CFT: why do we bother?

[raytofclimb]

Why, in this age of overstrech, over-tasking, under-funding, lack of spares and morale do we flog ourselves to death to achieve some arb number of flying hours unrelated to useful training?

Not sure about the other fleets but a certain FJ fleet seems obsessed with hours in the bag to meet 'CFT' rather than valuable training.

Dictats from on high such as 'you are to get X hours per sortie' do little to encourage pilots to train as we would fight.

Then, JPs are sent off in any spare serviceable jugged-up jet to bore (long, straight) holes in the sky, (often at night) so the low fuel burn racks up the hours and helps to lower the fuel burn rate. This is a savage waste of 9 TONNES of fuel (per aircraft) which would run a car for a year or more. (some avtur burning diesel type obvioulsy)

Also, crews 'sharp pencilling' hours means the jets are getting over serviced in the long term because the extra 5, 10, 15, mins in the auth sheets that you didn't actually fly will all add up.

But if we meet CFT then it's all ok, right?

Does this happen on any other types?

Oh, then I found out yesterday that if the battery in your watch runs out, the watch is scrapped because it would cost too much to have a contractor service and return them. What? Who sanctioned that crap? One single saving of a 9 ton fuel load would cover that cost I'm sure, and buy some flying clothing that is currently 'on demand'

Rant over.

Ray

[southside]

well who is it that plans your sorties? Who dictates what you do? why don't you plan something more interesting? why is morale low? Whose responsibility is your morale? Is the Boss responsible for your low morale? or is the staish responsible? or do you think it could be YOU (big finger pointing) ????
Why don't you plan an exciting exercise? get involved in something a bit more interesting?

[JNo]

The watches have recently been changed to some in which the battery can be changed, the procurement originally didn't state that it needed to be changed (a balls up by the DPA probabaly). So the wise company that supplied them didn't put it in so they could supply more!

As for the flying, doesn't sound like anything new to me........

[bowly]

Southside,

This is the second post where YOU have mentioned morale, its causes and where YOU believe its problems lie. YOU have no idea what can and can't be done on a FJ Sqn or what is and isn't allowed. Boosting morale is not as easy as YOU think.

[Pontius Navigator]

Yonks ago we were running with 5 crews on a sqn established for 6. You guessed it, we had to do 6/5th of the stats. As some stats were 2 or 3 off we were actually doing 50% extra in somethings.

It would have been more sensible to give us more rest, as we were running a fatigue deficit, or more interesting trips. Problem there was that landaways cost too much.

Boo Boom. Scrub one sortie, save the avgas, and pay for landaways.

[Yeller_Gait]

Pontius,

You really must stop applying logic to the situation.

Fuel and T&S are completely different budgets, the fact that all the money eventually comes out of the MOD budget is neither here nor there. What is annoying is that the adminers will penny pinch on one hand, yet we can throw away fuel as described above, and nobody really cares.

I am with you, scrap one (stats bashing) sortie and we can all go away on a decent overseas det, and perhaps get some better training than we do on a daily basis in UK. Just look at the 8 flypro for next week and you will see what I mean :*

[CBA_caption]

Ray,

Hope you're keeping well, mate.

You won't be suprised to hear it's the same story on the slighter darker, slightly shorter version of your fleet. If the accountants get wind that we can fly for ages a ML using thimble fulls of Avtur at a time, we're all in trouble.

Come to think of it. Why don't we just get jobs doing that anyway. PSF have the forms, it's not like we've got an FRI coming in a couple of years time!

CBA

[The Rocket]

Boo Boom. Scrub one sortie, save the avgas, and pay for landaways.

Blimey!! Just how long ago was this Pontius:p

Save the Avgas!!!:p

Quite right I suppose, There was a war on;)

Ray,

Agree completely, and I'll wager that the same conversation is happening on every FJ squadron in the UK:ugh:

[southside]

Boosting morale is not as easy as YOU think.

Of Course it is you moron. Just get of your fat backside and do something about it.











OR you can mope around the crewroom with your fat belly hanging out of your growbag, moaning about this and that and ther other, mank mank mank....oh woa is me....morale is low and its not my fault, nobody likes me cos im a miserable git who festers discontent and disloyalty and my life is worthless...oh woa is me....sob sob sob....



If you want to improve morale then go and see an Officer. The Officer will have the leadership sklls to make your life better.

[Safety_Helmut]

If you want to improve morale then go and see an Officer. The Officer will have the leadership sklls to make your life better.
Absolutely f@ckin' classic.

I fear your credibility will be taking a nosedive south side ?

