Does anyone know the reason I can;t book Portugalia flights from Manchester to Lisbon this summer? Are they definitely pulling the route?

Was talking to one of the BA ground agents last night after the ACE and apparently the BA JFK is not showing on next winters programme.
Looks like it is finally going to bite the dust! :-(
Will AA take the route over? t3 will sure look good with three AA tails every morning.

lets hope one day gb will take over that route from man, doubt it very much but who knows????????

enjoying your flying mancry

Just checked the system and MAN-JFK is still on there for next winter in 2 of the major booking systems.....so it looks like there will not be 3 AA tails on t3!

Oh right, must be a rumour amongst BA MAN staff then.
Yeah Bozzy still enjoyin it although phoned in sick today cos i feel ill. was meant to be doin TFS. Not flown with yet, can't believe it.

yeah i seen the crew list and pax figures for your flight and seen your name, vicki is on it too. you bad boy phoning in sick, get well soon matey. did agp today and it was really busy coming back i am nackered.
one day i might get to work with you, doubt it though.
i am on tfs tomoz and sunday are you on any?

No not on any of those. Shame i missed Vikki tonight anyways.

Hi
Anyone know if the GB/BA C Class service is worth doing. Going on business to Malta later in month. A trip of that length might just justify the premium. (3hours??).
Grateful for any comments/experiences.
Thanks

Hi there.

Does anybody know if jet2 are going to be lauching any more routes from MAN before the summer schedule starts?
They seem to be announcing new routes from their other bases on a regular basis at the minute but theres been no news on Manchester for a while now.
They seem to have gaps in their schedules which would suggest that they are but it's only a few months til the season starts and surely theyre leaving it a little late?
It looks like BUD and VCE arent going to be operating next summer. Can anyone confirm this?

Does anyone know who will handle Libyan Arab Airlines when they start in Feb?

VHF Flyer. As far as short haul premium cabins go, Club Europe is good. As our flights are leisure orientated, we only tend to end up needing two rows for club (10 seats) so its quite intimate. Food is nice and on the longest flights, the starter is served separately although Malta is classed as a band 3 flight. Champagne offered all journey,drinks whenever you want of course. The seats are very comfortable.
Euro Traveller is also pleasant and the seat pitch is the same.

Taken from the EMA Thread.....
[SIZE="1"](Leicester Mercury Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge)It is a long haul to India for the thousands of Leicestershire people who head there each year - but that could soon change.
Nottingham East Midlands Airport (Nema) is in talks with potential airlines in a bid to offer a regular service to the country.
The airport believes such a flight would prove hugely successful because of the huge Asian population of Leicestershire and surrounding counties.
The move has been welcomed by commuters, who say they are fed up with having to travel to London for regular flights to India.
Penny Coates , managing director of Nema, said: "Our customers in Leicester tell us destinations in the Indian subcontinent would be their priority for the development of our long-haul services.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
In respect of long haul Ex EMA is there not a conflict of interest here between Manchester Airport itself and the Manchester Airport Holding Company with ref to EMA.
With a massive Indian population in the N West surely Manchester Airport must be trying to promote Indian flights themselves ?

VHF Flyer. As far as short haul premium cabins go, Club Europe is good. As our flights are leisure orientated, we only tend to end up needing two rows for club (10 seats) so its quite intimate. Food is nice and on the longest flights, the starter is served separately although Malta is classed as a band 3 flight. Champagne offered all journey,drinks whenever you want of course. The seats are very comfortable.
Euro Traveller is also pleasant and the seat pitch is the same.


MancRy
Thanks - Tempting since I've got the budget this time (although champagne at 7.00?:ugh: )
Also I believe, a 'proper a/c' rather than the usual 'tight squeeze' on offer from MAN through BACX.

Your welcome VHF Flyer. Yeah the seats are wider and are comfortable.

Indian pax might fly from NEMA who wouldn't trek North to MAN. They might use BHX for example.

It's all about increasing market share and increasing catchment and competing against BAA. That's why MAPLC bought NEMA.

Bagso - Your assertion that the North-West has a "massive" Indian population is not quite correct, but the misunderstanding is a common one. Because we are encouraged to refer to people originating from the sub-continent as "Asians" it is easy to lose sight of the reality. The North-West actually has a "massive" population of Pakistanis and a healthy population of Bengalis [Bangladesh], but Indians really do favour the Midlands. These ethnic groups are not randomly dispersed around the UK; immigrants from specific regions of the sub-continent like to settle in the towns made familiar by their preceeding kinsfolk. Hence Manchester Airport is particularly well served by flights to Pakistan (which do very well) but continues to provide a relatively unattractive prospect for Indian carriers compared to airports in the Midlands.

Personally, I think we would all be far better informed if PC types did not insist on promoting the "Asian" tag. We would have much greater understanding of the very different Indian / Pakistani / Bengali cultures if we were encouraged to recognise them as such. When I am introduced to an "Asian" I want to know whether to try out my Turkish, Buryat, Cantonese, Mongolian, Arabic or Urdu ... we never face the problem of being introduced to a "European" after all!

Humour aside, if we are to truly understand ethnic minorities (and the air travel markets they represent), it is a good start not to be coy about recognising them as who they really are and where they actually originate from.

Not too controversial for the forum I trust ...

SHED.

Shed you are quite right, we see more Bangaladeshis than Indians transferring through LHR, so on that basis it would make more sense to start a Bangladeshi route out of MAN.

To be honest rather than making sweeping genralisations I was infact actually comparing the UK census figures of 2001 by religous origination which although not as large as the Midlands does actually show a "sizeable" Indian population based in the North West, suggesting therefore that Manchester could easily support a number of flights to India !

I would be more than delighted to send the link !

My core concern was more that the Manchester Airport Group should really only promote another airport within the group, where there is no potential competition with Manchester itself. In this case there might be !

I say this only because of the financial arrangaments of the Plc. If the Manchester Airport Group was similar in financial struture to say the BAA then that would be different.

Although Manchester Airport Group is registered as a plc its shares are not quoted or for sale on the Stock Exchange. At least 4 web sites quote Manchester City Council as having majority shareholding (55%) with each of the remaining nine councils in Greater Manchester holding 5%, I would stress that they quote the "Group" including NEMA , Humberside etc.

Unless each of these official local government web sites are incorrect it suggests that we have 10 North West based councils actively promoting services at another airport that "might" have considered Manchester....!

If there is no chance of a Manchester service then that is a different issue but there is interest here, Air India initially applied for slots at Manchester last year only to run into terminal restrictions which actually saw them reconsider and move the request to BHX which is less congested and where they were welcomed with open arms !

MAPLC is owned by the 10 local authorities of Grtr Mcr, yes. MAPLC also owns three other airports apart from MAN, in a separate Ltd company I think - EMA, BOH and HUY (the latter in partnership with a local authority - at least initially).

The purpose of said acquisition (which was funded entirely by debt secured against all four airports - a shame because MAN was debt-free before that, and they paid *well* over the market price for EMA and BOH) enables them to compete against BAA/Peel/TBI etc. in the UK airport marketplace and have a greater voice with Govt etc.

But one significant benefit is to allow them to derive economies of scale in "Group" activities e.g. purchasing, legal, property and facilities development, as well as securing access to new markets for their MAAS subsidiary (car parking, engineering, fire and security). For example they sacked NCP who used to provide car parking at NEMA, and now, after a rigorous and transparent tender process, MAAS provides the car park service. Another subsidiary, MADL, now provides the facilities development function.

NEMA employs its own ATCOs, whereas MAN pays NATS to do it. How will that be flexed to give "Group" benefit? Will MAAS provide security, engineering and fire cover at NEMA in the future? What about these three, plus car parking, at BOH and HUY, where incidentally both MDs are ex-MAN staff?

HUY (the latter in partnership with a local authority - at least initially).
MAN owns just over 80% of HUY which was bought from East Riding, Hull and North East Lincolnshire Councils in 1999. The balance is owned by North Lincolnshire Council who didnt sell their shares when the other councils did

Air India tried Manchester back in the 90s and it was a spectular failure. The service then was originally planned for Birmingham, but was hijacked at the last minute with the lure of zero landing fees at Manchester. Air India assumed that passengers would not mind travelling to Manchester to fly with them, but were soon proved wrong. Further proof of this can be seen with the success of services by the likes of Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan from BHX to India, both of which have also tried from Manchester without much success.

I wouldn't call Air India's previous Manchester attempt a spectacular failure....... I think it was more a case of them redeploying their 310s on far more lucrative routes within the rapidly expanding Asian market. They were/ are renowned for having a lack of capacity to satisfy their network needs, so top performing routes naturally take precedence.

"spectacular failiure".... hardly
They wanted flights to Bombay which is where the majority of the North West population wanted to fly to....now renamed Mumbai this was/is the commercial capital. The UK Governement paid lip service to the numerous applications AI made but would only grant a limited service to Delhi.
Comparison between now and then are not vaild anyway as BHX was not in the equation at that time as there were no aircraft capable of full load untilisation as there are today ie The B777 was not around !
As I recall AI had previously tried BHX with 707 via Moscow which was also shelved...presumably another spectacular failiure ?
..and yes they wanted the aircrft for more lucrative routes...one of which would have been MAN -BOM !
As for Man offering zero landing fees ..well why on earth would they do that ? yes they would offer competitve landing fees as indeed would BHX but zero ...come on ! This isn't a subsidised STN operation...!

Hi Invicta DC4,

Use of emotive phrases such as "spectacular failure" and "hijacked at the last minute" offer the impression that your posting may be less than objective! Let's not go down one of those "my airport is better than your airport" cul-de-sacs, eh?

The Air India Manchester service which you describe as a "spectacular failure" grew over a number of seasons from 2x to 4x weekly; loads were very good. As 'Capital 203' points out, the service was withdrawn when the Air India A300 fleet came to the end of it's useful life; Air India was unable to procure a replacement at the time and therefore made the decision to redeploy A310's from European routes (not just MAN) to cover those within Asia formerly operated by A300's. As has been mentioned in this thread, Air India's choice in favour of BHX over MAN afew months ago was down to terminal capacity issues, not memories of past "spectacular failure." MAN would not have been reconsidered at all under such circumstances.

The Uzbekistan service to which you also refer operated successfully ex-MAN for many years. Ironically, the reason it switched from MAN to BHX was the launch of the Air India MAN service which we have just discussed. The Turkmenistan Airways service was very short-lived operating just afew rotations before fading away. Launching shortly after 9/11 could not have been a great help, but on the two occasions I saw it the service appeared to be full. Another Manchester - India operator for afew seasons was Singapore Airlines. My understanding is that their MAN-Mumbai sector was very popular, but it fell by the wayside as SIA brought online B772's capable of offering MAN-SIN non-stop.

I should also clarify for Bagso and others that I am not arguing [in my earlier posting] that MAN cannot support a scheduled service to India. Quite the contrary, I believe that the point is already proven by past successful services. Just as the distribution of Pakistanis in England means that BHX can support a PIA service (but on a much smaller scale than MAN), so the distribution of Indians means MAN can support an India service (but with a smaller market than the Midlands). It is not my intention to suggest that there are NO Indians in the North-West; simply that cities such as Birmingham and Leicester offer a much more substantial market opportunity to prospective carriers. And it is the fact that communities including Leicester are firmly within the EMA catchment area which vindicates that airport's initiative to attract a service to India. I think there would be monopoly concerns raised if MAplc were to try to block that.

I remain optimistic that MAN will eventually secure a successful India service under the new liberal bilateral agreement. However, it is also my expectation that BHX will continue to offer more India connections than MAN, and that EMA may indeed enter the reckoning too.

Best to all. SHED.

OK, spectacular failure may have been slightly OTT, but I stand by the hijacked at the last minute and zero landing fees comment. Handling Agent and in flight catering contracts had been agreed at BHX for the service to switch at the last minute to MAN. Air India wrongly assumed that the passengers who were likely to use their service wouldn't mind the 80 mile trip up the M6. The Indian community in the midlands did mind and voted with their feet.

