SD memory cards for cameras. Formatting.

[acbus1]

SD memory cards for cameras.

Done a Proon search with no success.....so here I go from scratch.......

Just bought a Pentax Optio 50 digital camera and a Kingston Elite Pro 256mb SD memory card.

I've read in a photography magazine that I'm supposed to format the card. A quick Google (well, a slow, time consuming one, actually) reveals that the "Format" command in Windows isn't up to a required standard of compliance. So I located a download for a compliant bit of software......in fact it was the only download I could find, and it won't work, telling me that my drive is not compatible.


Question, please -- Should I be fussing with all of this in the first place, ie is the magazine article a load of rubbish?

If it's not a load of rubbish, then could anyone please advise what is the dogs for formatting, please.

[spekesoftly]

Can't you just pop the SD card in the camera and select format from the menu?

Edit: (Ah! SP2 beat me to it)

[acbus1]

Thanks, peeps, but...........

There's definitely no format command in any of the menus. I looked for that first.

Do you mean delete the images? I can do that one image at a time in the camera. I've also experimented and popped the card into my PC, right clicked on files, then selected "delete". Both work OK to delete images. I could obviously delete all images.

But that's deleting, not formatting, isn't it? Or is it?

[Conan the Librarian]

For Gawds' sake do NOT format a camera card from within Windows. Aways format the card in the camera for which it is used, as the card can bugger up quite nicely with your priceless pics on it. you could lose them all, thank you very much.

I have never seen a camera wth no format command, but it may be nested in a sub menu somewhere. If you can't find it, please post here and PM me. I will find out what the exact procedure is. I can't believe that the camera has auto formatting, but more than one manufacturer has made a button/key press combination the way to go, in order to prevent some users from formatting treasured piccies accidentally.

Conan

Edited a few mins later - page 22 of the manual

Optio 50? You are looking for a menu called "Setup1" The format command is about three down.


Happy snapping! :-)

Conan

[shuttlebus]

Conan,

Sorry to diagree, but from personal experience, I have not, to date, (says he tempting fate) had an issue formatting a card under windows. (This with a Canon digital camera)

The secret is to ensure that it is formatted as FAT, not FAT32 or NTFS.

However, since you can delete the pictures from your cards (and any folders if using a PC) why would you ever need to format a card in the first place? It is not the same as a floppy/hard disk where errors, such as bad sectors, can appear on the disk. Generally, solid state memory is exactly that, solid state, so to speak. Re-formatting the card should make no material difference to the usability or performance of the card.

If it aint broke, don't fix it:cool:

Regards,

Shuttlebus

P.S. Three posts tonight now....:{

[Conan the Librarian]

Usually it works - but it can screw up quite nicely. Check on any digital user site for horror stories :-)


Conan

[rotorcraig]

The manual is here (http://www.pentaximaging.com/files/manual/Optio50_web.pdf)

Answers is indeed on page 22

Formatting an SD Memory Card or Internal Memory

The term "Formatting" means preparing an "SD Memory Card" to record images; this process is also called "initialization". This utility formats the internal memory (or memory card) and erases all stored images and data.

1. Rotate the mode dial to SCREWDRIVER AND SPANNER and turn your camera on by pressing the ON/OFF button.
The [Set-up1] menu is displayed.
2. Use DOWN ARROW to select [Format], then press the OK button.
3. Use UP or DOWN ARROW to select [OK], then press the OK button to confirm.
RC

[spekesoftly]

For Gawds' sake do NOT format a camera card from within Windows. Aways format the card in the camera for which it is used, as the card can bugger up quite nicely with your priceless pics on it. you could lose them all, thank you very much.

Not doubting the wisdom of your advice, but I don't quite follow. If you format a card in the camera, as opposed to within Windows, doesn't it also delete all the photos anyway? Or, going the Windows route, is there a risk of permanently damaging the card?


acbus1

For what it's worth, I've re-checked my Pentax Optio (older model - 330), and there's definitely a format option in the set-up menu.

[PPRuNe Pop]

I read all the way down in the belief that someone would assure you there is a format action in your camera.

Then there it was - just as it is with all digi cams.

But NEVER be tempted to do from within Windows - it will cost you plenty if you do.

PPP

[shuttlebus]

Note...

I never used the phrase NEVER... as in never had a problem... that would be too much like tempting fate!

After all, it is Windows we are talking about :D

Seems the sound advice is to "do it" with the camera.

Regards,

Shuttlebus

[Conan the Librarian]

I know that the logic would suggest otherwise, but many, many users have reported corrupted files after formatting in Windows. This can put a real crimp on a special day...

Often the problem is the file system, as related by Shuttlebus, but not always. If you look in these columns, you may have noticed that there are many flavours of USB for instance- a system that should be universal, but shows that some devices are more universal than others. It is always better to format in the camera and in fact some manufacturers will only warrant their cameras with certain cards, yet these are also equally universal. (My own Nikon D70 is a case in point. If the card is not on Nikons list, then they ain't interested if there is a problem)

If there is an analogy, it might be like getting somebody else to try a condom on your behalf prior to use, to see how big it is.

