Radio failure at night in Australia

[Cha]

Question for anyone flying in Australia. If you only have a single VHF and that radio fails at night after tower hours in GAAP (during MBZ hours), then you can't activate PAL, I always select nearby international airport as an alternate but is it OK to fly into CTA without radio? Or do I have to get responsible person at MBZ?

[maxgrad]

May sound silly but mobile phones can be very handy bout now.
I would not choose to fly into CTA if you have other options.
RP at the MBZ to switch on lights etc etc. Last course of action is to continue as per your flight plan alternate and if it is to fly to CTA..well do so.

[Captain Sand Dune]

May sound silly but mobile phones can be very handy bout now.

Don't sound silly to me!! I have some of the local ATC numbers programmed into mine!:ok:

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Wonder if this is why you must carry an ALT with HN lights or someone responsible to ensure they are on for you if your destination only has PAL.

[maxgrad]

OZBUSDRIVER.. spot on, I was hoping this would be known by cha already. What I am saying though is make use of what you have.
eg Use the mobile to contact ATC and advise of situ. then proceed as per plan, use what communication you can and as you have planned properly ATC will be aware of the use of your alternate.

eg2 Use the mobile to phone the RP to attend the lights.

[4SPOOLED]

change your transponder code.....mobile phone handy if need be, At the end of the day, your in command of your aircraft and the safety of your pax and yourself.

If your judgement is to fly into CTA and land because you cannot activate PAL then that is your judgement call. As long as it is safe to do so, you dont act like a cowboy, and you watch for those lights on the tower and follow as directed then a clear and responsible head always wins.....:ok:

[Cha]

Thanks everyone for your reply. All your responses are very helpful to make me think what I really should do.
I guess if there is only one VHF in the aircraft, and no mobile or battery run out, then I think I should really have a responsible person. Let's say we have dual VHF or VHF and HF, then we can use PAL equipped aerodrome as an alternate, but if we had total electic failure, which make me impossible to activate PAL or to contact ATC on HF (say no mobile) I believe that's kind of abnormal situation and fly into CTA if that is only available option.

[UnderneathTheRadar]

I would be asking why the GAAP aerodrome doesn't have 24 hour lighting with backup (i.e. meeting all the requirements so no lighting alternate required) so as to prevent the scenario I would employ in that situation (nominate international airport as alternate then squawk a comms failure). Surely providing a 'way out' for a/c OCTA that doesn't require them to go CTA is the way to go? Moorabbin is set up that way - obviously others aren't?

UTR

PS Where do you find a responsible person anyway - one with access to the lights must surely be an airport employee and awfully expensive to have sitting around waiting for you?

[maxgrad]

The police at small towns are very helpfull when contacted to activate lighting.
I once arrived at night at a territory town and as soon I activated PAL the lights came on then the airport and town lights went out. The emergency backup for the airport activated but the town was without lights for a couple of hours.

The regs with regard to lighting are designed so you have options. Plan your flight well and you will have those options.

[jandakotpilot]

If you have 7600 on your XPDR ATC will have a pretty good idea what is going on if you divert to a primary CTR.
If you have a total elec failure then it gets interesting!

[Tinstaafl]

I think there's some misunderstood rules about alternates for NVFR.

There are 3 broad categories of items needed to get lights working - a power source, a switch, and the lights themselves. The underlying tenet in the alternate-due-lighting requirements is that a single failure of 'something' (within the bounds of reasonableness) won't leave you in the dark, hence the need for a backup of some sort.

WRT to alternates due runway lights and keeping in mind that a 'responsible person' can allow some liberties here & there with the backup concept:

A backup for the power supply can be in the form of standby power, PTBL + a responsible person to lay them out, or a different airstrip.