To back up the zero landing fee argument, why did American Airlines get so p***ed off with MAN when Continental Airlines started? Someting to do with zero landing fees and risk sharing for the first twelve months?

And no, it was never meant as a my airport is better than yours argument.

Hello again Invicta DC4,

I am unable to challenge your suggestion that pax from the Midlands "voted with their feet" and avoided the Air India service ex-MAN because I have no data to confirm where their customers' bookings were made. However, I am sure that Air India care little about whether their passengers were booking from Birmingham, Manchester, Carlisle or Timbuktu as long as those bookings came in. And the bookings did come in. The passenger figures were very healthy, especially considering that the aircraft had to allow space for travellers boarding in Rome too. Air India may or may not have assumed that customers would be willing to travel 80 miles up the M6, but if they did misjudge that then they suffered no forfeit. The bookings came in anyway - from somewhere - and that is all that matters. The service ended due to fleet issues, not poor patronage.

With regard to a nil-landing-fees deal I cannot comment as I have no supporting data either way. However, in respect of "hijacking" deals it is normal market practice for airports to vie with each other to win new business. Airlines often deliberately make it known that they are considering a new service to see what offers come their way from the airports sector ... they owe nobody any loyalty and make the decision which suits them best at the time which suits them best. Such is the nature of the business. Both MAN and BHX have examples of winning and losing potential new business this way - it is a form of competitive tendering if you will. Of course, enthusiasts and civic-pride types understandably exhibit frustration and bitterness when a contract goes against them, but it is best to take a step back as must the professional airport managers. The trick is to make sure more of the next batch of 'big-fish' choose you rather than the other guy. But one sets oneself up for grief and misery if supposing it is possible to win 'em all! When MAN won Air India's service first time around, the deal was won based on an attractive business proposition - not a hijacking. And likewise, when BHX won Air India this time round (when MAN rated it's chances) the same applies: BHX offered a deal which MAN's capacity constraints prevented it from matching. There are many other examples; Gulf Traveller chose BHX over MAN (did they ever turn up, by the way?), Etihad chose MAN over BHX. This is the way of things. It's normal. No spite, no "hijacking", just competitive tendering to win new business. And the best package wins.

I thank you for your feedback and for your commitment to keeping this discussion non-partisan.

With best regards, SHED.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this debate and apologies if I gave the impression that I was taking a knock at Manchester, this is not the case.

The way I see it at the moment with particular routes is that its a case of "Horses for courses". Passengers including myself are not prepared to travel 2 + hours to an airport and are more likely to route via AMS or FRA from their local airport. This is the mistake IMHO that Air India made some years ago.

Just because you have a first class airport wherever doesn't mean you automatically deserve routes to wherever and this was the impression I was getting in recent posts about Manchester on this forum.

With regard to the zero landing fees and risk sharing, yes, that is obviously acceptable and normal practice these days especially with the likes of some Locos. The point being was that we are talking 9-10 years ago when there was not a level playing field, i.e some airports where plc's others were local authority controlled so the question of subsidies come into play.

Finally (for the time being!) I do not have any particular allegience to any airport, If the fare is right and at the time, I do not have to travel too far, then I will fly from wherever (with the exception of LGW)

If you are wondering about my user name, the first flight I ever took was on an Invicta Airways DC4 (C54) from Manston to Munich and back. 3 hours each way at FL80 in 1968.

Point taken re markets/catchment areas etc. I appreciate the difference between different countries! Nevertheless, from a MA Group perspective, the Group has won a route and passengers from one of its airports to India that it didn't have before. Whichever airport it's from, lucky shareholders.

Re zero pricing, MAN is a regulated airport, unlike STN. Therefore the discounts they offer have to be available to any airline. They are published every year. What may look like a discount to airline x to a specified destination is in fact available to any airline wanting to serve that route, if it is a new route, or the airline concerned aims to increase capacity or frequency on an existing route.

If it's a new airline serving an existing route, no discount.

I don't think "Fees and Charges" is on manchesterairport.co.uk. If someone finds it, please post the link.

Cheers

I don't think "Fees and Charges" is on manchesterairport.co.uk. If someone finds it, please post the link.

Try the following link:
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/web.nsf/Content/LiteratureArchive
Fees and Charges are an Adobe dowload but do not yet show 06/07 fees.
Scottie Dog
:ok:

Thanks SD
I got to that page but never saw the link near the bottom.
I reckon they won't have finalised the charges this far out from 1/4/06 as they have to check the prices against the schedules to ensure the total income doesn't break the price cap set by the regulator.
But I predict some interesting surprises for 06/07 to stimulate more interest in the off peaks (both before the morning departures peak, and in the afternoon and evening) and total income will probably please the regulator too.
Shame they're pushing wages down and down across the Group to fund all these price cuts. Not like they're short of profits is it?
I could rant on that MA fleeces all its service partners (especially airlines, handling agents, retailers and the terminal cleaners) so they have to cut the only cost they really control (wages), with the end result that they can't get or keep staff, so bags go unmoved, tables uncleared, shops unopened in the early mornings, and floors unswept. All the profit rises to the top of the pyramid (ultimately Manchester City Council getting 55% of that) and everyone else has tiny margins.
But I won't ;)

Many years ago (1980s) I recall the Air India UK manager saying that if AI did commence scheduled flights from any other airport outside of LHR, then that airport would be Manchester. The prime reason being that Birmingham and the Midlands catchment area was too close to London. As has already been pointed out the last AI MAN service with A310s was curtailed as those aircraft were put to better use in the then more lucrative Far East market.
As Shed-on-a-Pole has pointed out, Asian residents in the NW are mostly Pakistani/Bangladeshi. Indians (although a large NW population in their own right) do tend to prefer the Midlands.
Invicta DC4 -- As to landing fees you are wide off the mark. All airports offer incentives to entice new operators to their airports. Birmingham was no different. Manchester offered - as it still does - low to nil landing charges for a specific period, to any operator to help and encourage them to develop new routes. After which the airline is expected to be able to stand on its own feet. Hence your reference to CO v AA; the timing was unfortunate - or perhaps carefully timed by the competition. One airline's discounted started up fees came to an end, as the other operator started up with the low fees. Difficult to compete when you are now having to pay full whack.
Regarding the EasyJet saga mentioned by ezy733. I am assuming he/she is referring to the recent slots issue. I shall point out that the original inquiries from EZY to set up at MAN had nothing to do with slots, this was more to do with the MAN management of the time refusing to drop their airport charges - this of course was in the early loco days. It was a take it, or leave it scenario. Those are the charges, if you don't like it go elsewhere. So Easy did - to Liverpool. Likewise Ryanair, later on. MAN has now recognise that locos are here to stay, and adjusted their charges in the last couple of years, with bmi baby the first to benefit. If MAN had adjusted their charges when Easy first approached them, then there is no doubt Easy would be a major player in the airline business at MAN by now, as the airport always was its preferred base in the North-West. But hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Looks like CX are only selling a very limited number of seats from MAN to HKG and v. 52, according to a post on a.net, 3C and 52Y....gues the revenue is to be made from Moscow. Maybe cargo is the key to this route succeeding?

Any more news on Global Spirit?!

what's a.net?

An aviation website that includes a forum. Im not sure if Im allowed to post a link to it or not


Edit: The answer to that question can be found at the top of this page.

Vuelo.
Having trawled through a few travel websites recently in the vain hope of a cheapie to HKG, I could not find any offering MAN-HKG direct:confused:
Yep you guessed it MAN-LHR-HKG.:yuk:
Maybe that's the reason the numbers are low.
Egerton Flyer....

If you go to the Cathay website it certainly shows it. And I doubt there will be any cheapies either.

Hi

Jet2 have there Manchester to Amsterdam and Budepest flights now on sale for summer 2006. The Amsterdam service is dropped to just 2 times daily. Except on Saturdays when a 3rd flights dose operate. While Budepest operates 4 times weekly.

27 March 2006 - 22 October 2006,

LS945 1234567 Manchester 06:40 Amsterdam 09:00
LS945 -----6- Manchester 08:15 Amsterdam 10:30
LS949 1234567 Manchester 17:15 Amsterdam 19:30

LS946 1234567 Amsterdam 09:35 Manchester 09:50
LS946 -----6- Amsterdam 11:00 Manchester 11:15
LS950 1234567 Amsterdam 20:00 Manchester 20:15

LS897 1--45-7 Manchester 10:05 Budapest 13:55

LS898 1--45-7 Budapest 14:25 Manchester 16:25

I would like to see Jet2 go daily on the FCO route and maybe start a Barcelona too.

Twice daily MAN - CDG would be a nice 1 too. I believe that CDG does well from LBA and AF seem to be very expensive at times.

Wonder why AMS has been dropped down to twice daily. I thought the loads of this route were pretty high?

LBIA

I think you have made an error with the weekend AMS schedules. According to the Jet2 website Saturday has services departing MAN at 08:15 and 17:15 and on Sunday only 1 service at 17:15.

Your own list already has two LS945/6 flights on Saturday. The 06:40 departure is Monday to Friday only. So it's down to two flights per day except Sunday.

From tha data I have seen the loads have been higher than MAN-EDI or MAN-LGW for Jet2 but lower than LBA-AMS. The middle flight was probably the weak point and has been dropped accordingly. Anyone for a spare pair of AMS slots?

PTH

"I think you have made an error with the weekend AMS schedules. According to the Jet2 website Saturday has services departing MAN at 08:15 and 17:15 and on Sunday only 1 service at 17:15. "

I can confirm that the Jet 2 websie did say 3 flights on a Saturday, for a short while. This was obviously an error and has been sorted out now, so LBIA was'nt actually wrong in his posting.

POL1W (& LBIA),

Thanks. Those mid-upload glitches do happen sometimes.

Just treat it as an update rather than a correction of an error.

PTH

well it's all gone very quiet on the Manchester front! Has anyone got any news or developments?

Any movement on Cathay Pacific or Etihad?

What about rumours of Meridiana, or any new BA Connect routes?

Any movement on Cathay Pacific Delayed!:sad:

well it's all gone very quiet on the Manchester front! Has anyone got any news or developments?
Any movement on Cathay Pacific or Etihad?
What about rumours of Meridiana, or any new BA Connect routes?

Yes well it happens sometimes doesn't it, there isnt always MAN news :hmm:

Delayed!:sad:

Care to enlighten us Mr Spanners? I'm planning an extended Moscow trip early April on the back of this:\

[QUOTE=Vuelo]well it's all gone very quiet on the Manchester front! Has anyone got any news or developments?

A mate of mine in Cardiff told me Air Wales are going to be flying Manch to Rennes, France from March.
Is this true anyone - sounds like an oddity to me - not that I'm likely to use it or anything - just interested.

The official line is that negotiations are ongoing but not finalised yet. Afraid can't say any more than that at the moment.:{

Jet2.com have put there Manchester - London Gatwick flights on sale for summer 2006 season. Flights continue to operate 3 times daily weekdays and once on Sundays. There is no flights on a Saturday.

Also note that on all Bank holiday Mondays only the mid-day flight will operate. While on Tue 18th Wed, 19th Thu 20th & Fri 21 of April the flights will be only twice daily with the mid-day service been axed.

LS901 12345-- Manchester 06:55 London Gatwick 07:55
LS903 12345-- Manchester 14:30 London Gatwick 15:35
LS905 12345-7 Manchester 18:00 London Gatwick 19:05

LS902 12345-- London Gatwick 08:45 Manchester 09:45
LS904 12345-- London Gatwick 16:10 Manchester 17:15
LS906 12345-7 London Gatwick 19:45 Manchester 20:45

Does anyone know if Jet2 will be restarting their Venice Marco Polo service this summer? It seems to have gone a bit quiet on that front!

Heard today that it looks like all of BMI's operations will move to 3 from 1st June this year. That includes Baby, too apparently.

