Photo Licence

[Trav737-400]

Hi, I am applying for my photo licence and police check as I currently hold a PPL . Anyway I just want to confirm whether I have to pay any fees for this as I cannot find any reference to actual fees on the application or the CASA website. Thanks

[NZLeardriver]

From the CASA website:

Update 28 September 2005

Currently there are no fees for the aviation security check or the issue of the photographic licence and Aviation Identification.

[dude65]

Currently no charge as NZL has stated.

I wouldn't be holding my breath on anything coming back before Christmas. Mine is 7 weeks and counting. I rang them 2 weeks ago and was told the hold up isn't with CASA but with the AFP. Apparently up to 5000 applications currently in the system.

[nascar3]

I have heard that CASA will start charging for photo licences after 1 January 2006

Another issue I heard other day is that the agencies doing the security check i.e. AFP, ASIO and immigration are too busy doing checks for the Commonwealth Games and pilot licences will take second place.

[triadic]

Got mine this week..... applied in Feb !! :confused:

[john_tullamarine]

... and isn't it a scrappy bit of kit .. one would think that they could produce something a bit classier ...

[DeltaT]

Are you guys sure about all this?
I telephone CASA only about 2 weeks ago and they said its usually all done in 3-4 weeks.

[dude65]

DeltaT

Yep, I'm pretty sure this is how it's turning out for most people.

When I took mine into the local CASA office I was told 3-4 weeks. That was 7 plus weeks ago. I was also told that new licences were being done ahead of existing ones. If your an existing PPL holder your application goes to the bottom of the pile.

Doesn't look like the AFP were ready for this.

[contactdepartures]

dude65 - weren't casa upgrading their systems during september and didn't want any applications of any sort sent in? so they've probably been slammed in the first few weeks of october with over 1 1/2 months worth of paperwork to process and it is taking them a while to get through everything.....

[triadic]

John t. Agreed. looks photocopied to me and they have changed the fonts size and formatting. Even the stamp on the 1st page is part of the photocopy. No orig signiture or stamp... very poor

They must have changed the way endorsements are shown, as all mine have been changed and resequenced. Now have a manual prop not a CSU ??

Thats what you get with mass production I guess...!!
:( :(

[dude65]

CD

Didn't hear anything about CASA not accepting applications when I lodged mine in early September. With a 31 December deadline it's going to get worse before it gets any better.

I guess you can either jump up and down about it or just wait your turn. At the moment I'm happy to wait my turn. I do know of a couple of blokes who think they're a cut above the rest of us and are behaving accordingly. Unfortunate, abusing the people who are processing these licences doesn't acheive a bloody thing.

[Capt EFIS]

Even without all the background checks they mentioned that it could take up to 3-4 months before you receive the photo licence.

[the wizard of auz]

I guess I'll just have to trundle about the sky without one until they show up. buggered if I'm going to give up work to make it convinient for their knee jerk reaction rule change. :rolleyes:

[pall]

The really frustrating part is that my PHOTO LICENCE means nothing when it comes to flying in to a number of security listed airports. At such airports I must pay big bucks for an ASIC card over and above my PHOTO LICENCE. This is despite the fact that I have alalready been fully security and identity checked to get my current PHOTO LICENCE!!

[virgindriver]

I still haven't got mine and I applied dec last year!

[the wizard of auz]

And lets face it. Is it going to stop one single potential terrorist?. I doubt it. I wanna know why after thirteen years of flying with a valid licence, I suddenly have to have a security and identification check?. I could be a sleeper agent or something, just waiting to slam my 172 or 310 into ........well, into,............ sh1t.........theres nothing out here to hit. I know, i'll fly into the big smoke and................well, actually, theres nothing there I could worry much either. Now a roadtrain of fuel or a roadtrain of explosive stuff that I have access to quite readily, without any form of security drama.......well........I doubt I could do alot thats going to change the world with that either.
Wake up you pollies!!!!. theres bugger all over in this part of the world that is going to be earth shattering by being blown up or crashed into. none of the bad guys could give a fat rats crack about most of australia, and those that may have a desire to crash and burn stuff will find a way despite all the crap your forcing the decent law abiding (well, until now) folk to go through, as well as stumbeling onto a nice little earner.
I think the aviaton community has a lot to answer for, for not standing up and saying something about these totally ineffectual, unnecessary, knee jerk reaction rules, before they became laws.

