RAF & 6th Form

[alexmac]

Possibly covered previously so my apologies to start with if it has - I'm in the initial stages of applying for the RAF 6th Form sponsorship for ground branches Air Traffic and Fighter Control; both of which have 8 places available for each this year. I understand that this is going to be a somewhat difficult task but I can only give it my best shot.

The first interview, at the AFCO is early next month and will base around personal history, aircraft and possibly current affairs. If this is passed it's onto OASC by Feb 06; all in all a pretty lengthy process.

If I am successful and obtain the sponsorship, and then go on pass OASC Pt 2; how much does this for count for a place on IOT?

One of the major questions that will be asked is: "Why do you want to join the RAF?" I need a solid answer for this and would appreciate some ideas on that one :O

Cheers :ok:

[Kim Il Jong]

Easy, change your application to pilot, there will be more than 8 spaces (I Guess) and the the answer will simply be:

To become an officer in the finest force yet created and a military aviator; my life's ambition.

Otherwise, another question will likely be WTF haven't you applied for pilot?

Seriously though, you need to blah on about being an officer and that you enjoy the organisational and leadership challenges that you are likely to be faced with. You will also be asked well you can get all that in the Army so why the RAF? Answers about muddy boots and slit trenches don't go down too well on this one. I know, it was my response! guess they saw the funny side though cos they let me in!!

[Cat5 in the Hat]

Don't recall a Part2 at OASC for 6th Form scholarship in my day.

It was interviews (nice gown) & medicals etc. Maybe I didn't get far enough...

[alexmac]

Easy, change your application to pilot, there will be more than 8 spaces (I Guess)

Can't fly due to heyfever :* and the number of pilot spots is lower than ATCO... I think ATCO have 8 and pilot have 5 so slightly higher chance of getting it with branch applying for,

Don't recall a Part2 at OASC for 6th Form scholarship in my day

From what we've been told its; AFCO interview, OASC Interview, Medical, Fitness and Aptitude and then when you apply for DE or Uni scholorship, part 2 of OASC selection with all of the team work stuff here's hoping :rolleyes:

[Role1a]

So why do you want to join the Airforce?

Why not give them that answer, instead of someone else’s.

Or is that how you pass GCSEs now days.

[alexmac]

Personally; having spent time on active stations the RAF lifestyle would suit me - working with colleagues during the day and then socialising with them as friends in the evenings, the Mess atmosphere, the sporting activities, the sense of being not only part of the team but by becoming an officer heading the team as and when required.

Overseas travel, the discipline and commitment gained from the experience; a variety of reasons but I thought you guys, who have been through such interviews would be able to provide some reasons that are different from 'the norm'

Or is that how you pass GCSEs now days.

Not at all; I passed my GCSEs by myself and I worked hard for them coming out with 3A*s, 5As and 3Bs :D

[Bob Viking]

Check you out.
My grades were nowhere near that good and they still let me in!
What little work I did was my own though!!
BV

[alexmac]

My choice of A-Levels worries me slightly - IT, Geography, Business & Maths :confused: Still pondering about going in as DE or Uni; P/O I was speaking to at Woodvale [best holding post going, honest :p ] went uni > pilot but there appears to be more DE's being taken on as opposed to uni grads.

We'll wait and see if I pass the AFCO interview first ;)

[bowly]

Doesn't matter what A levels you do. BTW, I ain't got none!!! Things have changed somewhat though. It's nice to be one of the least qualified pilots in the air force however! Just goes to show......

[Pierre Argh]

Personally; having spent time on active stations the RAF lifestyle would suit me - working with colleagues during the day and then socialising with them as friends in the evenings, the Mess atmosphere, the sporting activities, the sense of being not only part of the team but by becoming an officer heading the team as and when required. there, you've answered the question... which is after all what they're looking for?

[alexmac]

...which is after all what they're looking for?

I hope so - 2nd and 3rd opinions?

That was another potential problem - deciding FC or ATCO; noted you're an ATCO Pierre so may be biased but what do you think? Is the same level of expertise required for both or one more challenging than the other?

[SirToppamHat]

I will resist the temptation just to say FC, as would be expected given my background, but rather offer some general advice.

