Melbourne Closed ?

[jetblues]

Just saw this NOTAM. Whats happening ?

C622/05 REVIEW C621/05
AD NOT AVBL DUE PAVEMENT DAMAGE
FROM 10 260228 TO 10 260300 EST

[Pass-A-Frozo]

but wait.. there's more:

AD NOT AVBL DUE PAVEMENT DAMAGE
FROM 10 260258 TO 10 260400 EST

Sky news reports Thai airlines touches down hard, and shredded two tyres [due "crosswinds"]

[T-bone]

Thai Airways...hard landing causing undercarriage fire. Couldn't have picked a better spot to stop..unfortunately right at the rwy intersection. Doh!

[Capt. On Heat]

32 minutes of something (EST!)

[Pass-A-Frozo]

Couldn't have picked a better spot to stop..unfortunately right at the rwy intersection. Doh!

I hear Capt. Murphy is quietly impressed with his effort.

[blueloo]

This is where QANTAS's minimum fuel policy *shines*

[Sunfish]

I wondered why it was so quiet overhead.

[Nudlaug]

From seven.com.au

Melbourne airport at standstill
Date: 26/10/05

A Thai Airways jet has blown several tyres upon landing at Melbourne airport, which has been brought to a standstill.

The plane was stranded at the intersection of two runways at the airport, said a spokesman for air traffic control agency Airservices Australia.

The Airbus A340 "landed heavily" and "damaged a number of wheels on landing", the spokesman told AAP.

"There was a small fire in the undercarriage," he said.

Planes are being diverted to Adelaide and Avalon airports for the time being and engineers are looking at the under-carriage to see whether the plane can be towed.

So far, 12 planes had been diverted from the airport or delayed.



And various other media:


Passenger jet landing scare
By Paul Colgan and AAP
26oct05

MELBOURNE airport was shut to all traffic for nearly two hours today after the tyres blew out on a Thai Airways jet when it landed in a strong crosswind.

Thai Airways Flight 981 from Bangkok came to a halt on the intersection between the two runways at Australia\'s second-busiest airport.

The Airbus A340 has now been moved to a taxiway and the airport has opened for business again.

No passengers were injured but the airport was forced to divert all traffic to Avalon and Adelaide airports.

A spokesman for the Air Transport Safety Bureau said the plane shredded three tyres on its main landing gear after landing heavily.

"There was a strong crosswind," the spokesman said.

ATSB officials are likely to conduct an investigation.

A Melbourne Airport spokeswoman said there was a possibility the hydraulics of the aircraft had been damaged in the landing.

Passengers had been safely escorted into the terminal afterwards, she said.

The aircraft was stranded at the intersection of two runways at the airport and air traffic controllers reported a small fire in the undercarriage as it landed on Runway 16.

"There was a small fire in the undercarriage," he said. At least 12 planes were diverted from the airport or delayed.

[vee1-rotate]

aircraft hit the ground pretty hard and swerved all over the runway...lots of smoke everywhere...

aircraft stopped on taxiway juliet and was surrounded by airport fire services...all passengers were bussed to the terminal approx. 1 hour after the incident...

airport was closed for around 2 hours, all flights diverting, most to AVV, ADL and LST...

Rex 3471 ex. Merimbula diverted to Essendon, and departed around 2.30pm back to Melbourne...all passengers were bussed to Melbourne from Essendon...

Eventful day...all happened just as I clocked off, so left the mess to the afternoon shift :ok: :D :D

[jetblues]

Latest ATIS RW 27 avbl, RW 16 remains closed due pavement damage.

[Capt Claret]

Are the press reports of the aircraft landing RWY16 and stopping on the RWY27 intersection correct? The aircraft was stranded at the intersection of two runways at the airport and air traffic controllers reported a small fire in the undercarriage as it landed on Runway 16.

If so, no wonder there was a (brake?) fire, that's not much of a landing roll! :eek:

[overpitched]

When I saw it the airport was still closed and from memory it was parked on taxiway Juliet (most likely) or possibly Kilo surrounded by fire appliances etc.

[Capt Basil Brush]

I went through ML this morning, and the wind was gusting to 50 kts - luckily straight down 34.

Fun Fun Fun!!