[CHAIRMAN]

I complained to Warren Truss and received a typical nonsensical reply that they are looking into the problem and may have a resolution shortly.
Quote -'The background checking for an ASIC is more rigorous than that required to obtain a photographic pilot licence' !!!!
Those damn pilots can stay on the airside of the fence without an ASIC, because they won't be trusted to get back on the tarmac with just a photo pilot's licence. Oh no indeed.
Typical bureaucratic sense.

[dude65]

And this from CASA's website

"After 31 December 2005, if you want to operate an aircraft in Australian Territory and you need to hold a licence issued by CASA you must have a current aviation security check status. That means you must undergo an aviation security status check or hold a current ASIC".

It's not hard to tell what's going to happen next.

It'll be backflips at 20 paces by the government or else some pilots won't be able to work after Dec 31. All this so the government can make sure the hot dog vendors at the Commonwealth Games aren't a security risk.

[heat]

Mine took 6 months don't bother calling it will arrive!

[airway_manual]

I have got the photo portion back, but I'm still waiting for the ATPL which I applied for at the same time.....I agree with a previous post "not very professional".

[Trav737-400]

Hi, I sent my application in mid October for the photo licence and aviation security status check, with the understanding that it was free of charge. Today i received a CASA application form for the same check stating that it now costs $145 for the same check (AVID). I am going to have to re-apply and pay?. Anyone else in the same boat?.

Regards Trav737-400

[dude65]

Yep

Sent mine in early September and received the new forms today.
No luck yet in getting through to the licencing section at CASA.

I think it could be a very big boat

[Ultralights]

dont worry, your not alone, im there, filled out those bloody forms 3 times, still no licence! aparently my information was "missplaced"

[Lasiorhinus]

Applied early February, recieved licence mid October.

If they send you something asking for money after your original application, throw that straight in the bin. They cant retrospectively charge for something that was free when you entered into your contract with them.... but that doesnt mean they wont try, because some people will pay.

[dude65]

Did anyone get through to CASA today and find out whether or not these forms need to be resubmitted?

[kiki]

rang CASA yesterday askin them what the cut off was for free licences she said 1st nov, then she said if i hold an ASIC there was no need for a photo licence, what the


F*** the photo licence off, i say

[farrari]

I sent my application for photo licence in around september on form showing NO FEES> I spoke to them today and since I have already sent mine in, NO FEES are due, and I do not have to re send forms. I asked them to re check this with someone else and they got the same answer,so If you have already sent in forms then no fees payable for 2 years and no redoing forms for 2 years.

[Trav737-400]

Well thats a relief:)

[kev_laline]

I have a flight crew license with my photo on it.

I have an Aviation Identity card, AVID, also with my photo on it, and it's waterproof.

Both of these took several months to acquire, after the appropriate info was supplied, including a police clearance.

CASA has just informed me that I now require an

AVIATION SECURITY IDENTIFICATION CARD ASIC

and they are sending an info pack to 35000 other pilots.

There is no security check required for the ASIC, because they checked when they gave me the AVID.

The fee for the ASIC is $95, but would have been $145 if the security check had been required.

It is an offence to not display the ASIC whilst in a SECURE AREA.

A person may be fined up to $550 every time they fail to display a valid ASIC.

We have to have an ASIC by 31 Dec 2005.

[Howard Hughes]

Is it just me, or is the new form totally ambiguous, with no clear direction of what is required? Especially for people with professional licences and an ASIC!!

I still had the old form 639 and sent that off!! I sent it registered mail, so I have proof that they received it. I can just see it now "sorry Mr hughes we seem to have lost your details, you won't be able to fly on New Years Day!" "Oh good, well then I'll just have to have a big sleep in instead".....

I pity those people who have grey/standby days on 1st January 2006.

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

[farrari]

Kev_laline, Asic card is
only required for those who go into airports listed as Secuurity Controlled Airports with RPT, such as Albury or Bathurst. If you fly into say Bankstown or Wollongong you do not need an Asic only Photo and Avid. The whole thing is bull#hit and just an other waste of our time and money to feather their nests. All this constant change has destoyed GA in Australia, what a WANK

[185skywagon]

farrari
check your ERSA. Bankstown and Archerfield are security controlled airports. Wollongong probably is too, if it has a Qantas link service.
cheers,
185.