But first ... those who suggest you apply for Pilot may have something. I suspect most FCs and ATCs would have wanted to fly had it not been for medical limitations, but you should let OASC confirm this for you, rather than assume. However, be honest at all stages about what you want (officer first?), otherwise you will flounder when asked why you didn't just apply for the Branches you ARE med fit for.

Secondly, the choice between FC and ATC is a difficult one, especially if you haven't seen both. Talk to the AFCO and ask to arrange (RJP?) visits to CRC Boulmer, a flying station and LATCC Mil West Drayton, Swanwick Mil or ScATCC Mil Prestwick. Then make your own mind up.

All that said, I am not sure quite how much they can expect you to know at this stage, but if you have made an effort (even if unsuccessful) it will stand you in good stead in the longer term.

STH

[alexmac]

Thanks for the advice STH;

I've been in two active station ATC Towers; At Odiham with rotary and Leuchars FJ. I've also just arranged to visit Woodvale ATC, albeit civil run, still a tower of some descript.

but you should let OASC confirm this for you, rather than assume

Yes OASC Med board have confirmed I’m unfit for aircrew and can reapply in 09, by which time I hope to be settled into one of the two mentioned ground branches.

I have wanted to visit CRC but with it being a fair way I’ve not perused this much further. If I pass the initial stages I will certainly speak to them about CRC and Swanwick as they would both be of interest.

Away next week at Nesscliffe barracks with air cadets so I think i'll take some interview prep work with me and hope for the best

[DaveyBoy]

Role1A:
So why do you want to join the Airforce?

Why not give them that answer, instead of someone else’s.

Or is that how you pass GCSEs now days.

No, you pass GCSEs by knowing how to spell Air Force and when to use question marks instead of full stops, among other things. You join the RAF by giving the sort of answers alexmac took the time and effort to run by us, which is more than most candidates do. Don't be so harsh.


alexmac:
2nd and 3rd opinions?

Looks good to me. Also think about what you will say if you're asked typical AFCO/OASC questions such as:
- How would you feel about being required to fight in a war?
- Do you think you could kill someone?
- What do you think about homosexuals serving in the armed forces?
- What were the best and worst times in your life?
- What would you do if you caught someone taking drugs?
- What do you think it means to be an Officer?
and so on.

A copy of a Commissioning Scroll might be a good place to start for the last one; someone can probably reproduce one on here if you can't find one anywhere else.

Your language and manner on here seem to me to make a positive impression, so best of luck to you!

[stickmonkeytamer]

If you cannot even convince yourself of a solid reason to join, you will have no hope of convincing the Board at OASC- they can see right through you, as that is their job.

Honesty and Integrity play a large part in the Force lifestyle (sorry, Jedi moment there!!!)- if you need someone else to tell you why you want to join, you need to forget the entire selection process.

You must realise that it is not always a "fun" job and that you may want to consider what you want out of it, or go and find something else in civie street to do... Once you are in, you are in for a long time, unless you get shot, killed, injured or biff out and restreamed into another Branch that you don't like, but then still have to stay in until the end of your time in the Service.

Good luck whatever you do though!

SMT

[diginagain]

On the basis that I did OASC at pretty much the same stage in my life, may I offer my opinion?

From what I've read from the poster, he seems to know the reason why he wants to join, but is a little unsure about how express himself.

He's shown considerable initiative in coming onto this forum, and posed his questions in a way which hasn't raised the ire shown to some posters in the past.

Clearly, this young man deserves a future in whatever remains of the Royal Air Force (yes, once an ambition of mine) and I hope that he does well.

Good luck, alexmac. :ok:

[Pierre Argh]

...which is after all what they're looking for? I think you may have misinterpretted my original post? I meant they are looking for YOUR opinion... not a concensus from PPRuNe?

ATC/FC... again, you must make the choice on what you want to do (I don't want you blaming me when it goes TU?) Seriously, and trying not to be biased, I suggest it might help if you consider long term. Would you want to stay in the RAF for life (or have a non-aviation based second career) then the choice is entirely personal. But, otherwise ATC in Civvy street is the only option (not much call for FCs)... whereas if considering a career in the defence industry then FC might (?) open more a few more doors.

