View Full Version : Recording of a handover of position
3rd Oct 2005, 17:35
Just a curious little question.
I remember the open mic trial that Terminal Control at West Drayton was implemented. Anywhere else require the physical "recording" through either an open mic or the physical selecting of a button/whatever for a controller handing a position over to another when being relieved for a break?
3rd Oct 2005, 18:10
I always thought you guys in the Arctic did it the way they do it in the movies...
Controller 1 walks up to controller 2 who is working a position and says, "take a break."
Controller 2 grunts, "OK," unplugs and walks away.
Controller 1 sits down, plugs in, and starts talking (in the movies there are airplanes on freq though... you may have to simulate same...)
Are there plans afoot to require more? Seems unreasonable to me if there are. :rolleyes:
3rd Oct 2005, 19:01
Operational Position Monitoring kit would do the trick ;)
3rd Oct 2005, 19:14
I believe this happens in YYZ ACC but not here in the tower... yet. The capability is here as well, as we use the same Frequentis VCCS. You have to remember to move your headset jack from "coach" to "operator" after the handover is complete, otherwise your hotlines won't work!
3rd Oct 2005, 19:46
Oh Dave, how nearly right you are :p :E
4th Oct 2005, 02:46
Happens in Bris Centre Oz. We also voice log on.
4th Oct 2005, 09:14
My first experience of an open-mike handover was 21 years ago in Perth Flight Service, where the releasing FSO plainly did not trust me to last 5 minutes without welding a couple.
Has got into the culture now in Melbourne Center, and no reflection on the spud you are handing over to. Has greatly enhanced the chances of hearing what you need to, with a lot of ass-covering waffle also.
4th Oct 2005, 10:13
I must agree that the days of 'As you see it' are gone and also having to yell out to the guy in the TV room to tell you what was left to do 5 minutes after you sat down.
Along with OPM we also have to do a WEST Handover
W Wx sigmets.winds etc
E equipment ( state of knackerdness)
S situation Royal Flights,AWACS,off peak routes etc
T traffic situation
At first I thought it would be a lot of nonsense but it seems to work quite well and it did replace the PRAWN :confused: handover that was trying to be introduced
4th Oct 2005, 13:08
You forgot to mention that the HO/TO checklist is actually on the console, and you are supposed to follow it.
Recent ivestigations have indicated a reduction in incidents with deficient HO/TO being a causal factor. Gone are the days of "buffs in, blues out" type handovers.
4th Oct 2005, 13:23
with a lot of ass-covering waffle also.
Ahhhh, this was the point I hoped somebody would raise.
We've just had the requirement introduced here, and the checklist we've been given to follow is great for enroute, yet doesn't really apply to Approach/Terminal. You start getting/giving your life story on handover, what you were going to do and watch out for them tower guys who ain't in the best mood today ( ;) ).
And the response from the guy taking over? "Yeah, yeah. Get out of the way while I have time to fix it"
5th Oct 2005, 07:44
Yes, there is a fine line between waffle and communicating what the taking over controller needs to know.
BTW, although there is a generic checklist in MATS. Each group has a group specific checklist documented in its LIs for the controllers to use.
5th Oct 2005, 07:58
In the UAE, we have set crews, so we all arrive for a morning shift together and all take over from Night shifts and then handover to afternoon crew etc., so not like Oz where you have 6am starts, then some in at 7, then some at 10am etc etc. So because of that the Supervisor hands over all pertinent info to taking over crew, and that is all written on a briefing sheet, which means only the traffic needs to be handed over at the radar, controller to controller, as all other stuff (eg. Active Danger areas, radars U/S, areas of turbulence etc.) will have been covered by the supervisor.
It has been advised to us here that shortly there will be the equivalent of a "black box" flight recorder installed in the Ops. room, as per an ICAO recommendation, in response to the Uberlingen (Sp??) Crash. It will pick up all voice conversations in the room that wouldn't normally be recorded (supposedly??!!). But at the moment handovers here aren't recorded as there is no voice log in/ recording facility as there is in Oz.
5th Oct 2005, 12:54
It's been a requirement in the U.S. for some time now. We have a position relief button on our com consoles to record the relief briefing.