[JetRacer]

Spoke to a lady at CASA Flight crew Licenceing section today, she said ......

Photo Licences are NOT compulsory.

All you need to have if accessing a security controlled airport is an ASIC.

It is the ASIC which is required after 31 December not a photographic licence.

The fees she said were for the issuing of the ASIC and the background checks required, no fees for a photo licence.

Hope this helps, as that package CASA sent out f#$%@*& confused me!


JetRacer

[impulse coupled]

Guys

Facts help, not opinions.

You can find out if your airport is security controlled here:

http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/aviation/prescribed_airport_operators.aspx

Bankstown does NOT require an ASIC.

More info on

www.aopa.com.au

[185skywagon]

impulse coupled
i think you'll find that means that Bankstown will not be issuing ASICS.
however, i stand to be corrected.
185

[parkland]

Just checked Bankstown - it is security controlled. Therefore you need an ASIC.

Are people still having problems getting through to CASA on the telephone?

I mean 1300 737 032, not the wrong number they sent out. Is ther any explanation of how they will get through thousands of ASIC applcations between now and Christmas?

[kev_laline]

CASA sent me an ASIC Q & A sheet

It lists 39 NSW airports including Norfolk & Lord Howe, which are Security Controlled Airports with RPT ops.

It also lists

Bankstown
Belmont
Glen Innes

as Security Controlled without RPT ops


"CASA is an issuing body for the purpose of issuing ASICs to pilots"

so you can probably get an ASIC at Bankstown

[UnderneathTheRadar]

Jetracer

Please don't believe a word you were told by CASA - either you or they have it the wrong way around.

By 1 January - you MUST have an AVID. The process for applying for this means that you will also be issued with a Photo ID - so I guess she was technically correct but only very technically. If you had a photo id from before March 05 then you won't have an AVID.

By 1 January - you MUST have and DISPLAY an ASIC if you are airside at a SECURITY CONTROLLED AERODROME.

The AVID process includes a police check but not an immigration status check. The issuing of a AVID will also include giving you a photo license.

If you then decide you need an ASIC, you then need both a police check and an immigration check. However, CASA are offering an exemption from the police check if you have an AVID completed after March 2005. It is in this scenario only that you get the $95 ASIC (because apparently it costs this much to print a plastic card and check that you're a legal resident).

Therefore, if you haven't done anything else yet - you must decide if you want an AVID or an ASIC and apply for one pronto.

HTH.


Impulse coupled - before lecturing on facts - make sure you read your reference material before presenting inaccuracies as facts! Every airport on the DOTARS page need an ASIC - the yes/no column tells you if the airport operator can/will issue one.

[parkland]

UnderneathTheRadar

What you say is right but please note you dont' have to have BOTH an ASIC and an AVID.

Chose which one you need. If you ever visit a security controlled aerodrome you must have an ASIC by Dec 31. If you NEVER visit a security controlled aerodrome an AVID will sufice.

Either way everyone is supposed to be secutity checked by Dec 31. What I find hard to believe is that CASA, the AFP and ASIO can actually do this in the time available.

[farrari]

You only need an Asic if you " access a secure area of a security controlled airport that has RPT operations" BK does not and Wol is not shown on their sheet, which they sent us, however this means you can fly into say Bathurst which is on the list, with out an Asic,as long as you do not go in areas as outlined in the sheet sent to us under the heading of "What is a secure area of a security controled airport" What A F WANK. What is the definition of the Movement Area.?

[Lasiorhinus]

From http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/licence/index.htm :
If you operate an aircraft in Australian Territory after 31 December 2005 and you need to hold a licence issued by CASA, you must have a current AVID or ASIC. An AVID is valid for five years before being renewed.


So, if you have an ASIC, you don't need a photo license. Makes sense to me. ASICs are the far more useful of the two, so if you desperately only want one, get the ASIC. But - if photo licences are free, AND make it $50 cheaper to get an ASIC, whats the problem in getting both?

CASA's sample photo licence. (taken from their website)
http://www.casa.gov.au/fcl/licence/avid.jpg

[JetRacer]

I wrote:

Photo Licences are NOT compulsory.

All you need to have if accessing a security controlled airport is an ASIC.

It is the ASIC which is required after 31 December not a photographic licence.