Safety_Helmut

[Maple 01]

southside
You might want to tell us a little about yourself before decrying everyone that doesn't see life in HM's flying club as a bed of roses....most of the guys who have rightly identified morale problems are commissioned aircrew - Us 'guins (ex in my case) have respect for those blokes (not that you'd catch me admitting it when I was in) and I believe they should be listened to, rather than dismissed with the old platitudes

I can see you’ve been to the Lord Melchett school of HR:

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through

Blackadder : Tell me do you ever stop bullying and shouting at the lower orders?
Wellington : NEVER! There's only one way to win a campaign shout, shout and shout again.
Blackadder : You don't think that inspired leadership and tactical ability have anything to do with it?
Wellington : NO! It's all down to shouting. WAAGGHH!

[raytofclimb]

aahhhh, southside, suddenly it all becomes clear.

Which ranks in the RAF actually do the flying?

I'll give you a hint: all pilots are officers.

Got it?

Your comment about going and organising an "exciting exercise" is ignorant and offensive. If I was allowed off the sqn to do such a bygone jolly, now the domain of remf blunties (of which I suspect you are one), then that is what I'd love to do.

Unfortunately, the sqn can't afford to spare a pilot. After QRA, leave, courses, sickness etc the sqn can't meet its commitments to other "exciting exercises" (that grown up officers organise) such as JMC, NEWTP, Wycombe Warrior, OPEVAL, CQWI etc

If you were better informed, you'd realise we (the UK) are about to lose a whole fighter sqn in literally a couple of weeks. Thats a quarter of our fighter sqns. A QUARTER. There will only be one at Leeming and two at Leuchars to cover Northern QRA, Southern QRA (from a deployed base) and the Falklands ON TOP OF any other committments we are tasked with such as the exciting exercises mentioned above.

Go figure why morale is bad. You cant fix it with a hike in north wales or a weekend sailing out of Gosport.

Ray

[bowly]

Southside,

Quote "Just get of your fat backside and do something about it"

And how, pray tell, am I supposed to do that when my (peachy!) arse is strapped to an ejection seat for 7.5 hours (9 from strap-in to climb out) every day whilst flying monotonous sorties in the Middle East (morale is sky high there you know, especially in the army. They are having a wonderful time.........).

Oh, and if I had the time to mope around in the crewroom, I can assure you that morale would soar! I haven't seen page 3 for months.

Ignorance and a sub-normal intelligence can be tolerated on this site. Your rudeness however, should not. I promise not to rise to any further posts from you....

[southside]

No youre not. You may wear stripes but your not Officers. Officers lead. They display qualities like courage, integrity and honesty.
Officers will be expected to make decisions. Even when they are wet, cold and tired they must have the qualities to shine above their contemporaries. They must be involved in all aspects of their subordinates work. They must help them, guide them and support them for these are the men that will follow him.

You are warriors. You will be expected to lead your men into danger, you will not shirk from that danger nor will you turn your back on your team when they pressure becomes unbearable. They will look to you for guidance. they expect the very best of qualities from you. They expect you to be the Officer.

So, how are you going to improve your morale? Shall I sit and fester in the crewroom...or shall I do something?

Lets plan an exped....come on, lets grab a minibus and a bunch of lads and set off for a weekend in the mountains. Is that a bit too energetic? Sorry, well how about a game of footie in the gym.? Come on you lot- empty the crewroom and lets all go down the gym for an hour. Havent got the time? too busy? But youre the Officer. So plan it into the days programme.

Heres a good one I did last year. Flick through the MOD directory andf find a department or Squadron that you know bugger all about. Give them a ring and ask if you can arange a visit. Last year my lot ended up in a trench on Salisbury plain firing big loud guns....fantastic fun. and the result - Instant morale boost.

So come on guys, stop moaning and manking and do something Officer like. Take Charge.

[Maple 01]

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

southside, The voice of the CCF!

Tell me that kind of 'over the top boys' leadership went out in 1916

Let's examine your 'boy's own adventure' example
Lets plan an exped....come on, lets grab a minibus and a bunch of lads and set off for a weekend in the mountains.

1. No budget
2. Your 1001 has been rejected
3. Your 'bunch of lads' are in Basra/Kandahar/HMP Stanley/on guard/FISP'd/on shift/stand-by for Frseco/Killing cows for her Maj/OO/Board of inquiry/on a course
4. You haven't got a qualified exped leader because (see 3)
5. The guys would quite like to see their wives/husbands/boy or girlfriends in between saving the world

It's called the real world - there is no slack, we just do the best we can with what's available. Your style of ‘leadership’ would be as welcome as a cup of cold sick by RAF regulars - might work on 19 year old squadies though........