According to Plane Talk, gates 49 and 143 are to be completely refurbished. One assumes in readiness for the BD long-hauls.

According to Plane Talk, gates 49 and 143 are to be completely refurbished. One assumes in readiness for the BD long-hauls.

IICR BMI will put there 330 (if they still have one in manchester?) on 44 and they will be a new walkway there from 43.

Well, the president of Pakistan turned up at MAN today (in an A310 for you spotters).
Rumour has it he is here, amongst other things, to finalise MAN as the European Hub for PIA's future ops.
Anyone heard anything definate?

I heard the same about the PIApresident. I heard that they were looking at doublingtheir ops at MAN! Is this possible?! Is there room on Terminal 2?!

I thought MAN was already the european hub for PIA ? and with the impending delivery of ER 777s movements will be overflying Manchester ?

I thought MAN was already the european hub for PIA ? and with the impending delivery of ER 777s movements will be overflying Manchester ?

I think that is the current situation and in the future with the new 777s alot of routes will overfly MAN wouldn't they?

The staff canteen at MAN T1 is to close at the end of March.

Well that's just fantastic. I know everybody goes on about the eggs in the staff canteen, but the rest isn't too bad and it's cheap. Will MAAS be providing discounts for staff at the other outlets, becuase bringing your own food isn't realisitic and there are only so many meal deals I can take.:\

From talking to a member of staff in the canteen earlier this week, they said that the space was to be used for retail for passengers and there were no plans to provide an alernative acility.

I am not sure, but I don;t think MAplc have to provide anything for the staff at MAN. I agree it is a useful facility, but donlt hold your berath for a replacement. And firthermore, the staff at T2 have never had a staff canteen, s mnaybe the airport canlt be bothered to make room for one at T2 so balancing things up by scrapping the one at T1!

Was speaking to one of the girls who works behind the counter of the Deli only a few weeks back and she said that they were moving to a bigger outlet in the quadrangle of the main tower block, close to the entrance for terminal 1 baggage. Not entirely sure of the accuracy of this information but apparently the reason for this is so they can utilise more kitchen space and for the 1st time they will have friers, meaning food such as chips and fried eggs will be on the menu.

Doubt many people will be too impressed with this location if what she says is true, even if it does mean more choice. Not so bad for myself. I work for SAS and our office is just at the top of the staircase down to the quadrangle so nice and easy.

Anyway, the current deli unit is supposedly being turned into a new passenger facility. God only knows what? Oh and O'Briens in T1 will be closing at the end of the month too. New sandwich outlet will replace it. Not really surprised! Absolute rip off that place, although the bacon and cream cheese bagels they serve at brekkie are nice!!!

While it's very interesting that the eggs in the staff canteen are a bit crap can we get back onto the 'rumour' part of pprune please?
Just read elsewhere that Thai are still looking at MAN...anyone know anymore?

I believe O'Briens is to become Subway, so it is said!

That would be excellent! Hope that is true Vuelo. Would make a nice change from Burker King and Boots meal deals!!:ok:

I was just thinking the other day MAN needs a Subway, I think i've done nearly every boots meal deal combination going from their T1 outlet. Would make a nice change at lunchtime!

Join the meal deal club! Think i must have too! All 3 terminals could do with an overhaul with regards to facilities. As staff that work there everyday, we know that the choices can often be limited. People may say that this has nothing to do with new routes, expansion etc but in some ways it has. Airport facilities are extremely important to passengers, particularly when faced with long delays. I was on the T1 information desk for much of the summer with TCX delays and alot of the feedback from pax was that the facilities the airport offered weren't adequate enough. The airport is often concentrating on adding new food outlets, retail establishments and the like and this is criticised by many as purely a profit making exercise. On the contrary, the more facilities there are for passengers the better their experience will be and there are still many areas of improvement in all terminals to give passengers the best possible experience before they depart. And of course, MAN staff will also benefit from better facilities too :p

The staff canteen at MAN T1 is to close at the end of March.


This angers me. Will no-one think of the sausage baguettes?

Any news on Etihad or Libyan Arab?

High street food prices rather than the rip-off prices throughout the airport would be especially welcomed, I'm sure. :\

Nearly all the food and drink places are run by Select Service Partner. That includes the O'Briens. They're just freshening up their range I guess with a Subway.

SSP pay the airport £millions in concession fees every year (in fact they now have the concession for all 4 group airports) yet have to employ minimum wage staff from southern and eastern Europe cos their wages are so low. But MA made £80m profit last year, so that's ok. What profit did SSP make at MAN? Nil probably.

Staff facilities have got worse and worse since the old canteen upstairs that was always busy. Nothing to do with competition. It's all to do with bosses working us harder and harder so a lunch hour has become nothing more than a memory. Now it's expected that you take your lead from the bosses who come into the office with a Boots bag at 3pm cos it's the first chance to stop for a quick bite. Pathetic.

Hi
Does anybody know what aircraft will be operating these routes in the summer?
TOM6291-0730-Friday's-Manchester-Malaga
TOM1898-2305-Tuesday's-Malaga-Manchester

Any information would be great.
Regards
Michael

The staff canteen at MAN T1 is to close at the end of March.

Doesn't Manchester have a Gregg's? At Leeds Gregg's is the staff canteen:)

SSP do not staff or run Starbucks outlets at MAN.

I have spent the weekend fretting like a stray for the future of my sausage baguettes. Can someone in the know confirm that the Deli is indeed to close? And could someone confirm when it's replacement will open?

The contents of this message are critical to ATC safety.

Seriously.

nf01,
Make sure that he "Changes his Gloves" before serving "food"
watp,iktch

god, big deal about the canteen, bring your own food you bunch of moaning bleeders, just go to the canteen in the cargo centre. now does anyone know who and where the first a380 is coming in the uk ? any intel would be appreciated.

Well, the president of Pakistan turned up at MAN today (in an A310 for you spotters).
Rumour has it he is here, amongst other things, to finalise MAN as the European Hub for PIA's future ops.
Anyone heard anything definate?

Have to somewhat doubt this as the aircraft was only on gate for 1 Hr 30 Minutes !!!, think you might find this was a fuel stop en-route Edwards AFB - Karachi.

MoM

Bigmuk play nice now, as you well know the sausage bagutte is very important to us over in T1.

Now re the 380 question I recieved this from a most reliable source the other day:
Reference A380 at Manchester, the date being quoted by Airbus at Filton and
Chester is June 10th. A380 will be on static in the morning at Filton Families Day, and will then open their flying display early in the afternoon, before flying to Chester for a Families Day flying display there.
Following display at Chester, A380 will fly to Manchester for gate compatability trials / operational evaluation. It's not yet clear if A380 will night stop at MAN, or return to Toulouse later in the day.
Watch this space.!!

Now leave the baguttes.

Heard today that the syaff canteen at T1 will indeed close, that's official. It;s replacement will be, among other things, a staff entrance to airside to T1 and T3.....makes sense I suppose.

On AIR SCOTLAND's Booking Sytem they have now got:

Manchester to Palma

Flight EY313 from Abu Dhabi is showing on the arrivals board as 'on time' for a 06.20 arrival according to the Manchester Airport website.

Is this a mistake? Ethiad aren't even taking bookings yet.

Talking to the staff at Millies Cookies today in T1, they confirmed that O'Briens is going to become a Starbucks...not Subway as previously posted. They didnt seem to impressed by it either!

BA have announced that it is to withdraw its Manchester to Oslo route from the 4th March.

That's the 11th route withdrawn in just over a year

Any guesses which one willl be next?

Belfast, IOM, Hanover???

Is Ryanair's Liverpool-Torp route to blame?

:rolleyes:

Just wish they would go away and let someone else have a go at doing something useful with the slots.



BTW: Torp maybe in Norway but calling it 'Oslo' is Trade Description Act territory

Just received an email from bmibaby confirming that their flights will arrive and depart from Terminal 3 from March 26th. Looks like the move is on then...

Just received an email from bmibaby confirming that their flights will arrive and depart from Terminal 3 from March 26th. Looks like the move is on then...

Yep, WW moving to T3

WW move to T3 on 26/03/2006 and BD move there on 01/06/2006.

The new BD transfer desk was begun this week, located opposite he BA transfer desk opposite gate 52 in the arrivals area, it'll certainly mean a lot less number of transfers heading through T1 transfers for BD.

:rolleyes:
Just wish they would go away and let someone else have a go at doing something useful with the slots.
BTW: Torp maybe in Norway but calling it 'Oslo' is Trade Description Act territory

Because they are all queing up for the slots BA have opened up by dropping the NCE, FCO, STR etc.......

Even Jet2 dropped the FCO and the NCE why shud BA fly routes that make no profit?

Soon manchester will just be a Luton/Liverpool.

SAS, 6 rotations daily to Scandinavia, plus CityLink, plus Finair......
watp,iktch

SAS, 6 rotations daily to Scandinavia, plus CityLink, plus Finair......
watp,iktch

I stand corrected. It is the same people slagging off BA for pulling off routes that make no money when other UK based airlines have pulled off other routes from MAN and ship there aircraft down to LHR, still i guess they will not be around flying L/H for much longer at MAN.....

Even Jet2 dropped the FCO and the NCE why shud BA fly routes that make no profit?
FYI. Jet 2 are flying daily MAN-NICE & 5 x a week FCO.
They are both summer only routes & were flown 2005 & this year too.
The BA CON E145 would be unlikely to compete.
The BA FCO route used to be always full when operated by BAR B733s, as most of the Euro routes were.
Oslo is no surprise, it boarded next to my flt a few weeks ago with three pax.
SAS have probably corneered the Scandi market, as has KLM, AFR, DLH, HLX & ABB have done with the Dutch, French & german markets.

FYI. Jet 2 are flying daily MAN-NICE & 5 x a week FCO.
They are both summer only routes & were flown 2005 & this year too.

So i am correct in saying that no one is flying there at the moment then.

Spoke with CX official today who said the Russians are creating 'no end of problems for us' with regards to the new Manchester to Hongkong service. He seemed very sceptical that it;ll go ahead, which if true is a real shame.

What are people's opinions on these new Air Scotland routes? Will they even go ahead? Weekly flights to BCN, PMI and AGP seem very strange indeed. There is a lot of competition on the Palma and Malaga routes already with the majority of carriers operating a more frequent service and a weekly flight to Barcelona just seems like a nonsense to me. Who the hell will use that? I notice that the BCN flight due to operate today has been cancelled after being put back a week already. Non starter?

God knows! I think there is more to it than just a once-weekly service.....is it maybe slot protectionism on behalf of another carrier?

Air Scotland / Greece Airways...seems like they have an identitiy crisis!

Re: A380, Airbus and the Aiport Authority have confirmed there are no current plans for the aircraft to visit MAN.

A few bits of info
After initial slot submissions in Nov05 there was a 16% rise in movements. After handback day last week that figure is now only up 3% on last year !
Partly responsible for this small increase in traffic was last weeks confirmation that BAconnet have handed back 17% of historic slots for the summer (similar to this winter) and as a result these will be lost forever to them. Routes confirmed axed are FCO, NCE, ORK,OSL, PSA, SNN, STR, VCE AND ZRH . FRA will be reduced from 5 to 3 times a day aswell !
brgds
TCM

Spoke with CX official today who said Russians are creating 'no end of problems for us' Sorry Vuelo but your informant is incorrect. There are issues but it's not with the Russians but someone else, based near Sherwood Forest I believe!:eek:

MAN-HKG should happen, but not via SVO initially, but hopefully in the long term it will. It will be via somewhere, but can't confirm it yet!:sad:

My CX info was as good as the CX manager that gave it to me!

Well, I think we can all put a reasonable bet on it being Frankfurt...seeing as BA are reducing it, and CX are Oneworld partners....would also enable QF ax connecting via FRA to tap in to the service....

Just a little tid bit.

The Alitalia a.m MXP flight will move forward a few hours to a much better time of 0600am dep from MAN, offering a longer day in Milan for business users, and more connecting opportunities from the AZ MXP hub.