The fees she said were for the issuing of the ASIC and the background checks required, no fees for a photo licence.



UnderneathTheRadar wrote:

Jetracer

Please don't believe a word you were told by CASA - either you or they have it the wrong way around.

By 1 January - you MUST have an AVID. The process for applying for this means that you will also be issued with a Photo ID - so I guess she was technically correct but only very technically. If you had a photo id from before March 05 then you won't have an AVID.

By 1 January - you MUST have and DISPLAY an ASIC if you are airside at a SECURITY CONTROLLED AERODROME.

The AVID process includes a police check but not an immigration status check. The issuing of a AVID will also include giving you a photo license.




UnderneathTheRadar,

I was not talking about the requirement to have an AVID or ASIC.

I was talking purely in regard to a photographic licence. If you already hold an ASIC then you do not require a photo licence, and if you did 'want' one, then it is free. :D

IF however you do NOT have an ASIC, then the fees apply and you will be issued a photographic licence also (once they have your photo on database from the AVID/ASIC application.)

Didnt I write that you need an AVID/ASIC after December 31?? ..... :confused:

Regards,

JetRacer

[185skywagon]

farrari
you are wrong at this point.
You only need an Asic if you " access a secure area of a security controlled airport that has RPT operations"
check out the other thread I started re the ATSA and remote areas.


we are trying to get this to be the case so it allows the run of the mill GA pilot to not be criminalised.http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196883

[farrari]

185 Hi, not sure I am wrong. Taken from CASA web site "You need a valid ASIC if you need FREQUENT access to a area of a Security Controlled Airport that has RPT''. So BK does not require Asic and by their own words you only need Asic for say Bathurst if you need "FREQUENT"access. However what is the definition of Frequent. It's all very messey!!!!!!!!

[185skywagon]

farrari
not tryin to start a brawl here but, DOTARS have the say, not CASA. An ASIC is required at a SECURITY Controlled Airport,of which Bankstown is one. section 3.16 of the regs.

cheers,
185

[DeltaSix]

Banks town is a security controlled airport ?............. what security ?........:}

I agree, this is all a knee jerk reaction.

If I was the terrorist, I'd use a Boeing or a scAirbus to do it. I wouldn't even bother for a photo ID and an ASIC card.........
I'd just buy a regular run of the mill airline ticket over the internet, print my own boarding pass as you can do nowadays for a few of the gang, go straight to the boarding gate as what they did in the U.S. and ..........

In regards to training, what's stopping them from getting the training overseas ?

If these guys in DOTARS and CASA thinks we are dealing with a bunch of nitwits in response to a check, then they better wake up to reality. If we are a target as Johnny H says, then we should invest more in field agents to stop it at the source and not give more work to AFP checking pilots here ( who could have done it already since 2001) so they can do the more meaningful work......... like trying to find sleeper cells.

Can someone please wake them up !!!


D6

[Pinky the pilot]

I agree with previous posters re the seeming idiocy of most of the new security rules. However, a Government has to be seen to be doing something about what is a serious problem.
The mere fact that all the new photo licencing and ASIC card procedures has more holes in it than a colander, some big enough to fly a 744 through, is totally irrelevant!
Joe and Jane Average in the street, whose complete knowledge of Aviation matters could be engraved on the head of a pin in block letters, probably think that it is all a good idea.
Of course, at some time in the future the general public may tumble to the fact that it is really all mostly a WOFTAM but by then other matters will have appeared which will focus attention elsewhere.

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Ejector]

Does anybody know which form to fill in for a photo licence when you allready hold a ASIC?

[4SPOOLED]

I have my photo L which i received on 28th jan and i had to have an ASIO check for the issue of this however, now i have to have a higher check peformed while i am waiting for another license to be sent to me......

Sounds like one giant mess and noone really cna give you either a straight answer, or knows what is the procedure, or what you even need......

One giant mess that is really stuffing me and my timetable around.

[kookabat]

Joe and Jane Average in the street, whose complete knowledge of Aviation matters could be engraved on the head of a pin in block letters, probably think that it is all a good idea

THEN THEY CAN F*CKING WELL PAY FOR IT!!!!!:*

[apache]

Got to love Government logic. Pinky is right in that ," a Government has to be seen to be doing something "

Anyone remember "Yes Minister" or "Yes Prime Minister" ?
Methinks that the show has been reborn in YSCB.