[Time Bandit]

Southside, please give us an indication of what your authority or experience is to comment so bluntly on such matters? The modern military is a pretty sad little shadow of what it once was, but it is full of extremely committed Officers and Men who stick at it to try to make it as best as it can be, and it ain't no holiday camp for these poor sods. I have a small amount of experience and very little authority to speak on such matters so I generally keep my gob glued shut.

[SmilingKnifed]

Southside,

In addition to leading (or acting as a growbag clad Butlin's Redcoat by your definition) and achieving operational tasking, the vast majority of Officers are also required to spell and punctuate. In the interests of credibility, you may wish to do the same.

[mystic_meg]

...."and don't forget to tune in next week everyone to see Southside pulling rabbits out of a hat."

Also in next week's thrilling instalment:

Turning water into wine - "QED," says Southside

Leading by example, aka "we're all off to the pub, and I'm buying the beer," says Southside (yeah, right...)

Vision correction made easy - "try these rose-tinted specs," says Southside

etc. etc.

(was Billy Smart flush on clowns when you joined up?)

:mad:

[The Gorilla]

I believe that Southside may once have posted on this forum under the name of Admin Guru!

:*

[southside]

Well, thats the difference. At BRNC we are taught to lead our men, not follow on sheepishly behind them. We are taught to fight and fight hard. We are taught to produce solutions not problems....
we are taught not to mank....

moan, moan moan....we have no budget, we have no exped leader sob sob sob....


At Cranwell you are taught to wash your hands after using the bathroom. At BRNC we are taught not to pi$$ on our hands in the first place.

[RubiC Cube]

I refer to one of Southside's posts another thread. He only works the core working week plus whatever else HE fancies. The only time I've been able to manage that was working for the RN as well. Reality on the frontline is quite different and has always been so.

Back in the 70s we spent 9 hours drilling holes over the oggin with no hope of finding a submarine because our Lords and Masters deliberatley put us in areas where there were none. Why, because they didn't want the enemy to know how good we were at tracking them! Catch 22, no live time, not knowing how good you could be, pi$$ed off because you knew you were wasting your time.

[southside]

moan, moan, moan......

mank, mank, mank.....




sob, sob, sob....


I'm sorry girls but youre moaning is falling on deaf ears. Get off your fat ar$es and do something about it....

"oh, we can't cos we have no budget...sob, sob sob...."

[Twonston Pickle]

It would be interesting to know Southside's operational experience...? He seems so reluctant to say what he actually does but is more than keen to tell us all what we should be doing.

Shockingly enough, I do agree with him that it is the responsiblity of all officers/SNCO etc to keep up morale. However, what happens when the good will and morale of said officers and SNCOs is stretched to breaking point? That, Southside, is the point that all are trying to make. Your promises to improve things for your troops/guys/gals etc only go so far towards filling the morale void. Once our politcal masters withdraw funding/fail to provide equipment and start to try our men and officers for alleged illeagal acts conducting their dubious conflict etc etc.

Yes Southside, it is more whinging but my generosity and that of others only stretches so far. I will give my loyalty and, if necessary, my life for the greater good of this nation but I expect, nay demand, that I and my family are looked after by the political masters who demand our obedience and sacrifice at their whim.

I, personally, endeavour to achieve what you suggest; the maintenence of morale and welfare amongst my Sqn/Flights/sections etc. My questions to you are these: for how long should I continue this endeavour in the face of a downward spiral; where is our break from continuous operations; what do I do when the troops no longer believe my rather worthless "chin up, we are looking into resolving that issue" comments; and finally: when, oh when, are you coming back to planet Earth?

[raytofclimb]

southside's flexi time obviously allows him/her plenty of time to browse the net and post on an aircrew forum on a school day. Must have been doing 10-4s all week to allow a friday off.

[BEagle]

"At BRNC we are taught not to pi$$ on our hands in the first place."

Presumably because you have a sailor to hold it for you.....

[Speedy Brace]

obviously your talents are wasted "southside",
Instead of wasting time on sailsbury plain, could you pop over to supply and magic some spares there's a good chap...

Instant morale boost if you achieve the impossible

1 Techies get spares
2 They produce servicable assets
3 Those that fly can fly

Easy really you should have no difficulty with that little task........

[The Rocket]

Speedy Brace,

Why didn't you come and see me:cool:

Or any of the other Officers on this forum? We'd have had that little problem sorted in no time:rolleyes:

Southside,

You also seem to have inherited the extra special gift of the ability to completely alienate yourself from everybody in two sentences, at BRNC.

Well Done:ugh:

Perhaps all 'your troops' only follow you out of curiosity?:E