Regards

Mike

The Chariman of Kingfisher Ailrines has been quoted on an Indian Aviation News site as saying Delhi to Manchester could be served by his airline in the future

Don't know if this has been reported but........

British Airways Franchise partner, British Airways CitiExpress, has announced the withdrawal of its service between Manchester and Oslo, effective 5 March 2006.
The last service will operate on 4 March 2006.

Customers booked on these cancelled services will be automatically rebooked on services between Manchester and Oslo via London Heathrow on the same departure date.

Just a little tid bit.
The Alitalia a.m MXP flight will move forward a few hours to a much better time of 0600am dep from MAN, offering a longer day in Milan for business users, and more connecting opportunities from the AZ MXP hub.
Regards
Mike

Presumably this is due to the release by BA Connect of their 'Grandfather' slots at the end of January.

As somebody said to me - now is the opportunity for an airline to take some premium slots, on a first come first serve basis, and create a mini-hub.

Scottie Dog
:ok:

Press release on the Cathay website announcing the postponement of the Manchester startup. Reads like the anchester end is the problem, although I would have thought that permission from either the Chinese or Russians to continue on to Manchester is more likely to be the problem (trying to avoid upsetting the Russians maybe?).

Press release on the Cathay website announcing the postponement of the Manchester startup. Reads like the anchester end is the problem, although I would have thought that permission from either the Chinese or Russians to continue on to Manchester is more likely to be the problem (trying to avoid upsetting the Russians maybe?).

:rolleyes: That will teach MAPLC to put it on the front cover of Plane Talk :rolleyes:

This story made the front page of the Business section of the South China Morning Post this morning. Report indicates (quote Cathay Executive)"the key hurdle is Aeroflot's lack of traffic rights to fly to Manchester... a fact that Cathay management was appraised of only late last month."

"Cathay would not comment on Aeroflot's bi-lateral status". Aeroflot's General Manager in Hong Kong did not respond to inquiries this week.

Report also indicates that Russia is a small but growing market "making it necessary from a profit perspective for Cathay to include an onward destination such as Manchester". Cathay "continues to work with its partners in the hopes of resolving the outstanding issues".

I thought that Aeroflot did have flights (traffic rights) into Manchester from Moscow for a short period in the past ... or am I mistaken?

Can;t see this route happening at all now. Very cleverly, this whole sorry episode shows MAN in a good light. It means that they can show the rest of us that they have made attempts to get a service to HKG, but that it is fraught with difficulties...so hey-ho tose passngers will just have to keep filling up those BA shuttles to London, and we know how much MAplc love to keep BA happy!

SU did used to fly sporadically in to MAN from Leningrad and Moscow in the mid 90s - weekly I believe.

Maybe China Southern might give MAN a look in..?

Doesn't appear in booking systems yet?

SVO to MAN v.v is the problem, not MAN itself.

It's to do with 5th freedom rites and who can operate the route. Word is that another operator who has the rites to/from SVO and has never actually flown the route has lodged an objection:mad: . Until that is sorted the SVO-MAN sector can not operate.

HKG to SVO won't generate enough revenue to be viable on it's own and as the HKG-MAN service was temporarily suspended, something like 5 years ago, it was deemed a good idea to restart it and combine the two.

Everything is in place in both airports SVO and MAN and the flight could operate tomorrow, shame.:{

Looks like an April start, heard there is a problem with the seating on their new Airbus which is operating the route.
It's a def starter.....not another CX bollocks up

From Ethiad customer services (when I enquired how to book the route)

''Unfortunately the launch of our Manchester service has had to be delayed, as we still await confirmation of aircraft delivery dates from the manufacturers. As soon as we receive this information, we will publish the schedule and fares, which will be posted on our website. Although we do not yet have a confirmed date, the latest information I have is that it is likely to be some time after May 2006.

I apologise for any inconvenience this may cause. In the meantime, we offer a service via Heathrow, in conjunction with our code-share partner bmi''

Oh dear....it's all going wrong for MAN this week!

What MAN really needs is some African services and more lo-cos...come on EZY and FR...come and grab some of these vacant BA slots!

SVO to MAN v.v is the problem, not MAN itself.
It's to do with 5th freedom rites and who can operate the route. Word is that another operator who has the rites to/from SVO and has never actually flown the route has lodged an objection:mad: . Until that is sorted the SVO-MAN sector can not operate.

Entirely coincidental I'm sure, but BA were due to start MAN-SVO a couple of times per week in the late 90s, it even appearing in their timetable. However it never actually started. Maybe they plan to start operating the route with 145s (how many tech stops would that take?):eek:

BA being a oneworld partner have no objections to CX operating the route, the problem is alleged to be BMI.:mad:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was working on the ramp last night and could not believe how busy EGCC is now especially around the 17:00 - 19:00 mark. It looks like a summers day with all the Jet2s, Baby's etc taxiing in and out. I'm beginning to wonder what the summer is going to be like.

The 8 years I've been there, I've never known it so busy.

Anyone got any hard figures to compare with last year

GB are looking at alternative destinations and heard from a good source that SVO has been mentioned. Kid you not.

Regret to have to say that today is the last day for the Manchester/Stansted service. It would appear that the presence of Air Berlin on the route has been too strong for them.

Scottie Dog

GB are looking at alternative destinations and heard from a good source that SVO has been mentioned. Kid you not.


Well great but how does that fit with the plan to go loco?
Moscow ('twould be DME not SVO for BA) is a business oriented destination not really leisure.
If you're taking out the C Class seats, there's not much point doing MAN to Moscow.
Will someone not do this route? Money to be made - really.
By the way, as far as I know by asking people in Moscow, the objector is Transaero.:*

Exactly, who knows? Thats rumours for ya. They still not absolutely sure that club europe is being scrapped at GB MAN.

I understand all is not well at MAPlc.The Dec/Jan pax figures were below expectations. The '' shareholders'' are asking questions and the answer was
''Liverpool,Leeds and Finningly are all begining to to have an impact''.

A further question was raised as to why the airport still hav'nt secured RYR/EZY after it was given TOP priority to see a far larger LOCO presence..... apparently there was no ''decent'' answer .........

So having spent god knows how much on a 2nd runway, the "TOP" priority of MAPLC is to steal the best customer of an airport a few miles down the road that is obviously more than adequately serving the North West market for certain routes. Unbelievable. Why don't they accept the fact that people across the North have other alternatives now for low cost services and MAN will not have the sort of mononoply on these flights as it historically has had with charter. People will still travel over to MAN for long-haul and the like, so shouldn't growing this side of its business be "top" priortiy instead of trying to eliminate successful businesses in Leeds, L'Pool and Donny?

loco

Was speaking to some GT cbin crew today and hey had also heard that GT were possibly looking at a twice weekly MAN to Moscow service. I asked them if they were going lo-co and they said it was nonsense and that C cabin was staying on their routes.

Sounds like they;d need anoter aircraft at MAN in order to operate another service to Moscow though surely?

Was speaking to some GT cbin crew today and hey had also heard that GT were possibly looking at a twice weekly MAN to Moscow service. I asked them if they were going lo-co and they said it was nonsense and that C cabin was staying on their routes.
Sounds like they;d need anoter aircraft at MAN in order to operate another service to Moscow though surely?


Nah - twice weekly won't work. Would really need to be 4-5 times to pick up most of the business traffic.
To the astonishment of some airlines, us passengers won't delay our (particularly return) trips by a couple of days to wait for a non stop flight.
If they're keeping the C Cabin great - just need some C routes and Moscow is a classic.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, MAplc won't be satisfied until they have the lot, this is the same Airport that years ago knocked back Easyjet, and now would do anything they can to rip the backbone out of an airport that has thrived on the lo-co ticket over the last few years.

I reckon we'll see some kind of EZY or FR presence at MAN by the summer, I just have a sneaky feeling that something is in the pipeline!

I reckon the following would do well:

Ryanair
Gdansk
Friedericshafen
Oslo
Tampere
Charleroi

Easyjet
Barcelona
Lisbon
Milan
Berlin
Newcastle
Olbia

Gaybloke
I'll not take your bait, I'am off out for a pint.:ok:

Any new route to Moscow is likely to come at the expense of AGP.

No problem with that. Just a 'me too' route.
Why do airlines jump into the most competitive routes imaginable where people will change carrier for the sake of saving 50p - where's the commercial sense in that?
Part of the Ryanair success is not just the marketing genius but also the fact that they put on truely innovative routes with virtually no competition - can you imagine Ryanair with all their business acumen jumping into Manchester - Alicante or Gatwick to Malaga?

A couple of years back MAN enjoyed unexpectedly quick growth when Baby and then Jet2 did better than expected, or "budgetted" for.
So at the next business plan stage, rather than acknowledge that they'd had two years' growth in one year, and that therefore the next year's growth would be minimal, the Board decided "ey up Geoff, we'll have more of that, dornt ya knor lad" without even removing their cloth caps or putting down their egg pies or finishing their pints of mild served in glasses with handles.
Geoff Muirhead brushed the crumbs off his C&A suit and turned to John Spooner and said "way ay lad, tha can manage that, cahnt tha?"
The Reverend John Spooner turned to his frazzled disciples and spake "my team, thy will do as the fat man sayeth, thy will worketh 25 hrs a day, 8 days a week, and of course thy will do it for fewer sheckles than last year."
Amen.
Quelle surprise, whoever wrote the business plan, with the benefit of knowing what he was talking about, was correct. Doh.

Thank heavans for that, only very marginal growth in prospect --- Hoorahhhhhh!!! Why so happy? Have you seen the state of the airfield recently? MAplc are now reaping the rewards of very poor operational decisions in past years from what was a totally inept operations department ( now fixed I hope). It was considered better to spend millions on re-furbishment of terminals to the detriment of the airfield infrastructure. which you will see is breaking apart all over the place. Steel plates here, steel plates there, the hot-pour team on 24 hour standby (have to order a bigger boiler). Even the 'New' bits are breaking up. I hear Link Delta crossing point will have to be completely dug-up again in the not too distant future !
Putting it bluntly, the airfield couldn't cope with any increase in movements because their isn't the capacity to cope with it. You can regularly see a queue of INBOUND traffic waiting patiently on taxiways for either their stand to be vacated, or just can't get near a stand because of taxiway congestion.
The other morning we landed and had to wait 19 minutes before being gated, and then it was onto a bus !!!
When BA City Express ( or Connect now) cut back thier services wholesale, I reckon this 'Saved' the airport from a totally embarasing situation of not being able to cope with regular traffic levels at certain times of the day.
Until proper re-investments come on line, and more Peak-time slots can be offered, Manchester may be approaching its growth limit. Shame really when it definitely used to be top of the league for forward planning. The " Fat Controller " has a lot to answer for !! :{
P.S. The Cargo manager seems to be doing an excellent job. Heard the other day that Air China Cargo are to start in July 3 x weekly to PVG, and MNG Cargo 3 x weekly to IST by the end of March :ok: All we need now is a 'Johnson Air Cargo ' or African Int. DC-8 service and I'd start to emerge from my depression. :) :) :)

Don't always agree with what you have to say Adola69, but on this occasion I support your comments whole-heartedly.

Whilst I appreciate that, from a management perspective, there will always be a chicken-and-egg situation when it comes to development (will we won't we) there appears to have been too long a period when certain work has beome overdue.

The classic example is the nightmare that has existed for so long with the taxiway around the end of pier C. We all realise that something has need to be done on a permenant basis to make this a dual taxiway, rather than the bottleneck that it is at the moment and yet the airport has refused to put it's money into the project.

I am sure that there are those who will say that 'because I work outside of the airport and direct industry, I do not know what I am talking about', and that is possibly true; however I do keep my ear to the ground and listen to what is going on and I am sure that the general consensus is that the airport's upper echelon has lost the plot.:hmm:

By the way, I have also heard the same with regards to Air China and MNG - at least, as yoiu say, cargo seem to be doing ok.:ok:

Scottie Dog

I`m sure CCW will be very happy to read your comments re cargo

G-I-B

BA being a oneworld partner have no objections to CX operating the route, the problem is alleged to be BMI.:mad:


but if the Russians don't allow bmi to fly from London to Moscow (I believe they only have BA and Virgin designated), even though the UK Govt said bmi can fly, then why should they be happy about a Russian carrier doing something that they aren't allowed too, ie codeshare on fifths???

I can only assume that that is the problem.

And I find it funny that an employee of MAN should be allowed to have a go at bmi when they have been a constant at the airport through LHR, longhaul, regional and BMI baby flights. You wouldn't find them doing the same if it were BA or Virgin.......... :hmm:

Apparently GB are looking at a MAN Moscow route!

I understand all is not well at MAPlc.The Dec/Jan pax figures were below expectations. The '' shareholders'' are asking questions and the answer was
''Liverpool,Leeds and Finningly are all begining to to have an impact''.
A further question was raised as to why the airport still hav'nt secured RYR/EZY after it was given TOP priority to see a far larger LOCO presence..... apparently there was no ''decent'' answer .........
Well those questions must have been asked because my spies tell me that the Reverend Spooner is no longer preaching to the unhappy souls in Olympic House. He's been told by the fat Archbishop to take his cassock elsewhere....
Obviously I don't know why he's gone, but I expect it's because the figures are down, as predicted by This Charming Man and explained by myself (the Board wanting the same growth twice over). Let me take a moment to reflect on the pluses and minuses of his tenure at MA:
Plus:
Reduced costs
Reduced charges
Increased traffic
Increased profit
Formalised a lot of adhoc agreements with the unions into policies
Appeared to care about his staff, genuinely
Recruited some good senior managers (shame they were all white middle-class men)
Attracted Baby and Jet2, with RYR growth and EZY arrival imminent
Minus:
Most of the costs he reduced were the wages of the lowest paid staff, both directly within MA and indirectly within the service partners
Seemed to expect his staff to work 25hr days like he does, forgetting they're still married to their partners, they still like to see their kids more often than just in McDonalds on a Saturday morning, and that though he may have a brain the size of a planet, they haven't nor would they want to
Wouldn't listen to advice from his staff, preferring just to make a decision and stick to it, even when wrong
Sadly, the airport could be further ahead in traffic and profit than it is now, if the Board hadn't wasted the 8 years prior to the Reverend (93-01) indulging the fat controller, who presided over waste, stagnation, competitor growth, indecision, and stop-startism, and failed to tackle any major issues properly. Instead he pushed for the rape of the countryside with the white elephant of R2, when the growth and profit could have come from better pricing to make the off-peaks more attractive and increase asset use at low marginal cost.
On reflection I'm not sad to see the Reverend go, but I wish him well. His heart was in the right place, he just didn't keep everyone else on board with him. Shame the fat one isn't going too though, but is letting Rev carry the can when he's implicit in the problem too.

Momentary Lapse
I do wish you woundn't sit on the fence and say what you think !

I'll try to be more forthright in future ;)

EZY arrival at MAN is 'imminent'...?? Says who?!

It has been suggested in another thread that EZY could be starting services from Manchester 'imminently'....

Is there any truth to this rumour?

These are interesting times to say the least.
My only interest in this is that my business relies on Manchester Airport. I'm in no way connected to the airport or aviation business but I need the flights to get me and my people to where we need to be - otherwise we'll have to relocate to London.
I can't help but agree with some of the comments made - I suspect that Mr Spooner (if he has gone? - rumour) has been made the scapegoat for some historic poor decisions - the man who made them still sits immune (or got promoted before he got found out). However, the decision to build Runway 2 was a brave and foresighted one - one our children will thank us for.
Some really tough strategic decisions will need to be taken over the next couple of years - Terminal 1 will need to be replaced in the next 10 years and in doing so, sort out the mess of an apron layout that causes the congestion that will only get worse.
How is that going to be funded?
And this against a backdrop of downward pressure on costs and margins.
I have to say the previously unthinkable will have to be thunk....to sell it off!!
And in terms of routes - EasyJet pplleeease! lot's of people I know are just waiting for EasyJet into Manch.

I'm sure EZY will come eventually. Whoever's left at MAN will be trying hard to get them, if only cos the shareholders want more pax.

Keeps them in beer n sandwiches, not to mention whippet food and cloth caps.

It has been suggested in another thread that EZY could be starting services from Manchester 'imminently'....
Is there any truth to this rumour?

The only truth in this rumour is that it's been banded about year after year....to a point of complete boredom.:uhoh: Are there any other rumours out there??

But clearly the effort to attract a substantial low cost airline hasn't worked. Instead MAN has ended up wasting its time concentrating on attracting low cost low revenue short haul flights when in reality it has the assets to expand long haul which boosts pax and revenue. That is the area which local rival airports cannot currently compete with MAN on.

After today I feel a shift in strategy is on the way.

Interesting view. Geoff and his cronies never liked locos anyway. They positively discouraged them before the 2001 restructure. Bill Savage was Bus Dev director then and he hated them.

But the bonus of any shorthaul, especially locos, is that for one peak departure they get 2-3 off-peak ones which makes better use of the facilities when they're quiet. With long haul you don't get that, so you have to make sure the dep is off-peak in the first place. Eastbound traffic likes am arr/deps. Westbounds may be better.

The fact remains though that Rev Spooner had a good idea how to run and grow an airport. Geoff hasn't a clue how to run a business. What he does well is sucking up to politicians and eating biscuits.

I think looking back on MAN's history, the period when mistakes were made and problems were embedded coincides with Geoff's tenure as CX of MAN. Lots of people would agree with me.

eeh by gum, I think thas reete thar lad......
But how does one measure how good the management actually is..?
We could have superb management or a bunch of shopkeepers who also sell tripe running the place ......
I just get this feeling that they dont actully know how good the place could be if they "really" knew what they were about. They come across as down trodden Northerners from a Victorian era
get real guys...!
Stuff BOH, and that place on the Humber, concentrate on the core assets !
Personally re Spoony 8/10 not bad given constraints of GM OK but not brilliant !
They could always have a whip round down at the greyhound track and buy BAA...!

Well said Bagso.

To be fair to the shareholders there are now fewer tripesellers and some proper non exec directors from other real world companies, but they only came as a condition of the banks that were lending MAPLC all the money to buy EMA and BOH. They said if you're spending all our money we want a competent Board. Who can blame them?

Trouble is too many decisions now are purely financial, particularly Geoff's stop-startism. You can't run a long term infrastructure heavy business with such short term planning. Pah! Planning? Guesswork more like. Knee jerk reactionism.

BTW - Geoff recruited Spooner in 2001. Given the positive work he has done, to sack him for this mistake (ie not delivering the Board's pie-in-the-sky target) reflects badly on Geoff doesn't it? Despite the fact that Spooner did a better job than Geoff ever could. And not forgetting that all the main figures are up on last year, not down. Just not up enough. I bet Geoff still gets his customary massive pay rise though, so all's well in cloud cuckoo land.

Don't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry...

Does anyone know if there are to be any improvements in retail and catering facilities at T1, in readiness for the summer season? The T1 departure lounge looks decidedly shabby, and let;s face it, the range of shops is just terrible.

The floor down the piers could do with being replaced, too. I counted six different carpet patterns on a recent wander from gate 26 to the immigration hall, donlt even get me started on that terrible swimming pool blue floor there, either.

The T1 baggage hall is looking smart though.

Anither area that needs drastic upgrade is the T1 public arrivals area. It's dark, smell, the information desk is hidden away, the burger king smells and it needs some decnt lighting around the taxi rank.

But all of that is papering over the cracks - T1 is over the hill ..a lumbering old hulk that has had various extensions and lean tos 'nailed on' over the years. It certainly is grim up North when you arrive into this hole.

Agree with the comments on GM by the way - don't I remember some Strategic MasterPlan or some sort being hyped around the local media around the T2 opening that forecast 30M pax pa by 2005 ???- presumeably GM at this stage was in a senior management role and therefore signed up to this fanciful prediction.
He therefore has missed his target by 8M pax.....but still got the bonuses:confused:

And not forgetting that all the main figures are up on last year, not down. ??????????????????

Jan 2005 compared to Jan 2006 ??????????

Flooring on 'C' Pier is supposedly getting re-done shortly ready for the influx of summer pax and the T1 Arrivals Hall Landside will also be done up in a similar design to the newer refurbished baggage hall. Personally, I don't think that T1 as a whole is all that bad. The choice of facilities could do with being upgraded but let's face it, people come to MAN to get on a plane not to do their shopping! 'B' Pier definately needs sorting out as this is very outdated and the splitting of arriving and departing pax makes things a little messy down there. Overall though T1 is a much nicer terminal to work in and fly from than the other 2. And the airport has won Best UK Airport over the past countless years, so things can't be all that bad. Passenger feedback across all three terminals is also very good. Come on guys, we should be proud of the acheivements of our local airport over the past few years, not slating it. Sure, upgrades are constantly needed and new services have to be attracted to keep the airport competitive. It will all come in time.

EGCC4284
A/c movements were DOWN 4pc for Jan :eek:
watp,iktch

Overall though T1 is a much nicer terminal to work in and fly from than the other 2.

This is probably 'cumfy old shoes' syndrome. It feels familiar and comfortable and this blinds the wearer to the shortcomings whilst others are thinking 'scruffy sod'. It is after all the 'old airport'. When you see as many airports round Europe as I do, it's easy to realise that it's looking shabby and old fashioned by comparison.
(Thinks... exactly the same probably applies to LHR T2 - v. similar).

In our T1 the concourses (landside and airside) aren't bad, if not badly laid out.
Check in areas are confusing and often congested, the two piers are complete jokes - cheap and scruffy and the whole arrivals area looks like a set from Life on Mars 'the sequel' circa 1981.
For me, embarrassing to bring visitors to our area through T1: first impressions and all that. Not so T2 T3.

From E-TID TODAY

''John Spooner has resigned as managing director of Manchester Airport after five years in the role. His departure will see group commercial director Rowena Burns take responsibility for commercial strategy, marketing and all income streams across the Manchester Airports Group, and Andrew Cornish oversee the entire operation of Manchester Airport as managing director, MA services and operations.''

From a passenger point of view certain parts of T1 are disgusting! Take for example arriving to the terminal through that hideous 1970's multi-storey car park....knock it down or at least have the decency to clad the bugger! Whoever planned it wants shooting - ugly filthy and nasty to use.
As for check-in, functional....at least those bloody chandeliers have gone in the main concourse! The departure lounge is ok, but what really lets it down is the cleanliness - have those roof drape things gone yet- last time I saw them they were filthy....really sets off the place...not.
Arrivals...again, functional if not tired. T2 is ok but not exactly in the same league as Munich, Copenhagen and the like. T3 is about the best, less shell suits :ouch:

Terminal 1 is hideous, I won't use it unless I really have to, i.e. no other airport has the destination. I find the arrivals experience horrid and embarassing. T2 is OK in that it's spacious, but what was the design ethic, total minimalism? It's like they forgot to design the interior once you go airside, one bar, a Starbucks and little more. It is the most characterless building I know of. T3 isn't bad to be honest.
MAN was a real winner, the SAS Radisson, the Skywalks etc, but seems to have lost a bit of direction.
The airfield bottleneck at Pier C just has to go, and it would be nice if the terminals had shops that weren't so downmarket.