Great line from it.....

"We must do something. This is something. Let's do this!"

[dude65]

Finally, somebody in power stating the bleeding obvious. Looks like you've got an ally Pinky.

National News

Vanstone dismisses resignation calls
© ABC 2005
More Photos


Vanstone dismisses resignation calls
1:12 PM November 21

Immigration Minister Amanda Vanstone has defended comments she made about Australia's aviation security amid calls by the Opposition for her resignation.

At a speech last week, Senator Vanstone complained about having to use plastic knives on planes and said security measures were more about making people feel better.

"People shouldn't feel that because plastic knives are there, the world is dramatically changed, because there are still HB pencils," she said.

Opposition spokesman Arch Bevis says the Minister is trivialising an important issue.

"There are a lot of things wrong with aviation security in Australia and we don't need senior Cabinet ministers making a mockery of the measures that are in place," he said.

On Southern Cross radio, Senator Vanstone rejected Opposition calls for her sacking.

"If the day has come when a minister can't say what every other Australian says and that is that plastic knives drive us crazy, I think we're in desperate straits," she said.

Senator Vanstone says she does not believe the security measures should be scrapped.

Federal Opposition Leader Kim Beazley says Senator Vanstone is not fit to be a Minister.

"Afraid to say, Amanda ain't up to it," he said.

Senator Vanstone says her comments were not irresponsible and she is not interested in what the Opposition says.

A spokeswoman for Qantas says the airline is supporting a government review of the use of plastic cutlery on planes but does not want to comment on the security issue.

No-one at Virgin Blue wanted to comment.



Source: ABC

[rong]

OK, lets say I've worked through this maze of uncertainty and next year I've got a photo licence, an AVID, and an ASIC, and any other bit of beaurocratic red tape they come up with. I take a private flight and legally land at an SCA which has RPT.

What about my mate, who isn't a pilot, who came along for the ride? Can he get out of the plane without being fined $500. Is he already up for $500 as soon as we touchdown? It's an offence for ANYONE, not just pilots to be in a secure area without an ASIC.

ERSA tells me it's an SCA but doesn't describe the extent of the secure area. If it's the "aircraft movement area" I can't taxi out of it to disembark, and passengers can't legally disembark in it!!

[4SPOOLED]

From what i understand you as the PIC must have the ASIC and are responsible for your pax. They must be with an ASIC holder in secure areas...

4S

[rong]

DOTARS brochure says a visitor accompanying an ASIC holder must wear a visitor identification card. Where's that going to come from inbound?

[dodgybrothers]

probably going to have to apply for a photo visitor card, 3 months prior to your proposed flight of course

[Pinky the pilot]

Dude 65; Yes, how refreshing indeed to see one polly talking sense at long bloody last!!!
I think that if I ever met Senator Vanstone I would even kiss her for that one.:E :E

You only live twice. Once when
you're born. Once when
you've looked death in the face.

[Arm out the window]

Well, Pinky, if you do happen to come across her, so to speak, make sure you take a photo and put it on the internet for everyone to see!
But seriously, if it's only the pilot who must have had the security checks, forms, photos etc., and who is then responsible for the passengers (ie. anyone who looks at a group of people crossing the tarmac needs to see someone with an official-looking ID hanging off their shirt) then the whole idea becomes an even bigger block of Swiss cheese.

[CIA Stooge]

Methinks that the show has been reborn in YSCB.

Apache please don't confuse the place up on the hill with the Airport, plenty of hot air comes from the people in power at both locations but we didn't dream up the security arrangements.

[HI'er]

DOTARS brochure says a visitor accompanying an ASIC holder must wear a visitor identification card. So of what value are these "visitor id" cards going to be?
If they are issued willy nilly to anyone accompanying an ASIC holder, obviously no background check will have been done on that visitor, making the "visitor id" card totally meaningless.

This whole thing reeks of bureaucratic bull**** through and through!

[rong]

If they are issued willy nilly to anyone accompanying an ASIC holder, obviously no background check will have been done on that visitor, making the "visitor id" card totally meaningless.
Even worse, is there an implied responsibility on the pilot to ensure that the person accompanying is of 'good character', which is all an ASIC does anyway?
This whole thing reeks of bureaucratic bull**** through and through!
Amen brother HI'er!