View Full Version : YES or NO
No-one is specifically saying AIPA definately WILL get a seat at the table if the EBA is voted up. The Chief Executive, the Chief Pilot and the outgoing AIPA President have all specifically stated we definately WON'T gain anything if the EBA is voted down.
Exactly what 'leverage' is voting NO going to gain?
Before someone runs with the debate about 'bargaining periods' and 'protected industrial action', consider first that there is no transfer of business between Mainline and Jetstar. They are different business models designed to serve different markets, and any routes that Jetstar flies to in lieu of mainline are those that are unsustainable with the mainline product. On top of that, no jobs are under threat. That is all the AIRC is going to look at. There is no leverage to gain.
blueloo
25th Oct 2005, 07:50
I think given the woeful display from AIPA, and the thuggery, threats and bullying from QF management from GD to the chief pilot(isnt it good that our own 'leader' threatens us), the troops are unhappy. The only voice we have is to Vote NO in the EBA. I think most people dont care whether we lose or gain money now, its come down to us telling them that we are not happy, and apparently the only way is via a vote.
Happy or not, voting NO doesn't 'stick it to the company', it sticks it to the pilots.
bonvol
25th Oct 2005, 08:21
And voting yes doesnt ? The offer is so inconsequential that if we dont get it then who cares. I don't.
The only thing that matters is the future flying and Dixon has given no guarantees on that. All he does is threaten us. What a great leader :yuk:
The QF motivation strategy
here (http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dick8ng.png)
DutchRoll
25th Oct 2005, 08:49
Happy or not voting NO doesn't 'stick it to the company', it sticks it to the pilots.
Exactly how is that? If we vote yes to an EBA in which the company has clearly said 'this is our offer, take it or leave it', and you don't think the company will do the same again and again and again while it chips away at real income and real conditions irrespective of its profit margin, you would have to be seriously deluded.
Record profits deserve some sort of reward to those who play no small part in facilitating them. And if you think that's not us, have you looked at the fuel and flight safety bills lately?:mad:
Sonny Hammond
25th Oct 2005, 09:17
The mere suggestion that a no vote is getting a significant response from the boss(es).
This is just an EBA!
It has to be NO to see what happens next!
Surely everyone agrees that YES means the managers can tuck this puppy in bed and make the big announcement about J* INT that no-one is going to like.
At this point I hope the J* boys get the guernsey, cause if GD has figured out yet another way of marginalising pilots, man, well, well. What can you say?
crew-use-only
25th Oct 2005, 11:58
youre going down the same way we Long Haul CC crew have.... dont make the same mistake as we did!
look at what we have!
AKL base
BKK base
S/haul A330 flying.
Jet*
dispensation on that horrendous LAX/JFK/LAX sector.
forced long service leave!
and the list goes on and on........You decide!
if your conditions get eroded the rest of us in the QF group are well and truly F()&%&......
blueloo
25th Oct 2005, 12:01
crew use only. we are stuffed anyway. yes or no vote will make no difference. GD is slowely working his way through each division. the public will be left with an airline which will no longer carry the pride of a nation
crew-use-only
25th Oct 2005, 12:14
you may be right blueloo
I can see you guys going down the same path...... what jet* are doing to you we have been done by the AKL And Thai base.
Excuse my ignorance by why did the AIPA refuse the jet* pilots membership. don't understand that one!
Would appreciate it if you could PM me with the answer, I have been reading PPrune for a couple of years on and off but have only recently registered.
blueloo
25th Oct 2005, 12:36
I dont know the answer to that. I think it was more of a union mis-management, and not necessarily what the pilots wanted. I think the union should cover all groups, but i dont think they should all be on the same seniority list. Most at QF want all covered by the union, but understandibly the guys from the other airlines are unwilling to join now. Who can blame them.
I think the mistake was realised by AIPA too late. The pilot body demanded action at the SGM in South Sydney leagues a few years back. It was promised, but yet again, the leadership didnt do what the members wanted. We have continued down to new lower heights ever since.
Calligula
25th Oct 2005, 12:52
JQ Aust pilots have been able to join AIPA, if they so choose, since the signing of the MOU some 18 months ago.
Most have chosen not to, so lets leave the 'we wuz rejected so youze can get kkked' excuse out now shall we......
Excuse my ignorance by why did the AIPA refuse the jet* pilots membership. don't understand that one!
The AIPA president at the time of the Impulse acquisition is now the Chief Pilot. I put to him directly at the time that we should be covering all pilots in the group. My concern was being white anted and that progression for all group pilots would assist. He disagreed and also stated that progression was not possible or feasable. Look where the pilot group is now. :( :sad:
Big Jan
25th Oct 2005, 14:53
Yeh thats right calligula, the Impulse guy's should never have had the cheek to approach AIPA when they did and deserved to be sent packing.Now that they are Jetstar they can join so hopefully AIPA can sideline them as a group.They aren't even real pilots just sc@bs and prostitutes and they should be grateful that AIPA will even talk to them.
Gee lets all rush to join now shall we !! :ok:
Incontinentia Butocs
25th Oct 2005, 16:06
Big Jan,
How right you are. The minority of QF mainline wankers that seriously believe that they are superior aviators tend to be either spoilt brats or cadets (aren't they the same?).
This bunch of heroes are going to say to Dixon 'stick your money and your jobs up your kazoo'.
My promotion is not far away now. Four years from AN Captain to QF Captain, who would have thought it?
My own polling says that 50% of the pilots will go to work if there is a stop work meeting.
Solidarity for ever!!!!
The minority of QF mainline wankers that ...tend to be either spoilt brats or cadets (aren't they the same?).
IB, are you an ex cadet? If so, then the remainder of your post sums up that point perfectly.
If not, then it certainly proves that you don't have to be an ex cadet to be a http://www.theaviationforum.com/phpbb/images/smiles/jerkit.gif
Incontinentia Butocs
26th Oct 2005, 00:59
Keg,
Read the profile son. Captain not cadet. Didn't you operate as my FO once?
bonvol
26th Oct 2005, 02:11
Hang on a minute.
IB refers to 4yrs from AN Captain to QF Captain if he gets a chance to scab on his colleagues so one would assume IB has only been in QF a short time.
Keg would hardly have operated as IB's F/O then :confused:
I think Keg nailed it with his last comment.
Dropt McGutz
26th Oct 2005, 03:35
Whether we vote yes or no, the company is going to shaft us either way. Let's face facts. We are NEVER going to get Jetstar International's flying. Why would we when QF would have to train blokes up to replace those going to Jetstar? I want the flying to go to the Qantas pilots too but I'm just being realistic.
But also, another point, THOSE THAT ARE GETTING JOBS WITH BOTH JETSTAR AND NATIONAL JET ARE PAYING FOR THEIR ENDORSEMENTS VIA SALARY SACRIFICE THEREFORE GIVING THESE COMPANIES A TAXPAYER FUNDED SUBSIDY!