The problem with the whole T1 issue though is what to do about it. As pointed out by VHF Flyer, it is the old airport and although 'taping up' certain areas is not a long term solution, what more can be done? Short of knocking down the whole building and starting again, I really can't think of anything. Many would argue that this is the solution but how can any significant reconstruction work be done effectively without major disruption? T1 is, after all, the busiest terminal. Even during the quieter winter months and done in small stages, it would still be chaos. I agree about the state of the car park and also the piers which are very outdated and in need of, well, something! As i've previously mentioned, the T1 Arrivals Hall will shortly be getting upgraded and the Baggage Hall down there looks much smarter now. From my point of view at least, I really don't think that the public concourse or the departures lounge are all that bad. And don't forget, the majority of passengers are usually too busy worrying about missing their flight or whether they're sat together on the plane to notice the state of the carpet or how dirty the drapes are. I agree that MAN (particularly T1) is not up to scratch with many other major European airports but it has been voted as Best U.K Airport by the travelling public year after year, so it must be damn sight better than it's U.K counterparts surely? Personally, I like the T1 experience. It's got more of a buzz about it than the ridiculously quiet T2 and the somewhat claustrophobic T3.

Fly ZB
You're right, the problem is what to do about it.

The historic layout of the terminal doesn't make sense and causes problems on the airfield with bottlenecks and the like.

Clearly things on a grand scale don't happen overnight - my own view is that in 10 years time a new T1 will be need to be on the ground and the time to start thinking about how that will happen is now.

It is a busy terminal but with the soon to happen expension of T2, with plenty of scope to expand further and the scope to expand T3, an opportunity will then exist to demolish T1 and fix all of the problems in one go.
Epic project though and will cost plenty. How to fund it is the question?

'Momentary Lapse' - I must take issue with two remarks made in your posting of 13 February timed at 15:12.

Firstly, in relation to past staff recruitment you write: "shame they were all white middle class men." Do you not see that this remark is both racist and sexist? It is completely unacceptable. If you have evidence that a better qualified candidate for a post was overlooked on the grounds of gender or skin colour then present it here. However, if the best qualified candidates were actually selected for the post(s) then why does it matter whether they are white, male or 'middle-class' (whatever that means these days). I put it to you that qualifications, aptitude and experience are the important factors in recruitment, not the three criteria you mention. It may have escaped your notice that approximately 90% of males in Britain are white; therefore they will comprise the largest part of the workforce. The opposite is the case in many other countries. Whatever the demographics, all potential employees have the right to be selected based on their suitability for the job, not upon narrow objectives imposed by a racist or sexist agenda. I will defend the right of ALL - including white males - to be employed according to their skills and aptitude alone.

On a quite different matter, you write about "rape of the countryside with the white elephant of R2." Firstly, may I suggest that you take a walk along the public footpath which parallels Runway 24L/06R on the South-Side. Look closely. What you will find is a remarkable piece of land now protected from the encroachment by the general public which is teeming with wildlife. The fenced-off area has become a nature reserve in it's own right (partly due to MAplc investment, by the way). I am not well-informed as a naturalist, but friends advise me that many species thrive on this land which are threatened elsewhere due to loss of hedgerows and encroachment by man. Take a good look and compare this land with the business parks, new roads and car parks which lie outside the airport boundary. Just where is the "rape of the countryside" again?

Within the same remark above you refer to R2 as a "white elephant". Again, I beg to differ. Note that throughout 2005 MAN's runway capacity was fully-allocated for long periods of the day, especially during Summer months. MAN has been able to accept business which could never have been available to the region in the days of a single-runway operation. This has been massively positive for employment and economic development in the North-West. I am the first to acknowledge that MAN is facing a downturn in traffic for 2006 (with oil at $60-$70bbl we won't be alone), but not to the extent that single runway ops would meet demand at crucial periods of the day. And if you really want to know what R2 has done for the environment, consider this rarely mentioned gem: the availability of twin-runway ops at MAN has MASSIVELY reduced air-holding for inbound traffic. Prior to R2 it was not unusual to have 12 inbound airliners at any given moment flying race-track patterns at BOLIN (remember BOLIN?) and DAYNE during the 0700-1000 and 1700-1900 periods; nowadays extended air-holding is extremely rare on a routine basis. Air-holding for MAN is now at a fraction of past levels, save for the inevitable low-vis days. So next time the 'greens' call R2 a "rape of the countryside" tell them about the huge reduction in air-holding. 10 minutes less fuel burned per peak-time inbound. Less waiting time at the holding point per outbound. Now THAT'S a positive contribution to the environment.

Cheers, SHED.

After the bad news about Cathay having to postphoned the Hong Kong service, I'm pleased to be able to report that the Etihad service to Abu Dhabi is now showing as being on sale for travel commencing 27th March.

Some positive news at last.

Scottie Dog
:ok:

At last, some good news. I presume this is going to be operated by a 330? - does anyone know what terminal they are operating from?

Thanks

Etihad to operate from T1, who is doing the handling for them?
Emirates are due to move over to T2 at the end of March.

I hear tell that Etihad are planning to start with 330s, then change to 777s during the summer at some point.

when will manchester and the other airports in the group publish thier masterplans up to 2030? I note NottinghamEMA have already done this...

MAN's is currently being drafted. Had a look thru it recently and presume it'll be released for consultation in the next few months.

Hopefully SAS will be given the ground handling contract for EY, as we hold the UK rights for their ground handling and check it in at LHR. If this is the case, SAS will deal with the passenger handling side of things with Ringway given the baggage handling contract.

Thanks for that - Got some client to book on this flight at easter - thanks for the heads up, got in before anyone else had a chance!

STOP!

Sit down and absorb.

There is a tendency for this thread to run off the rails with innuendo and snide remarks, not to mention racism. ALL are offensive and not going to be tolerated. We have rules on PPRuNe you all signed to uphold. We expect you to do that. If you cannot do that then be prepared to accept that we have the wherewithall to spoil your enjoyment of PPRuNe for as long as we want. No threat. Just a fact.

Please get this thread back on track and avoid us mods at all cost. ;) Just enjoy PPRuNe it doesn't require much to do that.

PPP

My apologies to both the mods and to Shed on a Pole. May I clarify?

1 White middle class men - merely an observation that the Rev Spooner seemed to employ and promote almost exclusively white middle age middle class men to his senior management team (I did not mean the whole workforce, which is clearly diverse, and I regret not making that distinction clear). This after several years of apparent discrimination against men in particular by the previous management culture who were more "PC" about gender and race. I do not seek to be sexist or racist and regret it if anyone reads my post as such. What I was thinking (but didn't say...) was that in a business that by definition touches all corners of the world, it is a shame that he limited his senior management team (and by extension his company's culture and point of view) to such a narrow slice of society. I have heard him on more than one occasion preaching about diversity, equality etc. and looked round the audience to see a sea of white male faces in grey suits. You'd be surprised to know my gender and race, which is not relevant to this thread, but it disappoints me to see such a narrowly-sourced pool of management. What would a visitor from for instance an Asian or Japanese airline think when he or she met the management team?

2 Bollin Valley - I saw the valley before, during and after construction. I am well aware that MA has planted 6 new trees for every 1 felled, installed bat boxes etc. and sprayed cash all around. However I would reply that they could have improved the environment in that area (more trees, bat boxes, fencing etc.) without dropping thousands of tonnes of concrete on it first. Now that would be altruistic...

3 Holding patterns - I know nothing about aircraft ops in the air so defer to your knowledge there. I am pleased to have learned something new today and will no doubt use it next time someone tries the green argument on me in the pub!

I was merely expressing my view. My sincere apologies if anyone took my comments in a way that was not intended.

:confused: Momentary Lapse Wrote :- Quote - 2 Bollin Valley - I saw the valley before, during and after construction. I am well aware that MA has planted 6 new trees for every 1 felled, installed bat boxes etc. and sprayed cash all around. However I would reply that they could have improved the environment in that area (more trees, bat boxes, fencing etc.) without dropping thousands of tonnes of concrete on it first. - Un-quote.
Please forgive what may seem my total lack of understanding on this, but what would your solution be to such a problem should any other Airfield wish to accomadate an increase in air travel being demanded and thus increasing aircraft movements, which at some point will exceed the capacity of the only runway they have, BEFORE that point is reached?
I'm NOT having a go at you here ( Honest), but I'd just like to know what alternatives you have, when an Airport company want to grow a business because the growth is there, and the operators and public almost demand that they be accomadated, WITHOUT expanding the amount of Concrete at their disposal, be it Parking areas, Taxiways or Runways ?
I'm nearly always having a pop at Manchester these days for their ' Lack of Forsight' they have appeared to display over the last ten or so years, (compared to the good old days) in their "advance of demand planning and building". The ONLY exception to this has been Runway 2, which was probably on the drawing boards a long while back, and it has been a tremendous success.
How many Bat boxes has any of us put up? Nil I bet. How many Bat boxes would have been put up - again Nil. Would the places that Bats lived previously have now fallen down - I don't know? Are the the bats better off ? - you'd better ask them, but I would guess that yes they are! :D
All I'm asking is, what would your alternative be, that would enable an Aiport like Manchester to grow and to be able to handle 20 - 40 million passengers annually, without encroaching on green fields, trees, badgers, moles,rabbits, bats, newts, wood-lice, midges, and those little bas*** corn-flies that bite me !!
Green? - I've never seen Manchester airport look greener:ok:
Tin-hat is on, ready to receive incomming !!:eek:

Hi Momentary Lapse,

Firstly, thankyou for your response to my posting and I do accept that you intend no offence. Likewise, I too intend no offence to any contributor or reader of this board.

Your new post does , however, put to us a new question: "What would a visitor from for instance an Asian or Japanese airline think when he or she met the management [of Manchester Airport]." Please permit me to answer this.

If you represented a British airline and made a business trip to meet executives of Narita, Haneda and Kansai Airports, would you be offended to discover that they are managed by Japanese people? Is it shocking that JAL and All Nippon are managed by Japanese people? Would you decide not to operate there because none of their senior executive teams are British? Likewise, is it an insult that Rome Airport is managed by Italians or Sao Paolo by Brazilians?

If you accept that the above is entirely proper and to be expected then please recognise that UK airports are in no way exhibiting prejudice by employing British citizens (regardless of skin colour etc) in key roles. It is the natural state of affairs. No airline is offended by finding any business to be run by the nationals of it's home country, and few would suggest that any prejudice is implied by this.

Manchester Airport has worked very hard to promote a culture of equality. Please do not rush to denigrate that with expectations which would not reasonably be asked of any business in any country. MAN's equal opportunities record is outstanding in comparison to most businesses worldwide.

Finally - and I don't mean to nit-pick here - when you say "an Asian OR Japanese airline" ... well I'm sure you realise that Japanese people are Asians. But I think I take your point.

To close, I simply ask you to recognise and compliment MAplc for their efforts in promoting equal opportunities and not try to publicly portray them as a 'rogue company' in this respect. I have seen no evidence to suggest that they deserve a "guilt trip" with regard to their equal opportunities record. Their heart is in the right place. Remember that this board is widely read, and "mud sticks."

Finally, I thank moderator 'PPRUNE Pop' for his comments. I hope that my defence of MAplc within this posting falls within your approved guidelines; if not, please delete it. My aim is simply to refute with detailed reasoning any suggestion that Manchester Airport is operated in a racist or otherwise inequitable manner.

All the best. SHED.

Does anybody know anything about Rowena Burns...?

Apparently she has been at the airport a number of years, so appears to be an internal appointment.

Is this perm' or temporary cover ?

Can we expect sombody to get a good handbagging...!

RB was Group Strategy Director, so it's a widening of an existing role rather than an internal promotion. Prior to this she was an advisor to the council committee that oversaw the airport in the 90s.

Rumour has it that she was put in place to 'keep an eye on' GM by the shareholders who don't like/trust him. Allegedly. I couldn't possibly comment. :)

The reorg seems to leave some fairly substantial gaps in the management structure at the moment, so watch this space...Olympic House must be a very interesting place to work at the moment!

Shed

Thankyou for your comments. I concur with you that you would expect to see nationals running their own companies. My point was I think that the Rev Spooner was preaching a message about ethnic and gender balance that he wasn't demonstrating with his behaviour when recruiting his senior team.

MA has targets to meet for gender, ethnicity and disability as a % of the workforce. Yet MA's senior management team is exclusively white, middle aged, middle class, able bodied and I think all male. Message versus behaviour?

Adola69: Re R2 - I fell for the Yes to R2 rhetoric at the time and felt guilty and ashamed some years later when I saw the concreting of the countryside. The argument above is based on the assumption that growth is good. I question its goodness as the price was for me too high. MA could have done all the bat box and tree planting thing without the runway being built. I believe that with more imaginative pricing to discourage small aircraft especially in the peak, and to encourage more off peak activity, throughput could be massively increased with a single runway (see LGW with one runway, higher throughput, due to larger a/c and better peak spreading). Spooner and McDermott have started to do this with great success. Shame the Fat Controller couldn't have been more imaginative during his period of presiding over waste and stagnation.

Coasthugger: Finally Ms Burns. Interesting allegation. You may think so but I couldn't possibly comment. ;)

Hi Momentary Lapse,

Thankyou for your comments. BUT ... once again, despite saying you agree with comments to the contrary, you proceed to repeat your allegation that MAplc is operating in a racist and sexist manner, "Message versus behaviour," you conclude. May I say that it is your right to hold this opinion if you so wish, but if you intend to keep repeating this allegation in public then I urge you to present EVIDENCE that MAplc has promoted an unsuitable individual ahead of a better qualified candidate on the grounds of gender or race. If you have no such evidence then you should withdraw your allegation.

I note also that you insist on using titles such as "Reverend Spooner" and "The Fat Controller." Do you really think this is called for? It is disrespectful and tells the readers more about you than those to whom you refer with contempt. Please note that I would not expect either JS or GM to recognise me if they met me, so I do not defend them on the grounds of personal friendship. I simply believe that all deserve a level of respect in a public forum which you seem unwilling to demonstrate.

In your section on Runway 2 we find a new throwaway comment. "Shame the Fat Controller couldn't have been more imaginative during his period of presiding over waste and stagnation." Leaving aside the insulting tone of this remark, have you not noticed that MAN is the 45th busiest airport in the World and 11th busiest in Europe based on ACI's 2004 figures? Did you not see the 22,742,219 passengers who used the airport during 2005? How about the 150,649 tonnes of cargo and 234,824 flight movements? There are many capital city airports both in Europe and worldwide who would welcome "waste and stagnation" like this.

If you feel guilty about the results of the R2 project that is a personal matter and I respect your view. However, I do not feel guilty. I celebrate the massive environmental boost represented by the reduction in air holding (discussed in earlier posting) and the proliferation of wildlife on the South side of the airport. I support efforts to encourage airlines to use off-peak runway slots where viable, but ultimately they must accept that their business travellers aim to work 9-5 days and will not depart at 1400 and return at 0200 for a business trip. So peak times will always be there, and that MAN was saturated at peak times prior to the opening of R2 is well documented elsewhere if you care to check. With regards to the MAplc team being urged to discourage certain business at peak times ... well I'm not sure they would see that as something they are employed to do! The expansion of air services from the region has brought many benefits and certain costs too; you clearly believe that the latter outweigh the former, others believe the opposite to be true. That is a subjective matter and we must all recognise that opinion on it will vary.

Finally, I always welcome reasoned debate, but may I urge you if you respond again to refrain from use of insulting titles for specified individuals, and to avoid unsupported use of slurs such as "rape of the countryside", "presiding over waste and stagnation", and yet again an attack on the racial and gender composition of MAplc's senior executive team. If you have evidence that they have rejected a candidate on grounds of race or gender, state your evidence. Otherwise withdraw your slur which you have now posted twice.

Thankyou for your understanding. SHED.

If you have evidence that they have rejected a candidate on grounds of race or gender, state your evidence.

Without wishing to be inflammatory, this presupposes that Momentary Lapse has detailed inside knowledge of the operations of the group which he/she may not have. The comment was simply that the existing management group is not diverse.

Counter to this I present exhibit A, Rowena Burns, Group Commercial Director.

On a mischevious note I know of 2 non-white persons who have joined MAG in relatively senior management positions and then left within a year...:confused:

Newly announced is a 3 times per week service, effective 2nd May, between Manchester and Angers in France.

Scottie Dog

Shed

I am not being racist or sexist. I am merely stating that the MA Group has set targets on MA and all the other subsidiaries to meet certain targets for ethnicity, gender and disability based on the %ages of the residents and thus potential workforce across Grtr Manchester. Fine. However, when Mr Spooner had the opportunity to recruit or replace almost his entire senior management team over a period of a few years, he failed to advance any of those targets. I don't doubt that all the people he employed are perfectly capable and may well be the best people for their respective roles, however Mr Spooner missed the opportunity to demonstrate his commitment to meeting the Group-wide targets. I agree though that it would have been inappropriate to employ a person who wasn't the best candidate just to meet the targets. That's the problem with targets. Mr Spooner should not have exhorted his staff to meet the targets when he didn't demonstrate that behaviour himself.

Please understand the important difference between Mr Spooner's MA, MAAS under David Teale, MA Group under Mr Muirhead and Ms Burns etc. My comments are specifically applicable to MA, not to the rest of the divisions or to MA Group.

Speaking of Ms Burns, she is not employed within MA but within MA Group and therefore not in Mr Spooner's division's control. I would state that other parts of the Group, particularly "Group" and MAAS, are somewhat more enthusiastic about those targets in particular, and indeed Group targets generally. Mr Spooner was always rather ambivalent (at best) about meeting "Group"'s objectives.

I call Mr Spooner the Reverend here in a satirical manner reflecting his verbal style to his staff. Those who have heard him speak may know what I mean. Mr Muirhead CBE is well known as the fat controller around the airport, on the grounds that he is a) well built and b) in charge of the place. A rather obvious epithet wouldn't you say? However I note your sensitivities and will try to behave in future posts ;) BTW I wouldn't dare give Ms Burns a nickname. In fact no-one does. There's power and respect for you!

Re waste and stagnation: If you plot the key indicators against time, you will probably see that they all go the wrong way during the second half of the 90s. Then they improve from 2001 onwards. For instance, profit per passenger, passenger growth % year on year, employees per passenger etc.

Let's leave it there eh?

Aer Aran have announced services from Manchester to Angers, in France.

Looks like French regional routes are really growing from Manchester.

Come on GRB! You're letting the side down! Take a look at the post above;)

Regards

Mike

So where do we post Manchester news then?!

What Auelad was refering to was the fact that I had already posted the announcement of the Aer Arann service in this thread at 1746 on Thursday 16th.;)

Scottie Dog

Time for Bed....zzzz

EGCC4284
A/c movements were DOWN 4pc for Jan :eek:
watp,iktch

Hi Chiglet

Slightly confused with your posting as I have just been looking at the (provisional) figures given on the CAA site for January.

These show monthly movements at 15819, up 0.5pc, and the yearly movements as 218069 which is an increase of 4pc.

Passengers figures are down for January by 0.2pc at 1331943, although the yearly figure is up 4.8pc at 22080993.

Certainly seems to be rather a difference between -4 and +0.5pc? :confused:

Scottie Dog

Going back to UFGBOY's 14 Feb posting, we are still waiting for someone to answer the question Was Spooner pushed or did he jump. The tone of the testemonial from Geoff M would suggest the latter, and the bit about spending more time with the family, although laudable ,sounds a bit hollow
Can someone with access to the MAN intranet tell us if anyone has hazarded a comment?
I think we should be told...

Apparently Geoff Muirhead sent an email to all MA Group staff, which someone has kindly forwarded on to me. It included the following comment:

John Spooner has been considering his future for some time and has decided to that now is an opportune time to leave MAG and pursue other interests outside the Group.

No "thanks" or "well done" from Geoff, so I'd say he was pushed.

At least one grammatical mistake too. Tut tut Mr PR man that probably wrote this.

Seems bit fishy to me

Eastern have withdrawn from the MAN - STN route

The good news is that the staff canteen is to stay open for another six months!!!!

Rgds Dr I

Monarch have put their winter 06/07 routes on sale

Includes new twice weekly MAN-ACE route

BCN dropped on Wednesdays for certain weeks over the winter

Would be good to see ZB start a three times a week Lisbon or Oporto, in light of NI's pull-out.

Just announced - effective 25th May double daily.

Scottie Dog

I guess Eastern will struggle on this one too?

As Eastern had some pretty good slots for its STN route, and a based aircraft, i'd have thought a 3*daily Newcastle route would do ok.

Also according to the AA website the BOS route will finish this year on 12/12/06 for its winter break, did it perform badly over xmas?

No flights between MAN and GIB on the system for next winter. Surely they can't be dropping this?

FlyGlobespan will operate Manchester- Cape Town

3x weekly starting winter 06!

Very good news!

I guess Eastern will struggle on this one too?
As Eastern had some pretty good slots for its STN route, and a based aircraft, i'd have thought a 3*daily Newcastle route would do ok.
Also according to the AA website the BOS route will finish this year on 12/12/06 for its winter break, did it perform badly over xmas?

That would have been my first reaction, but I am not too certain. I definitely think that they will operate another route - and possibly even more than one, but I have no thoughts as to what they might be.

Scottie Dog

AA Boston always has a break for the Miami, AA having their heads screwed on do the Miami to cater for the cruise market.

IIRC the Miami runs for just 12weeks.

I am confused! How is T3 going to operate this summer, especially in the mornings. As I see it, from 01/0606 the following will arrive at T3:

BA JFK
BD ORD
AA ORD
AA BOS
BD LAS/BGI/ANU/UVF

plus there'll be GT 320s already parked awaiting departure and several WW 737s too...anyone know who'll get gate priority and to which gates?

Are BD charters also to use T3?

I am confused! How is T3 going to operate this summer, especially in the mornings. As I see it, from 01/0606 the following will arrive at T3:

BA JFK
BD ORD
AA ORD
AA BOS
BD LAS/BGI/ANU/UVF

plus there'll be GT 320s already parked awaiting departure and several WW 737s too...anyone know who'll get gate priority and to which gates?

Are BD charters also to use T3?

We've been told that all Bmi baby/domestic's r comin over at end of march, followed by all bmi interntional's at beginning of June.

Don't know what ba are doing (maybe cutting back flights).

Not lookin forward to it :uhoh: :{

Does anyone know what Air Wales are doing about the MAN- Rennes new service? There is a timetable for it on the web-site, but you can no longer book it!!! I have friends already booked on it & was going to do the same. I did e-mail the airline a few days ago-but got no reply.:confused:

Hi guys

Just wondered if any of you have any names/info of private charter airlines that are based at Manchester.

cheers x

Northern Executive Aviation
watp,iktch

Zoom In at T3 arrivals has now closed down and will reopen as an Alpha retail outlet apparently. And the hairdressers next door is rumoured to be turning in to a sauna!!

Rumoured to be a Spar in place of Zoom. Would not surprise me if they took on the hairdressing unit also.

They better not get rid of the hairdressers.:{

They better not get rid of the hairdressers.:{

They are re-locating to Heald Green.

Northern Executive Aviation
watp,iktch


Do they actually have aircraft which can be chartered?

I thought they just managed aircraft for clients and they were no charterable private jets actually based at MAN.

AWR
Look at their website,easily locatable at "Ringway Reports" web site
watp,iktch

I see AB have reinstated Dusseldorf from Manchester
this summer on a twice daily basis.

Now bookable on the website.

(Forgive if this has been posted before - I couldnt
find anything in a quick search)

Air Berlins' Dusseldorf flghts are via Stansted. As are all the other German destinations except Hamburg and Paderborn

Hence the 3 hour flight time (taking into account time difference)

Thanks INITIAL for correcting me.

I did read it somewhere which made it sound
like a reinstatement - TAS I think?

MM

Are Etihad services from Manchester now bookable?

Have heard a rumour today that EK are looking at DXB - MAN - IAH with a CO codeshare! That'd be great if true!

AWR,
NEA got their AOC last week and have GMOOO on the books [LJ45]
watp,iktch

With all due respect, it would be nice if airlines were mentioned by name (not initials) on these forums. What are EK and FR ?

The following airlines have been mentioned on this thread with respect to Manchester services this year. Can anyone confirm these ? Dates, times, plane types etc ?

Atlas Blue
Meridiana
Sterling Blue
Air China Cargo
Alitalia

Not sure if I've missed this one, but where is the B767 coming from for the Globespan MAN-CPT operation?

Ref the Air Wales MAN-Rennes, got a mate who booked seats on this. He's had a phone call from them confirming the route will not be operating.

Mogget,

FR = Ryanair, while EK = Emirates

Air China Cargo will operate Shanghai-Beijing-Copenhagen-Manchester twice a week between April and August using a B744F.

Thanks for the translation, eggc :)

Thanks for the info regarding Air China Cargo, G-DALE. One down, four to go ;)

Norweigan Airlines to start MAN - Bergen twice weekly from 6th April. Flights will operate on Thursdays and Sundays.

Thur DY1340 Arr Manchester 20.15 Dep Manchester 20.45
Sun DY1342 Arr Manchester 14.30 Dep Manchester 15.00

MAN - AUH on EY now bookable in Amadeus

MOGGET:eek:

Alitalia already operate twice daily to Milan.

MM

More changes announced today.....

Several Senior Managers "leaving"

Have details, but dont want to post in public forum.

Major changes to responsibilities, some real surprises with people moving to MADL from MAG

In addition:
Ms RB is married to Director General of GMPTE!!!! Not very interesting pillow talk, but maybe a conflict of interests.

Some may say that J Sp was given Responsibility but no Authority - GM rules supreme and to the extreme.

If I was a shareholder i would be very concerned about how this airport is being run, especially as those in charge of Operations (with exception of Mike Faz) are new to this business.

Interesting reading here....
http://www.newsco.com/productsandservices/archive/nwbi/2006-02/deals

AWR,
NEA got their AOC last week and have GMOOO on the books [LJ45]
watp,iktch



Interesting. I knew they have G-MOOO knocking about, but wasn't sure they had a license to charter it, as I know they manage it for A.N Other.

Good looking aircraft.

FlyGlobespan will operate Manchester- Cape Town
3x weekly starting winter 06!

operating 767-300 with 24/160/60 config - can the 767 reach CPT without stopping? Is it better than the 332?

What will the Globespan 767 be doing on the other 4 days, can we expect another 1 or possibly more long haul routes?

Cant be doing the GLA-Sanford route as this is daily throughout November and needs a seperate aircraft

MOGGET:eek:

You have a problem with my username ? It is the name of a character in a trilogy of fantasy books that I read last year.

Anyway, thanks for the information regarding Alitalia. What aircraft do they use ?

Norwegian Airlines to start MAN - Bergen twice weekly from 6th April.

Aircraft types ?


I am sure that I also read somewhere that Wideroe were going to start flying to Manchester. Is this correct ?

Mogget

I didnt mean any offence in using the character
beside your name ,I just put it there for fun!!

Alitalia have used a variety of aircraft on their
route from the start.From ERJ145/A319/MD82
they currently use ERJ170'S.

Wideroe did operate to Bergen a couple (?) of
years ago but came under pressure from big
brother (SAS) and stopped.The loads were
if I remember good but SAS didnt like loosing
the connecting traffic!

Norwegian operate B733 or B734 I think.

Your

MM:ok:

So more changes at MA then?

In 2001 Mr Muirhead CBE said that the restructure wouldn't affect anyone. How many people were eventually made redundant?

In 2006 Mr Muirhead CBE says it's just a shuffle and it won't affect anyone. Is there an echo in here?

I don't know who's gone, though I'll find out, and will try to post what I know to be true.

In my view those who go will be those people associated with the following deviations from the grand plan:

1 failure to meet a (ridiculous) MA business plan target. Mr Spooner has gone already, probably partly for this one. More will follow. I have my mental list of who I expect to go.

2 failure to ensure harmonious working relationships between MA/MAAS and MA/MADL. Mr Spooner has gone already, probably partly for this one as well. Again, more will follow.

3 failure to deliver the new building work on time or at the right price. I've got a list of names for this too. Is the rumour true that the AVP will be selling tickets this summer for a go on the boating lake on the new apron? Or for a go on the new skateboard park with hair-raising gradients, on stand 100?

4 duplication of similar roles, especially Finance. Three finance directors anyone? At least one of the two that isn't Richard Pike will go, probably both.

And Mrs RB is married to someone at the GMPTE? Conflict of interest? No way. I'd say it's keeping it in the (City Council) family. Despite the relaxation to allow proper shareholders in, Mcr City Council still runs the show because its tentacles run deep and wide. Selling off a profitable monument to free-market capitalism to pay for a socialist dream? Very likely, I'd say, for the bearded lefties at Mcr City Hall. If the Spanish can buy BAA plc, anything's possible.

Some examples of the City's tentacles. They:

own 55% of the shares;

own 55% of the main ground lease, and 100% of some of the subsequent additional leases;

are the local planning authority;

are the recipient of 100% of the airport's business rates.

So just suppose the business was sold off for a fat profit, then the ground rent was found to be mysteriously undervalued and suddenly doubled or trebled or went up ten-fold? Oops, MCC gets the capital value, but all the subsequent years' profits still go to MCC. Nice work if you can get it.

And innocent people vote these people into power! :eek:

Watch this space.

I see om amother forum that Travelcity Direct 747s move to T2 this summer.

Assuming that I am right, I would like to ask a question. Do you ever see RAF VC10s or TriStar 500s at Manchester ? If so, do they just arrive unexpectedly, or are they scheduled visits ? One of my greatest wishes would be to film a VC10 at Manchester, so any information of this kind would be greatly appreciated.
The RAF aircraft usually make a quick stop in MAN due to weather diversions elsewhere.

In the summer one (sometimes two!) of the Portuguese L1011's (CS-TEB and CS-TMP) operate for the charter airlines who are short of aircraft. Hopefully they'll do the same this year! Always a great treat when one of those turns up :)

I see om amother forum that Travelcity Direct 747s move to T2 this summer.


TravelCityDirect 747s MOVE???

Nah, not havin that.:E

Biman look likely to start MAN Dhaka soon, ehy are apparently looking for accommodation and handling agents at MAN. There is even talk of 5th freedom to New York.

You'd be hard pushed to persuade anyone but the the most prudent pennypusher to fly Biman from MAN to anywhere.

I saw one of their A310s lining up at LHR today and they do not inspire level of service or comfort to anyone looking from the outside in.
An A310 is a small a/c to travel such a long way.

AWR

Try sitting on a BMED 320 from Heathrow to Almaty - then you will know what small is. OK the flight is via Ekaterinberg, but it's still like ~10 hours.

Oiler

You'd be hard pushed to persuade anyone but the the most prudent pennypusher to fly Biman from MAN to anywhere.

I think Biman are onto a winner here, we take loads of biman pax to LHR each week to connect, sensible move by them if they do start.

Does Biman mean they like both men and women?

Any more news on the mgmt changes? I've not heard anything from my contacts so I presume nothing is happening.

Maybe Mr Muirhead CBE has finally delivered a restructure quietly, calmly and efficiently, so he can retire a happy man. Maybe...

Not much more to say about the restructure

Clive Tilley - Marketing Dir gone
Alison Timulty - MADL Finance Dir gone

MA as was no longer exists, MA Ops and Services (MD Andrew Cornish) and MA Commercial (Rowena Burns). Both reporting to GM.

Planning & Environment (John Twigg) now part of MADL and Steve Warrener (ex MA Finance Director) now MADL Finance & Procurement. All major projects now reporting to J Tw where before they reported to JSp.

Mike Fazackerly moved up to cover all terminal ops, I believe Terminal GM positions are up for grabs.

Much more going on behind the scenes to sort out how it is going to work (or fail).

This is all common knowledge across MA following internal announcement last week.

GM retire - never!

Slight correction,
Planning and Environment has been split, Planning now part of MADL, Environment now part of MASO.

I'm told Andrew Holl (recently appointed by JSp) will remain as Ops Director, taking charge of Airfield, the Fire Service, Engineering and Environment.

No indication of the structure below these levels as yet though.

Anyone know which lounge Emirates will be using in T2 when they move from T1?

Cheers,
Rick

Biman look likely to start MAN Dhaka soon, ehy are apparently looking for accommodation and handling agents at MAN. There is even talk of 5th freedom to New York.

Well done Vuelo , looks like your contacts were right , i've heard the following

A DC10 to ops twice a week BG011/2 DAC-MAN-JFK-MAN-DAC
Starts Apr. Tue & Sat arr 1715 dep 1845 and returns Wed & Sat 1045/1215

:ok:
TCM

The dreaded threeheadedulcer eh?

I wonder which poor barsteward will have to sign that off at MAN?

Glad my 'ten' license has lapsed!!!!:eek:

Never thought we would get a sheduled DC10 again! whos next with a DC8 or DC6 ( please )

G-I-B

The logistics of this flight going in to T1 will be tricky.

How many transfer passengers will there be passing through MAN, and how many seats will be available for point-to-point MAN - DACJFK passengers?

I am assuming the Southern front will come in to its own!!

Greece Airways (Air Scotland) are setting up new office in Manchester.

Advertised in last weeks Job N West for Reservation staff, duty manager, ops etc.

Possibly more expansion to come ?

Well if they want to make some inroads in to ZB and the others' markets, they want to increase frequency to places like BCN to more than weekly!

Give them a break!, they have one aircraft at present based in Scotland and operated their 1st flight through Manchester on Friday.
Lets see what pans out over the next few weeks and then maybe comment
I hope they succeed as it`s a very competitive market and someone has put a lot of money in and peoples livelyhood are at stake

G-I-B

Has anyone heard about a possible new route from Manchester to Cairo with Egyptair? They stopped flying weekly to Luxor a few years ago as I remember, but heard today that a resumption may be on the cards. Anyone know anything?

Has anyone heard about a possible new route from Manchester to Cairo with Egyptair? They stopped flying weekly to Luxor a few years ago as I remember, but heard today that a resumption may be on the cards. Anyone know anything?

According to airliners.net, Singapore Airlines are changing their Singapore Service (currently MAN-SIN non-stop B772 x4 & MAN-ZRH-SIN x2 B744) to a daily non-stop service with a B772.

That's good news for MAN, and the loads are so big on the SQ at the moment that it seems pretty inevitable that SQ would go direct to SIN from MAN.

Larger Aircraft Arrive For Manchester - Highland Route


A larger aircraft providing 1,200 extra seats a month on Eastern Airways’ Manchester - Inverness route will be available from 26 March to meet demand from customers.

The full service regional airline will increase capacity by 34% from Manchester Airport with the introduction of a larger 50 seat Saab 2000 aircraft, which will also reduce journey times between the destinations.

Many blue chip companies have bases in the North of Scotland and both regions are linked by the finance, IT and service sector industries. Eastern Airways has operated the route, which offers day return journeys, since November 2003.

“This important service to Inverness has proved very popular from Manchester and is by far the most convenient way to travel to the Scottish Highlands,” said Keith Watson, Eastern Airways’ head of sales & marketing. “This decision to introduce larger aircraft with 34% more capacity is not only to meet demand from the business community, but also demonstrates our commitment to growing leisure traffic between the two regions.

“The service will benefit those taking outdoor activity holidays, such as climbing and hill walking in the stunning mountainous region and will even appeal to tourists searching for castles and the Loch Ness monster!”

Manchester Airport’s aviation development director, Tim McDermott, said: “Manchester – Inverness has proved to be a good niche route for Eastern Airways, who’ve built up a loyal business following. By providing extra capacity using the Saab aircraft this will also help to attract more leisure travellers with Manchester being one of the most cosmopolitan cities in Europe, the Peak District, Pennines and North Wales on our doorstep, as well as Inverness being the gateway to the spectacular Highlands.”