Regards to all,


Conan

PS the Kingston Elite Pro is a corking little card. Fast, reliable and good value too. I use a pair of the 2GB versions and I will certainly buy another one soon.

[acbus1]

Thanks, peeps!

The info given above has led me to the format function in my camera! Yessssssss!! :D

I'm wondering why the camera didn't come with the manual linked to, in the posts above.

It came with a glossy 15 page manual (well, more like 90 pages, but only 15 are English) and thats it! No mention of many of the items in the linked-to manual!



Thanks!

:ok:

[Background Noise]

I think this question was slipped in somewhere above, but do you actually need to format the card. You say you have images on the card so it is obviously working happily as it is.

[Hew Jaz]

.....but do you actually need to format the card. You say you have images on the card so it is obviously working happily as it is.

After reading the thread, I was wondering that myself. I have never formatted a camera card. I've taken shots, and 'moved' them onto the pc, which has therefore deleted them from the card.

I have then used the various cards again, and they have seemed ok - so far....:hmm:

Have looked at the camera and there is a format option, but do I need to use it? Should I be using it??:eek:

[Conan the Librarian]

A lot of cards come pre formatted (including the Kingstons referred to) but the wise Monkey will put it in his camera and reformat.

For me, I can't remember having deleted photgraphs direct from the card. My usual repartee is to click, click click - download via card reader - put back into camera - reformat.

Now - back to my own Friday nightmare - a new phone cum PDA. Wish me luck...


Conan

[Hew Jaz]

I'm using SanDisk & Fuji - presumably they were pre-formatted, 'cause they worked from the outset.

When I've 'moved' the photos, it seems to have deleted them from the card, which I've put back into the camera, and carried on clicking.... and so far ok.

But maybe from now on, the wise monkey :) will be 'moving' the pic's to pc and putting the card back into the camera for a 'format'.:ok:

Oh, Good Luck!!! :ok: :ok:

[Cornish Jack]

I started a related topic re CF cards recently and have singularly failed to sort the problem:{
One 64 Mb card suddenly started to register in both my cameras as 'incorrect format' (or some such similar). With such a message, the camera WILL NOT format the card.:(
I had, some time ago, formatted one of my other cards in the 'pooter' (probablyW98) as FAT or FAT 16 and it worked perfectly well. Initially, attempts to repeat this with the new problem card produced an incorrect capacity indication, an attempted format process and a message saying that Windows could not complete the format. I tried this a number of times on four different computers all with the same result.
I recently purchased a USB2 CF reader and inserting the card in this, firstly, allowed it to read the full correct capacity and, secondly, to complete the format process. It is now recognised by My Computer as a removable drive at the correct size, BUT ONLY WHEN INSERTED IN THIS PARTICULAR READER:confused: I can transfer files and media and they are readable and recoverable. HOWEVER, if I put the card in the camera, it again indicates 'incorrect card' or suchlike. I can, therefore use it in my PDAs but not in my cameras .... isn't electronic technology wonderful?
In my previous thread I had reached the point of discovering CF Format - a program which supposedly can cope with these problems and solve them ,, but only if MS Active Synch is installed. I duly installed said software and tried again ... the card cannot be seen in ANY of my four different readers.
One wonders why such an, apparently, simple technology can be so little understood, written about or supported.
Exits left, grumbling.:sad:

[Conan the Librarian]

That is a good example of how a universal, open architecture protocol is interpreted by a particular system. It should be as readable there as here.

I think of two solutions here (and trust me, the card manufacturers are right behind you here - their one size fits all approach, sometimes becomes a "One size fits sod all") and the first is to drop an email to the card manufacturer, to see what they say. These things are often guaranteed for life. The second and maybe more fun, knowing that there is no data onboard, is to reformat via the working reader into a different format like NTFS and trhen check that it is readable ny the PC. Then reformat to FAT32 and so on. Hopefully, it will kick the card into compliance somewhere along the route.

If no joy, let me know - I think I could get my teeth into this one :-)

Conan

[Helli-Gurl]

Never formatted one in my life and they've all worked just fine with no probs both in the camera nad on my laptop

x

[Maxbert]

Hmmmm.... Using CF cards in my by now jurassic Nikon digital camera (bought 2001... :( ), I must say that I always format the card in the camera after transferring pics, and I have never encountered a problem, either when hooking the camera up to my (now defunct) desktop, or by slotting the card into my replacement, card-reader equipped laptop.

However, this formatting thread is interesting- I have just bought a new RS-MMC card, for use in my mobile (reason being I have GPS in my phone), and I have transferred various "countries" into the new RS-MMC card- There is no FORMAT function on the phone, I was unsure which option to pick from the PC, and the GPS manual is mute on the subject...

Data transferred, phone seems to recognise the maps, but I will have to see when actually on the move- Why is formatting so important? How is it different to "Select all" - "Delete"? :confused:

[Jhieminga]

Why is formatting so important? How is it different to "Select all" - "Delete"?
Deleting: emptying all the drawers in a filing cabinet.
Formatting: installing a filing cabinet in the first place!
Unformatted card: empty, dark room. Try finding your paperwork in that!

Now think of fitting A3 sized paperwork into A4 sized drawers, and you'll get the idea behind different formatting options.
So if you always store A4 stuff in either A4 or A3 drawers, you're ok, but you could run into trouble if something doesn't fit one day. The good thing about formatting a card is that your filing cabinet is brand new again, no loose old paperwork or stuck drawers anymore, and if you format using the device that you want to use the card with, you'll be sure to get the right filing system :ok:

(Slightly low-tech explanation, apologies to any offended readers ;) )

[oldfella]

Almost all cards come formatted nowadays. Once photos are transferred to computer, moved rather than copied, the card is ready to re-use and there should be no need to format it.

I've had a couple of cameras, as well as family members with their cameras, and the only time I've had to format a card is after a screwup - wife taking the card out of the camera with the camera switched on!!!!!! daughet taking card out of the camera and laying it down near a magnet!!!!! Bith guaranteed to lose pictures and possibly screw the card.

Always formatted from within the camera.

[FJJP]

I, too, am a bit puzzled. I've bought a number of different card types for different cameras and never formatted. I just bung them in and they work. Same with the cards for my HP iPaq. I suppose like a floppy that's gone wrong, you can re-format if the card throws a wobbly, but so far it hasn't happened.

[Feline]

Probably better to format card in camera. Reason being that you may find that camera adds a directory structure to the card once it has formatted the card. On my ancient Olympus, it creates a directory structure \DCIM\Olymp100 and the pictures are stored in the \Olymp100 directory. If you use a card that has not been formatted in the camera and doesn't have this directory structure, it will store the pictures, but it is totally impossible to access them. The "DCIM' sub-directory forms part of an industry standard for video (camera) and music devices - but I cannot remember where I saw the complete description.
Formatting a storage device such as a card (or for that matter, a disk) simply "prepares it to store data". A "Quick" format simply erases everything off it - a "Complete" or "Full" format also checks the integrity of the media (and will mark any bad sectors or clusters so that they cannot be used to store data).

[Cornish Jack]

Conan
Thank you for the suggestions. I haven't, so far, e-mailed San Disk, mainly because the card is useable as a transfer device but no use in the cameras.
I DID try the reformat option but only as FAT and FAT 32 because the NTFS option wasn't listed. On the one reader that works, it was fine, but, as before, the card was unreadable on any other reader or the cameras.
I have also tried transferring the DCIM plus sub-folder info onto the card and then trying in the camera but, again, no joy.
I have to say that I cannot see why a collection of 0s and 1s can so drastically change when looked at in different devices. Digital is very strange:(

[Conan the Librarian]

I just trawled this off the Dell Axim users group (I am awating delivery of one) and found this. Might be of particular interest to Cornish Jack.


"Note about defragmenting: Defragmentation refers to the process of reorganizing data on a hard drive in order to maximize speed and performance of the system. It is not possible to defragment your Axim’s main memory but a few commercial programs such as Flash Format, StorageTools for Pocket PC and Pocket Mechanic will allow you to defragment, scan and reformat your storage cards. You can also reformat your cards through your desktop PC using a card reader. It should be noted, however, that storage cards (not including microdrives) work differently from hard drives and do not benefit either in speed nor performance from defragmentation. If you are having trouble with flash memory, try reformatting the card. If that doesn't work, it could be the memory card itself that is the problem. Many Axim users have found Sandisk brand Secure Digital cards to be problematic, and have experienced serious card failure that could not be resolved without losing data.

I also seem to remember an issue with SanDisk CF cards a few months back on a camera forum. Don't use them myself so have no views. For camera use, I would still NEVER format through other than the camera though.

Conan

[Cornish Jack]

Thanks again, Conan
I've just downloaded trial versions of all three of those progs but they pose a slight problem in that they require a PDA interface to access the CF card - nothing there which works with camera cards.
As follow-up to these problems. I have just bought a job lot of 5 used CF cards and 2 unused similar. Trying them in the cameras, the used ones registered accurately on insertion and formatted in camera. The new ones both failed to register initially on one camera, but WERE subsequently formatted and recognised OK on the other (both Minoltas, by the way). They were accepted in the original camera after that.
The previously mentioned problem card still fails as a camera card but is fine in other applications.
"Curiouser and curiouser," said Alice:confused:

[Cornish Jack]

Final update on this - from me, at least.
Have just purchased a multi card reader from Maplins. It was recognised without any driver installation and reacted instantaneously to a card being inserted ... sooooo .. decided to try the 'problem child' card. Recognised for correct size and the mp3 files were seen OK. Used Power Desk to attempt a reformat. Specified it as FAT and it completed in little more than a second. Put it into my main camera and it was instantly recognised. Just to further check, I switched it to Setup and Format and OK'd that. ... Perfect !!:ok:
So the card is universally usable again AND I STILL DON'T KNOW WTHIH!!!
Exit left mumbling and grinning, idiot-like!:D