 2005, 06:47
To absoutely clarify

BBC World states lift off due at:

07:30 GMT
08:30 BST
09:30 FT

ie less than 1 hour.....

Mark Lewis
27th Apr 2005, 07:02
BBC expecting it at 0800 GMT/0900 BST at the moment.

However I just got a rather excited call from Toulouse telling me it was due imminently...

Reverand Lovejoy
27th Apr 2005, 07:14
Guys,

Here is a stream feed for the flight from the BBC website. It doesn't have anything on it yet obviously except a time screen. Just click on the "Watch the Flight" tab and wait till 0800GMT!!!!!

CLick here to watch A380 First FLight (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4488361.stm)

Good luck to all involved

The Reverand

sevenforeseven
27th Apr 2005, 07:14
Live on www.bbc.co.uk

Algy
27th Apr 2005, 07:22
Sitting here in the media centre at Toulouse. WX perfect, crew on-board aircraft. All set for about 08:00GMT.

Thousands of spectators on the airfield boundary, people camped overnight for a decent view, flight being screened in Toulouse city square. Great fun.

(And Boeing announced two major orders and the 787 revisions in the last 48hrs. Interesting PR strategy.)

lesarcs1
27th Apr 2005, 07:47
I am so excited I might s*** myself

beaucaire
27th Apr 2005, 07:48
http://www.airbus.com/A380/Seeing/live/video/live.asx

aaaaa
27th Apr 2005, 08:03
Sky channel 528 Euro News has just started coverage of the event. Should be fantastic

aa

Jordan D
27th Apr 2005, 08:08
Live Video stream is available NOW on the BBC News ( http://news.bbc.co.uk ) front page ....

so far, aircraft sitting on the ground not doing much.

Jordan

Airbus Girl
27th Apr 2005, 08:08
BBC have said its going to be live on BBC 24 at 0900 UTC, 1000 BST

TyroPicard
27th Apr 2005, 08:10
BBC Radio 4 News reports that "thousands of aviation enthusiasts are lining the runway at Toulouse" .. I wonder what the performance decrement is for that sort of contamination???

TP

Rollingthunder
27th Apr 2005, 08:12
BBC still not live. At least 22 minutes to anything. tick tick tick tick...oh no David Learmont being interviewed.....tick tick tick.

I remember being in a Boeing boardroom a few years ago for our B747-475 introduction and asking them when they were going to extend the upper deck all the way back.


Oh no, we can't do that.

Good luck to the test pilots.


Good luck to Boeing as well.


tick tick tick. Keep the damn ground vehicles the hell away.

P.S. From the helicopter shots as big as it is, it looks like it could be longer.

Hmm - taxiing.

oncemorealoft
27th Apr 2005, 08:21
0821 GMT

A380 just positioned at end of runway.

brockenspectre
27th Apr 2005, 08:27
Godspeed A380 - g'luck to flight crew :ok:

... my blasted company won't permit any video to puters so I am blind for this momentous event so please keep commentary coming!

Chocks Away
27th Apr 2005, 08:27
Yeh, just saw it line up on the RWY end, on 6pm CH 7 News (Australia).
It looks ominous:ooh: , I wonder how it will handle?
:D

PS ! Live feed on Cable TV : Fox News Channel

Have you heard this!
27th Apr 2005, 08:28
It's live on sky news, ITN, and BBC 24 NOW - QUICK!

pumuckl
27th Apr 2005, 08:29
I've just snuck out from work to the nearest internet cafe as my work won't allow videos either! Waiting with anticipation!!!! :ok:

BillHicksRules
27th Apr 2005, 08:29
Dear all,

I would just like to post a good luck message to the test crew.

Make us proud.

Cheers

BHR

oncemorealoft
27th Apr 2005, 08:31
0830GMT

Rolling .......
and airborne to lots of cheers!

swh
27th Apr 2005, 08:31
Well it airborne at LFBO/TLS now, congratulations

:ok:

Rollingthunder
27th Apr 2005, 08:31
Mr. Learmount , talking head, saying they've raised the gear. They haven't.

Airbus Girl
27th Apr 2005, 08:32
Its airborne! Currently flying with gear down.