[willadvise]

Clarie
You are right it didn't pull up at the intersection. Apparantly it did damage at the interesection which is why both rwys were closed for a while.

[Vacant Towers]

willadvise, if it only had 2 engines then perhaps only one is missing. The Thai website says TG981 into MEL on WED is a MD-11.:{

http://www.thaiairways.com.au/flight_sch/

VT

[Buster Hyman]

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/10/26/2610webfr_airport1.jpg
There you go...an Airbus!

[Capt Claret]

Ch9 in DRW's just shown footage (claimed to be) of the aircraft on final approach.

The comentary says (something to the effect that) a gust of wind knocked it off course. The footage is good enough that I reckon one can see a fair bit of right rudder deflection.

The actual touchdown couldn't be seen, except for the fin over the obstacles in the foreground.

Later shots showed not much of a STBD tyre left!

Touch wood.

[Mr. Hat]

Was there any mention of a croc on the runway..?

[hoss]

How do you say 'tea and biccies' in Thai, is it 'Gaeng Keow Warn'? :)

[Vacant Towers]

Just goes to highlight the accuracy or otherwise of the internet..................................

VT

[Mr. Boeing]

Betcha it wouldn't have happened if it was a Boeing! ;)

[Don Esson]

Was their Thronomister U/S???:O

[ilovemycessna]

Great footage of the approach, check out this link!

http://ninemsn.video.msn.com/v/en-au/v.htm?f=39&g=27cb9df5-50bc-4433-b88c-f9f9d2179e1b&p=aunews_aunationalninenews&t=s29

[A37575]

Rumour has it that the CVR picked up the voice of the PF who said "I can't fly these things for nuts, but I can input the FMS at 80 words a minute.

[SMOC]

Anybody having trouble with the ninemsn video download as I get the click the links below and follow the on-screen instructions.
Once the installations are complete, reload this page. except I get no instructions.

SMOC

[EngineOut]

Bloody long touch down if it took gouges out of the runway at the intersection of 16/34 and 09/27!!!

[Wizofoz]

Another thread is suggesting the crew requested RW27 (Shorter plus 30kt crosswind) because it has an ILS, rather than RW34 and a visual approach.

Can anyone confirm?


If so a clear case where erosion of basic skills has led to bent metal....:sad: :oh: :sad:

[G-CPTN]

>Anybody having trouble with the ninemsn video download as I get the click the links below and follow the on-screen instructions.
Once the installations are complete, reload this page. except I get no instructions.


*******************************

I normally use Mozilla, which gives the symptoms you describe. Switching to Internet Explorer - everything works just fine!
Go figure . . .

[Buster Hyman]

You mean this intersection Engine out???
http://www.rwy34.com/rwys/images/tulla.jpg
Okay, I'll bite. Why is it so long?

[the_hawk]

YMML 260300Z 27021KT 9999 FEW035 BKN040 BKN065 18/07 Q1001 FM0300 MOD TURB BLW 5000FT
YMML 260200Z 26023KT 9999 BKN040 SCT065 18/09 Q1000 FM0200 MOD TURB BLW 5000FT
YMML 260100Z 34014KT 9999 BKN046 20/08 Q0999 FM0130 29026G38KT 9999 -SHRA SCT035 SCT060 INTER 0200/0400 4000 SHRA BKN020 FM0100 MOD TURB BLW 5000FT

Nothing wrong with choosing rwy 27 from this figures (?)

OTOH it could be a rwy 16 landing with strong 260ish crosswind :confused:

[Critical Reynolds No]

Is there a delete button for the Digital Flight Recorders that one may press after such an incident?

I'm sure the ATSB wouldn't want to see the "black" boxes anyway.

Cheers

[MaxspeedSlowdown]

All makes sense now.

Must have been a Rwy 16 Landing.

Evidence:

Rwy 16 has HIAL, Rwy 34 only has RIL.

Sunbury Road in foreground.

Slope of terrain. Rwy 34 u/shoot has a good view of the rwy.

Is that the top of tower on the RHS of the video?

Probably more give aways if you look hard enough.

[Sunfish]

Bloke (747 pilot with 18 years expereince) just came up on 774 (abc Melbourne) explaining that he thought "erosion of basic piloting skills" was the cause, not enough hand flying, too much automatics!

[Roo]

Bloody long touch down if it took gouges out of the runway at the intersection of 16/34 and 09/27!!!

No mate, The video clearly shows they landed on Rwy 16. So not necessarily a long touch down at all. there was a turbulent 50 Kt Northerly Straight down runway 34 about 3 hours earlier, which had swung to the west by to time this occurred.

[greybeard]

Sunfish, you 747 driver has it in an unfortunate nutshell.

Basic flying skills/management are on the decline, following the line drawn on the Nav/GPS screen is all the go even in early solo PPL navs. One of my family regularly checked the bag of her PPL students on solo and found not 1 BUT 2 hand held GPS on one day same student.
I know the modern trend is for some very fancy gear in all classes of aircraft and NDBs are on the way out but talking to Check/trainers in several local Companies, basic "dont turn inside the needles", "allow for wind outbound", "intercept angles and end of holding patterns geometry" are BIG ?????? to far too many people.
As for actually doing a Xwind landing, ???? aileron, ???co-ordinated rudder, ??? aligned with the runway on touchdown.
To be "fair" our Thai crew who fly all over the world spend 95% of the time on Auto, radar vectors and in the tropics generally little xwind got sprung in a big way with good old mother nature having a blow.
How many of all of us are prepared to GO AROUND even after touch if it all looks pear shaped, provided reverse is not selected of course? How many will TELL ATC which runway is REQUIRED? How many of us have that extra fuel for such little niceties as a few minutes "thinking time" to get the safest and best result, not one forced on us by Ops, schedule, ATC and turn around times.

The main bit of all this is the Aircraft survived essentially intact, probably needs a HEAVY inspection, repairs etc, but the pax and crew caught the bus to the terminal, some a few minutes of fame on TV, and the rest of us can pontificate on someone else having a bad day, not us, which is the best way to learn, nes pa??

[canuck76]

Captain Phuket Readalottaporn was quoted as saying

"There was lot of wind, so push throttle plenty to make plane go fast,
see. Because otherwise go backward. But then, see, halfway down runway
I see big fockin hole, bigger than Thai girl at pattya, you know what I
mean? So try to miss, but no luck. Plane come down, bang, tyres they
go, bang, bang, bang. Now I know why they call copilot number two. He
doing, number one, number two, everything. Very smelly. So we stop. We think plane broken so go to local bar while they fix."

[tinpis]

:ok: I think the canucks on to it...that and the thronomister settings all to buggery....

[blueloo]

Can anyone save that ninemsn video as a file to download, my pissy dial up wont let me watch the video clearly it comes through in bursts.

[Pinky the pilot]

Re the incident itself; A friend of mine fluent in Thai taught me a phrase which would suit the occasion perfectly;
"Sum num na!!":E

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Skypatrol]

A/C landed on Rwy 16 leaving skid marks to the left (where it nearly departed the runway) and then to the right of centreline... Rumours of 2 bounces before the skidding too...

[VR-HFX]

Commentary to the video mentioned sudden gust of wind just before "arrival"... more like cross wind disappeared over the threshold if you look at what he is doing after he went over the fence.

Obviously not lined up at any stage on the centre line cos he sure gave the right rudder pedal a belting...about the time he should have given the left peddle a nudge.

This arrival could sit well amongst some of the doozies on R13 at KaiTak.

Perhaps he was trying to replicate the JetBlue sound and light show, albeit with a new and interesting technique.

Those Bus thingies are a bit sloppy over the threshold which also wouldnt have helped him.

Brand new piece of kit so assume this will put TG's New York direct schedule in a somewhat difficult situation.

Bad hair day but glad everyone walked away.

[VH-Cheer Up]

TG was probably just squaring up for the damage OJH did to the ILS, peri track, lighting and the 12th green at BKK...

Wonder if the CVR makes for interesting listening?

Can't help but wonder if the topic of an RTO might have come up "below five thousand"?

OK, I know, wait for the report to come out...

VHCU

[VR-HFX]

My guess is the guy in the LHS has lots of hours but not on the Bus....and probably not many (if any) landings into YMML. twas the 777 doing it up till now.

The CVR will probably show nothing as these particular moments in history often pass without comment...especially from the F/O.