[diginagain]

whereas if considering a career in the defence industry then FC might (?) open more a few more doors.

That's always on the assumption that such a beast exists, a few years hence.

[Kim Il Jong]

Alexmac,

Why don't you just lie about the hayfever: every other aircrew mate in the airforce had to do that to get in?? Anyway I'm sure that the docs are much more lenient about that stuff these days.

Even if you can't lie or have medical records and stuff I still think you'd be nuts not to give it a go, you have NOTHING to lose. Just by applying it shows motivation. If they like you and the hayfever is an aircrew showstopper, they will give you plenty of chance to go for another branch. If you pass aircrew, i reckon you'd be in a much better position for a gnd branch than another who just went for gnd branches alone.

Don't f**k about go for pilot. You know it makes sense.:ok:

[alexmac]

Thanks for all of your replies - I do know why; there are a multitude of reasons it's just trying to consolidate these into one flowing piece; I have also practiced interview techniques with ATC staff which I think has helped.

Kim Il Jong:

I'll look into pilot but I think a place on the ground helping people like yourself fly would give me more satisfaction than actually flying the airframe :)

Pierre Argh:

Long Term yes I would like to stay in, and as you say with ATCO there is civvy street there should things not go quite to plan. With not being 'fit for aircrew' (yet) i'm not sure how interesting it would be in the likes of Boulmer compared to being on an active flying station :confused:

Thanks again
Alexmac :O

[SpotterFC]

i'm not sure how interesting it would be in the likes of Boulmer

Can I suggest you do as STH mentioned and get a Realistic Job Preview visit to either BL or Scampton (after Jan 06). RAF pays you know! You'll also be on the visit with a load of other people in exactly the same position as you, so you can discuss tactics and swap ideas - just don't all go to OASC at the same time!!!

Not going to get into the ATC/FC thing either, its up to you based on the impression the 2 Branches make on you (but be aware that ATC ain't all Towers - you need to visit LATCC, ScATCC or Swanwick to get the 'whole' ATC experience).

(extended item about QRA(I) featuring Boulmer on BBC News 24 Sat 2230/Sun 1530 if you want a quick look and missed the item earlier in the week)

[SirToppamHat]

Pierre Argh said

ATC in Civvy street is the only option (not much call for FCs)... whereas if considering a career in the defence industry then FC might (?)

If the implication is that the ATC Branch leads better into a career in Civvie ATC, then I am afraid that I must correct you Pierre.

There doesn't seem to be any significant preference with NATS for ex-RAF ATCOs against FCs. I know quite a few that have gone straight from FC to Civ ATCO Trg (even one Identification Officer). What NATS are (apparently) looking for is relevant radar experience, and they also allow you to apply much later (ie well beyond the normal upper age limit) in exactly the same way as the ATC guys do.

Feel free to go and ask on the ATC Forum if you seek confirmation.

SpotterFC is quite correct regarding RJP visits by the way; accommodation and food is paid for by the RAF and they will even give you a free rail warrant.

Boulmer and Scampton are both active flying stations and I suspect that (as you haven't yet joined) you will be one of those who may well get to work as GCI alongside the sqns, which I believe to be a long-term aspiration of our Lords and Masters. By the way, the idea of living and working on a fighter station may be attractive now, but try getting excited about a 4-ship stream take-off when you've just finished a second QRA Night Shift and desperately need some sleep!

From a Service perspective, better quality of life at Boulmer I suspect than at LATCC!

COME AND SEE FOR YOURSELF (but please don't steal the Notice Board from the Mess)!

STH

[Wyler]

Being at Boulmer, not that interesting at all. However, after a relatively short space of time (18 months) you will move on to either 1ACC, E3D, 16 Air Assault Brigade or a number of other demanding/Joint/OOA jobs.
Yes, a busy FJ base would be good as ATC bit there ain't a lot else to look forward to (apart from area radar), especially if you want to be involved in the war fighting side of the RAF. Agree that you could then move on to the civil side but if ATC is all you want, then bypass the RAF and go straight to the CAA.
You need to visit the CRC and, having done so, take the long view.
Good luck.