Chocks Away
27th Apr 2005, 08:33
Yep, BBC is the go, with a running commentary.

Tolsti
27th Apr 2005, 08:34
A piece of aviation history in the making!!

1261
27th Apr 2005, 08:36
Anyone any idea of how many crew are onboard?

AVeight
27th Apr 2005, 08:36
What a beautiful sight! I can hear Boeing calling a panic meeting as we speak! :E

Capt.KAOS
27th Apr 2005, 08:36
Pretty quick in the air, I measured apx 28 secs?

A milestone in aviation history.

amanoffewwords
27th Apr 2005, 08:37
Well it was amazing - not often you see a new aircraft being flown for the first time :ok:

AVeight
27th Apr 2005, 08:38
1261

Reported that 6 crew members are on board.

Colonel W E Kurtz
27th Apr 2005, 08:38
Wow amazing! Where is 747FOCAL?:)

catchup
27th Apr 2005, 08:38
Airborne!

She made it.

Regards

Dutchie
27th Apr 2005, 08:38
747Focal time to change your name!;)

BRS_Dispatch
27th Apr 2005, 08:38
The way it left the runway with such ease suggests that it will be a "huge" success. It may not look right, but it flies right.

surely not
27th Apr 2005, 08:39
Terrific to watch, well done to all those involved in this project :ok:

lonkmu
27th Apr 2005, 08:39
6 crewmembers on board - in answer to the question above

touch&go
27th Apr 2005, 08:39
Shame the BBC had a big red strip across the bottom of the screen with the words 'Breaking News First Flight of the A380' which blocked half the screen and the bottom of the aircraft.

EC-YKA
27th Apr 2005, 08:40
Airborne: 10.31 local

Looks great out there, good luck guys.

Chocks Away
27th Apr 2005, 08:40
Just look at how many "Pruners" have registered tonight, coming out for the flight... haven't seen this many names for years!:ok:

VIKING9
27th Apr 2005, 08:41
Eat your heart out Boeing, you've got some catching up to do :p

fritzi
27th Apr 2005, 08:42
It was just wonderful to see it shoot up into the air! :D

LGWAlan
27th Apr 2005, 08:42
WOW - fantastic job guys. Great aircraft and great video feed.

slingsby
27th Apr 2005, 08:42
Superb coverage on Sky

Take off optional, landing mandatory. Can't wait to see it land.

747FOCAL
27th Apr 2005, 08:42
Ahh and here he is, up at 2 am to watch the fat lady....oops I mean big bird fly. :E

My congratulations.

The hardest part of the whole game is yet to come. ;)

Parapunter
27th Apr 2005, 08:43
Great Stuff, very elegant bird. Should'nt they get the wheels up?!!

luc
27th Apr 2005, 08:44
Have a good day 747Focal.

rct
27th Apr 2005, 08:44
Congratulations Airbus. What a phenomenal aircraft!
:ok:

yakker
27th Apr 2005, 08:44
Fan-bloody-tastic.

WELL DONE to ALL involved in this brilliant aircraft.

A-FLOOR
27th Apr 2005, 08:45
Terrific! Congratulations to everyone involved! :ok:

Watched it while playing the Crimson Tide sountrack at full volume :}

catchup
27th Apr 2005, 08:45
@747focal

Take some Coors or Michelob;) ;) ;)

Regards

Chocks Away
27th Apr 2005, 08:47
... see you all in 4 hours I believe, when it's time to land...:}

Ultralights
27th Apr 2005, 08:48
its not over yet, it still has to land!

brockenspectre
27th Apr 2005, 08:48
Congratulations to all involved!!! PS any pics yet anyone? I can't get to a TV or see video on my work puter! :ok:

Transition Layer
27th Apr 2005, 08:49
Go you good thing!!!!!!!

Have a look how many people are currently browsing the R&N forums!!!! Whoa!

TL

aaaaa
27th Apr 2005, 08:49
Apparently it may land after an hour and not the four hours as has been mentioned.

Absolutely fantastic

AA

Night Watch
27th Apr 2005, 08:49
Hope the rest of the test phase goes well, so my company will pull there finger out and order the beast!

Well done Airbus! :ok: