Jpa - The Way Forward

[Phoney Tony]

Sorry if this thread has beeen covered elsewhere.

I have recently been briefed on JPA.

We were told the software does not work.

The system goes live in Apr 06.

Admin Wg is being run down by Mar 06.

Can any admin dudes reassure me that things are really not that bad.

[Pontius Navigator]

Tony, no, they are worse.

JPA has not yet been rolled out let alone going live in April. That might be a target but then so as April the target for MFMIS.

Can't remember which April that was though.

[badger baiter]

But that doesnt matter 20% of administration jobs within the RAF were saved. How many were officer posts I wonder. When do we start to get rid of the big brass to fund some of our repairs to aircraft and buildings. JPA will be a shambles and I for one believe I will never be finished talking to Glasgow about my wage...Christ Adminers balls it up now what hhope does a computer program (based on administraiters inputs have). Just give me my entitlements please!!!!

[MechGov]

I've just heard that, under the new JPA system, allowances will be paid, with, receipts required, upto a maximun amount. The AT fleet will recognise this as "capped actuals". In short, if you don't spend it you can't have it, if you spend over you won't get it.
Bugger.

[Phoney Tony]

How do you know what the rates are?

I suspect you get an idea from the experts in SHQ.

Bugger............ they are all sacked.

Seriously this is my biggest worry. Without support from the 'Experts' whom do we turn to for advice/ guidance on what we are entitled to claim? I suspect the answer will be to look at some AP. Having done this in the past I have found that APs were open to interpritation and or subjected to some change hidden away in a DCI or pamphlet, which was not widely distributed.

A real trap for the inocent mistake.

[Data-Lynx]

One of our three services is alert for volunteers to form JPA Intermediate Change Teams. These 3 person teams will support each unit so that it is fully prepared and has undertaken the necessary business change processes to ensure a successful implementation. (hope their training includes a decode for that last statement). Apparently, each 'lert' needs recent theatre experience, good IT skills, a driving licence and must still have 3 years left to serve.
More interesting for a Personnel Administration system which may replace 200+ different systems and is predicated on benefits, there is a footnote. There is no change to manpower requirements during the JPA transition period. Backfilling those posts vacated by personnel selected for the teams will be assessed for manning priority by XXXX, taking account of resources required elsewhere. Unfortunately, it cannot be guaranteed that a relief will be provided in every case.
More bricks anyone and go easy on the straw.
D-L

[teeteringhead]

Well if it helps burst the Admin bubble a bit sooner, so be it ....

Was briefed by a previous AMP (about 3 ago) that Cisco, the computer firm, who employed 25 000 people world wide, had .... err 6 (six) people doing the allowances for the whole shebang.

Yes, they said, there probably was some fraud, but not as much as we are saving .... and the military would clearly be content to spend £20 k on an airman to occasionally prevent the odd £20 fraud.

With my "desert lots" location, I've learnt to (had to) run my personal finances (bank, credit cards, 'phone bills, insurance etc etc) on-line, so why does a 1771 need a grotty piece of paper to go through about 5 pairs of hands to pay a coupla quid?? (or less, a bloke who worked for me once used to put in a 10p claim whenever he used his 'phone for callout cascade calls! - Good for him, I happily countersigned .......)

[Pontius Navigator]

On fraud, an airman at Wittering was courtmartialled for a false leave travel claim.

As he reached the end of his leave year he realised he had two warrants left. He then claimed two return journeys over one weekend.

His downfall is that he was seen by an RAFP at the airmans' bash on Saturday night

And the meat of to offence?

He had claimed for the two return journeys to Birmingham!

Forgoodness sake he could have done the two journeys as day trips. I think he was done as he probably admitted the offences. But the cost of the courtsmartial compared with the claims? And to cost of the court staying in the George at Stamford?

OK, rules have changed but it just proves how we spend to prove regardless of cost.

[Talking Radalt]

Got a mate who works for a HUGE international IT company (Gimme an "I".......Gimme a "B"........ etc) and they actively allow "a bit on the side" (see note 1) of any claim on the understanding that:
a) It will happen whatever system you use to administer allowances.
b) It's cheaper in the long run to keep it all in the open and budget accordingly rather than spend endless pots of cash trying to plug an unquantified leak.
c) The employess see it as a perk and actually like it (no surprise there then) as it makes them feel like trusted employees and not chest-poked inmates, and after an initial chocolate-factory "Whey Hey!" moment it all calms down anyway.
d) The @r$e isn't kicked out of it

Note 1: The "bit on the side" refers to financial matters only. Marital indiscretion is outside the bounds of this system of accounting.

[Zoom]

JPA..... JPA......

Joint Patrol Aircraft?

Junior Pensions Administration?

Jessies' Personal Artifacts?

Jersey Prison Authority?

Julian P*kes Adrian?

OK, I give in. Clue me in, someone.

[Talking Radalt]

Joint Personnel Administration

or is it "Personal"? Can't remember.
Either way, adminners will cease to exist (sort of) as of April next year, to be replaced by some super-dooper on-line tick-the-box system which tots up all you're owed, submits your leave passes etc....then crashes.
For example, as the system isn't "live" yet, at present no leave passes can be processed for beyond April next year which might be ok to those in high places where they're their own boss, but for those of us being tasked a year in advance it kinda counts. Winner.

JPA....Just Press "Abort"

[Red Line Entry]

Talking Radalt,

I fully believe you about big Blue and the like, but what industry do isn't necessarily right for us. Fine, financially, it may make sense to accept "a bit on the side" - but as far as I'm concerned, we work in an organisation that exists on trust. Trust that our mates will look out for us, trust that the orders that send us into danger are the right ones and trust in the "team" as a whole.

Fraud ('cos that's what it is, not a "perk"), erodes that trust - so I don't give a monkey's what the financial experts say - if you're a cheat then you don't deserve to wear the Queen's uniform; and if it costs money to weed these people out, then it's money bl**dy well spent.

However, I share the concerns about the honest mistake, I rarely put a claim in without getting an admin bod to give me the thumbs up - dunno what I'll do when there's no-one left!

[Spotting Bad Guys]

My US colleagues have a system similar to JPA called "myPay" where claims can be submitted online, personal details changed etc etc - all sounds very feasible, especially when you consider that they have an all-encompassing comms backbone to support it.
However, it all falls down due to the absence of admin expertise in the chain, and the expectaion that not only are we all good at our primary tasks, we can know the approriate APs inside out. You invariably have to waste time re-submitting rejected or incorrect claims, chasing up missing paperwork and so on. More often than not, the only way a solution can be found is to down tools, make your way to the Base Finance building and sort it all out face-to-face.

Progress? Hmmmm.....

The main problem I have with the system is that it will remove the burden of admin from the pers admin personnel - thereby allowing 'cost-saving' measures i.e. cuts to to be made - but with increase the admin load on the rest of us. If the average aircew mate or techie has to spend say, an extra 30 minutes per day with his admin, surely that is more expensive than employing a pers admin SAC to look after everybody's?

SBG

P.S. To align the RAF with the other services, dependants' ID cards are to be taken away under JPA.

[Talking Radalt]

Fraud ('cos that's what it is, not a "perk"), erodes that trust .
Ah and THAT cuts both ways. How often does the Air Force benefit from people not bothering to claim for insignificant amounts, or fail to adequately recompense them for the real personal financial cost of what we do? Can I claim for all the stuff stacked in my garage that I've had to go and buy in order to live, thrive and survive on behalf on Tony and HMQ? Oh no, that's right, that's not corporate "fraud" by saving on the real cost of running an air force, is it?
(And spare me the cr@p about it all being available through stores)
If you like we can start on about the urban myth regarding Home to Duty (or whatever it's called) at Death Banana HQ being calculated to arrive at a closed crash gate thus saving four miles off the bill. Anyone get a refund when the error was discovered? :hmm:

[Yeller_Gait]

Speaking with a WO/FS PSF type person recently, he assured me that there is going to be a call centre set up that will assist us with our JPA, ........ all well and good so far

However, he also went on to say that although the call centre will initially be in Glasgow, he suggested that it may end up being in Delhi, Bombay or whatever. I really do not know if he was joking or not, but worryingly, I think he was being serious.

Y_G

[Pontius Navigator]

For economy the MOD civil service has gone the same route as JPA but in the opposite direction.

Their system is pretty COTS. Date entry is in the US format! The menu system is pants and the system consistency isn't. On one menu forms are listed by name and on another by form number and name. Only catch is that the name for the same form is different on the two menus.

Everyone knows they need a 1771 but what exactly is the name of the form? Not an approximation but exact!

[Roland Pulfrew]

And of course you will all be aware that you will have to retain receipts for all of the claims that you submit for a minimum of 12 months. There will still be a fraud check (10% of all claims IIRC) and if you cannot produce the receipts then I guess the Feds will come-a-knocking!

LOA will cease and you will only be paid for what you eat, up to a capped maximum, at each location - don't forget to keep the receipts - so no more beer tokens! And as you pay in advance and claim back what will this do for the quality of food people choose to eat. McBurger Fried Chicken anyone?

And of course the whole system relies upon everyone, from lowliest grunt to CDS being computer literate and having access to a computer system. How much money will be saved because it is TFD to bother claiming? Or is that what they are hoping for in this masterstroke of progress?!?!?!

[rej]

Going back to what teeteringhead said about the telephone-call claim, maybe once JPA is on line , that is exactly what we all should all do. Claim for the trivial things that previously we have not been ar$ed to do due to the nause of having to track down a 1771, then fill it out, get it countersigned and wait six weeks for it to get processed.

People make honest mistakes (and some not-so-honest ones!) when filling out forms and clicking away on a keyboard. Are we (the Services) going to end up swamped with multiple disciplinary actions once there is no longer the human element to say 'wait a minute ...' or will we end up with even less coffers in the budget as people fiddle more claims due to the reduced chance of getting rumbled with the absence of the human element.

[Talking Radalt]

Are we going to end up swamped with multiple disciplinary actions once there is no longer the human element to say 'wait a minute ...'


Categorically "Yes".
This is precisely what's happened with speed/safety/law enforcement cameras.

[tonkatechie]

Fraud ('cos that's what it is, not a "perk"), erodes that trust .
Not getting 'rankist' (sorry for making up words) but would this also include arranging 'training flights' that require the carriage of stores in baggage pods, much shaped and weighted like a set of golf-clubs? Or perhaps an ammo bay filled with bags of mess dress ("Mind the shoes Bloggs", "Whoops Sir, I've swapped one for a chock")?
I'm not suggesting any of this thing goes on:eek: but people in glass houses.....get off the high horse...etc etc. Just as long as you don't kick the :mad: out of it, that's all.