No doubt he should have gone around but these days the mind-set is land.... at X$ a barrel.

He probably had enough holding to get back to BKK given it has the legs to go BKK-JFK!!

As to the 12th green...they may well have a couple of new caddies there soon enough!!

[Soulman]

HFX - think you'll find it was the MD-11 doing the day trips into ML up until the recent addition of the A346. The night arrival from Sydney is either a B743/4 - depends on the day.

Been many a moon since ML saw a Thai T7...

Cheers,

Soulman.

[speeeedy]

The A340-600 cannot do BKK - JFK, you are thinking of the A340-500.

[VR-HFX]

Correct..it is an A-345 which TG bought to do BKK-JFK.

As I understand from my spies in BKK the bidding system favoured long haul and so few on the 345 have bus experience....QED

[Jenna Talia]

Can anyone advise what the ATIS was or the actual conditions? I find that usually, ATC advise the wind direction and strength to most aircraft whilst on finals when winds are inordinately strong.

[willadvise]

ATIS YMML W 260029
+ RWY: 27 FOR ARR. RWY 34 FOR DEP NE,
RWY 27 FOR ALL OTHER DEP
+ OPR INFO:
+ WND: 310/8-18,
MXW 14KTS RWY 27
VIS: GREATER THAN 10 KM
CLD: BKN035
+ TMP: 20
QNH: 999
+ SIGWX:

ATIS YMML X 260120
RWY: 27 FOR ARR. RWY 34 FOR DEP NE,
RWY 27 FOR ALL OTHER DEP
+ WND: 290/8-18,
MXW 12KTS BOTH RWYS
VIS: GREATER THAN 10 KM
+ CLD: BKN045
+ TMP: 21
QNH: 999




ATIS YMML Y 260130
+ RWY: 27
+ WND: 230-280/18-30,
MXW 14KTS
VIS: GREATER THAN 10 KM
CLD: BKN045
+ TMP: 19
QNH: 999

ATIS YMML N 260209
RWY: NOT AVBL
SFC COND: ALL RWYS OOS DUE PAVEMENT DAMAGE
WND: 230-280/18-30
VIS: GREATER THAN 10 KM
CLD: BKN045
TMP: 17
QNH: 1000


I don't know why it went from Y to N instead of A but N appears to be the next ATIS.

[Chief galah]

Essendon use ATIS's

Alpha to Mike,

and Zulu when tower closed.

CG

[flightleader]

Played the video three times and this is what I observed.

If it is a storng gust of wind ,it is likely to push the whole a/c drift towards the downwind side and lift the right wing a little.Instead,the tail sway suddenly to the left(downwind side) and wings maintain level. It looks like a deliberate ruddur input and cross control to keep wings level. This is done as per conventional a/c as the a/c is now below 100ft where the flight control system is in direct law.

The blown tyre is the no 1 tyre.( left move forward) If the cross wind landing technic is correct,this should be the last tyre to touch down. It would not have suffer excesive stress causing it to tear into pieces. A340-5/600 has a set of additional body boggy and the main wing boggies are tilted at large angle. All the weight and stress would have been absorbed by all the other tyres before no 1 touch down,right?

Would it be the case that wrong rudder input caused the tail to sway left resulting some dutch roll and further left wing down input made the left gear to touch down first instead of the right gear first. Plus the additional flight control deflection induces more drag causing the a/c to sink like a rock? Of course,gusty condition like that is definately bad as the A330/340 thrust lags badly in gust.

I don't mean to put the crew down,but this is just my observation and welcome all feed back and disagreement.

[Capt Fathom]

Wrong Rudder input applied on touchdown?

[amos2]

Aw! C'mon fellas...let's not beat around the bush!...

it was a simple x wind landing and they well and truly stuffed it up!

:sad:

[VR-HFX]

Amos is probably correct.

He was still chasing the centreline over the fence with the rudder and should have pressed to TOGA button well before he got in that position.

Likely that the cross wind dropped off early and he lost the plot.

[CasperA320]

Yes I agree He pushed the wrong rudder in the flare

The bus has a very powerfull rudder and you only get that much movement if you kick to much rudder, let alone the wrong one

If you check the video closely watch the tail move with the wrong input, the gust would have to be huge to effect a big a/c like that