The rules specify that you DON'T need an alternate IF the destination has a standby power supply & the lights are confirmed on. If ATC is at the aerodrome then they will ensure the lights are switched on prior to knocking off (or they'll raise a NOTAM in which case the airstrip is no longer suitable anyway. You *do* check NOTAMS prior to departing....?). ERSA will note if the lights can be expected to be on HN & if there's STBY power.

In this case there's no alternate needed because the power supply has a backup & a failure of one or a few runway lights still leaves the rest of them working (they're not like xmas tree lights ie in series so it's not a case of one out - all out). The 'on' switch doesn't need backing up because the lights are already on, if that makes sense.

If there's no STBY power then you'll need an alternate. The alternate could be another aerodrome or it could be PTBL lighting + a responsible person to lay them out.

Independently of the STBY power condition, if the lights aren't HN then you'll need some means of switching them on, either a responsible person, or PAL.

The responsible person option needs to have the lights on from 60 mins before your ETA until you've landed. This also applies at the alternate if using a responsible person there. The idea is that a responsible person is presumed to be reliable & have enough common sense to take appropriate action if the lights don't come on (call the local electrician to replace the switch, layout the PTBLs or whatever).

If PAL at the destination then you'll need an alternate. The reasoning is that the switch has two parts - your VHF + the ground receiver system - either one of which could fail.

You're allowed to use a second airfield with PAL as an alternate subject to some conditions.

1. You must have either:

2 x VHF. If the lights don't come on at the destination using COM 1 then use use COM 2. If they still don't switch on then the problem is likely to be on the ground half of the switch or power supply so off you go to the alternate. It's unlikely that the alternate's receiver is also stuffed. As it's also a second airstrip then it's power supply can be considered to be independent of from the destination's supply. In other words it does the job of a standby power supply, albeit using a different set of runway lights as well as a standby 'on' switch (one of the two VHF + the alternate's PAL receiver)

or

1 x VHF + HF + 30 mins holding. Lights don't switch on at the destination then depart for the alternate while using the HF to call FS to get the lights switched on for you. Use the 30 mins holding while waiting for the local cop or whoever to get out of bed & to the alternate airstrip.

[Cha]

Thanks for some more reply. I'll save all of your replies and do bit more study about this.
Yes, it is difficult to get responsible person at Jandakot anyway.

But my real question was;
If aircraft has ONLY ONE VHF for NVFR with destination Jandakot, which only has PAL after tower hours, flight can be legally proceeded providing alternate which has non PAL (Perth) or PAL with responsible person. Responsible person is difficult to get anyway so only option is Perth.

But is it legally OK to nominate Perth as an alternate assuming your only one VHF radio might fail so you can't activate PAL at Jandakot? or should not plan to use Perth as an alternate because it is inside CTA and need radio to get a clearance? which means no go if aircraft has only one VHF.

If it happens when I'm in the air then I just go to Perth anyway rather than get fuel to run out with transponder set to 7600. But for planning stage, do you plan to go or no go with single VHF? or is it legal? although many NVFR aircraft has dual VHF but let's say you found one not working.

[maxgrad]

I'd plan alt as Perth with regard to lighting. The fail in the system could be at the lighting end and not your comms.
Radio failure adds another area of the AIP/ERSA as well as lighting in a single comm case

[Tinstaafl]

Minor point, but with a single VHF & no HF+30mins you can't plan a PAL airstrip as an alternate. Once an airstrip has a responsible person then it's no longer considered as a 'PAL' airstrip for the purposes of alternate planning. Of course that doesn't stop you using whatever PAL is present if you end up flying there - but it's still not a PAL airstrip as far as alternate planning is concerned.

WRT to the single comm vs Perth alternate thing: There's no rule that says you must have two comms to fly into Perth. Ergo, as long as you have at least one comm then you can plan into Perth to your hearts content as a destination or as an alternate.

However, once you experience a COM failure then you need to follow the guidance of the Emergency section of ERSA. Nothing in that precludes you going to Perth - no comms or otherwise - if it's necessary for the safety of your flight.