Saffa

[fox13wfd]

Hi, I hope somebody may have some info on this.

I am a South African with a South African Passport with no rights to work in Europe other than the UK, apart from the fact that my fiance is Polish and I may be able to work there if we returned to live there. I have been in London for the past 7 years and will probably get a British Passport around September 2007. This solves the problem of the 'right to live and work' albeit 2 years from now.

I am currently preparing for my PPL Skills Test and will continue to do my commercial license although I am now considering the intergrated route for training. I am also considering going home to South Africa to gain the CPL IR and MULTI ratings and then converting them here as this will save me time and money. What are the complications? Can that be done? Will I have to convert my JAA PPL to a SOuth African one before doing my CPL and then convert it all back again?

Has anybody tried to go this route?

To top it all off, we would like to settle in South Africa in the future sometime. Would I then need to convert back to S African Licenses etc or could I fly there on my South African CPL with JAA ATPLS?

Am I confused? Whats my name?

[Hobgoblin]

Good luck mate.

For a SA Instrument Rating you have to do SA exams. They don't accept JAA ATPL exams - I have that straight from the horse's mouth. Enquired about same and Rose Matseke let me know that the SA CAA do not accept any exams other than their own.

So, I presume that would mean the same thing regarding the Comm.

Is it just me or is someone being really dumb? Seems to me that it would be easy enough for the SA CAA to accept JAA ATPL exams, allow JAA pilots to train in SA for their IR and issue a SA IR. I think it would mean a big boost for the aviation industry and tourist industry in SA as the cost of a IR in SA is about 20% of what it is in the UK.

Easy enough for the newly qualified IR pilot to return and convert to JAA.

How about it CAA?

[lookoutbelow]

Fox,

Hobgoblin is correct. The SA CAA do not except the JAR ATPL's.

Went the SA route myself to get the JAR ATPLf (had initially planned to get both SA and JAR licenses) and it isn't that uncomplicated. Here is some of what I learnt:

JAR or CAA PPL needs converting to SA PPL to fly in SA - Around 7hrs incl check by the CFI of the school you choose. Must sit all 7 (I think 7) SA PPL ground subjects (even if you have the JAR ATPL's passed as I did how daft is that!!)

Once you have SA PPL you can add SA night rating (15 Hrs traing compared to our 5 Hrs and is more like our IMC sylabus with intro to IR flying etc) - the SA night counts fully as your night experience required for grant of the JAR CPL.

You can also add the SA Twin rating - 7-9 hrs training (much cheaper in SA than europe, BE76 with twin inst for about £120-50 per hour! and generally no approach or landing fees) - this can be converted to a JAR Twin rating on either your JAR PPL or CPL with a 1 Hr check ride with a JAR MEP examiner in the UK. my advise would be to do the JAR conversion flight on the same twin that you learnt on in SA though.

You can obviously hour build in SA for the 100 Hrs P1 required for grant of a JAR CPL. Much cheaper and better wx. Had a great time!!

You then have a big choice:

1. Back to the UK for JAR ATPL'S (if you havent already done them before you go to SA), JAR CPL and ME IR courses. Qualified JAR Commercial pilot with ME IR. Do MCC and apply to the European airlines and hope.

2. SA CPL's (or Comm's as they call them) SA CPL and IR'S (they do SE IR and ME IR's as seperate courses). Apply for bush flying jobs, Do a SA Flying Instructor course and teach, build hours, at 1500 Hrs (I think) you can then sit the SA ATPL exams and I think there may be an ATPL skills test. The main thing to appretiate that in Africa it is practically unheard of for a 250 Hr pilot to land an airline job (unless he/she has special circumstances contact, SAA cadet etc), especially on a jet. Generally it works a bit like the US where airlines will start looking at you seriously when you have more like 2000 Hrs, ATPL and a fair bit of twin time logged.

3. OR maybe if you intend job hunting in both JAR land and SA then both SA Comms and JAR ATPL's (min 6 months for the JAR ATPL's and 4 months SA Comms and I have looked at the sylabus' and there are no real short cuts as they are quite different in most of the subjects unfortunately)

If you do do both sets of writtens you can do the SA CPL and IR's and then return to the UK and convert as follows (can be cheaper than just the JAR CPL and ME IR courses, including the conversion courses and you get the two sets of licenses!):

SA CPL to JAR CPL - Training as deemed necassary by the UK FTO and CPL Skills test.

SA ME IR to JAR ME IR - Min 15 Hours training with a UK FTO, followed by JAR ME IR Skills test. 5 hours of the training can be approved sim.


The drawbacks which ultimately prevented me from getting both sets of licenses were:

Time - You could add at least 6, probably 9 months having to sit both written sets of exams, two lots of all the skills tests in the AC and the JAR conversion flying training.

Passport - unlike you I didn't have SA residency so the chances of me getting employed in Africa were a lot smaller. Also visa was expiring.

Motivation - when I looked at the route initially I had just started the JAR ATPL's and hadn't even visited SA before. Having completed 7 months of bloody hard graft to get the ATPL's done in the UK the last thing I wanted to do on arrival in SA was go back in a classroom to study for another 8 CPL's, I wanted to fly!! The weather was good and the job market was begining to pick up back here, basically I didn't want to miss the boat.

If you need any more info, PM or post and I will get back to you when I can. Hope it all go's well.

Lookoutbelow

[fox13wfd]

~Thanks for the input... on other thing....

Do flying hours keep licenses valid regardles..

In other words if I got the S African CPL then converted to JAR CPL but only flew here on the CPL would this keep the S A Licence valid?

Thanks

[lookoutbelow]

Depends on the currency and revalidation requirements of the SA CPL and IR. Of that as I don't have them I am not sure but when I was looking into it all I remmember if you emailed the SA CAA they used to get back fairly promptly and were very helpful so give them a try.

[fox13wfd]

Thanks,

I've emailed the (SA) CAA. Will post the reply here when I get it incase there are any folks out there wondering the same.

[fox13wfd]

Hours is hours it does not matter where you have flown them, But you will still be required to maintain your SA CPL licence.by doing the necessary tests, medical and fee. Refards, Rose

Cut and Pasted from the reply from the SA CAA

[DiscoChocolate]

Lookoutbelow,

Check your PM's :ok: