Skiathos skidmarks !

[skylordschum]

Anyone who has landed on runway 02 at JSI recently will see a set of skidmarks that end at right angles to the runway very close to the end of the runway and the subsequent drop down to the beach !

Enquiries revealed that a Scandinavian MD80 left them - does anyone know any more ?

[blackbox]

That Beach!! Ah bliss... Spent a day there this summer.... Good little airport at JSI….

[wawkrk]

There is something similar at LBA.
In this case I assume landing skid marks close to 32 threshold before the piano keys at about 30deg to the runway and starting on or before the runway edge marker lights.
Always curious to know what happened.

[Flip Flop Flyer]

Enquiries revealed that a Scandinavian MD80 left them - does anyone know any more ?

Yeah I've heard that SAS has got all birds flying, and incidentially I've also noticed the utter lack of any reports including any SAS aircraft having a bit of a moment anywhere. Now you may call me an overtly simplicstic kind of guy, but perhaps the case is that aviation is not always a cut and dry kind of science, and that sometimes things don't go entirely as the plan may call for, whilst not getting out of hand. In other words, shyte happens without it constituting an emergency. It's called life ...

Only yesterday I was delayed out of Washington flying on SK926 IAD-CPH. The carriage (A330-300) had been subjected to a "hard landing" and the subseaquent inspection. News worthy? Hardly. Left a skid mark on the runway? Possibly. Worthy of a thread by a supposedly professional on this here forum? Don't think so!

[Airbanda]

The skid marks at LBA are probably from this incident

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4559315.stm

[skylordschum]

I did not say an SAS MD80 - I said a Scandinavian MD80. There is a differance.

If you are one of the pilots who is checked out to fly into Skiathos then you will know why I ask the question. You are obviously not. I am well aware the things happen and I am also well aware what constitutes an emergency. The skid marks and eyewitness reports indicate that it was a very close thing to a complete aircraft loss - something went wrong and what exactly should be disseminated. Its called Safety...

[ceedee]

Worthy of a thread by a supposedly professional on this here forum? Don't think so!
You're probably correct but cut the OP a little slack for a request for information in R&N?

If the skid marks really are at 90 degrees to normal track and at the northern end of the runway (my presumption) then I'd guess the excursion would have been of considerable interest to both the passengers and crew!

I wouldn't like to estimate the drop to the sea but it always looked pretty dramatic from my perspective.

Didn't someone post some aerial photos here of Skiathos ages back?


Disclaimer: feel free to ignore or ridicule my comments, I'm only SLF with enough of an interest to have quietly observed here for several years.
:O

[JustaFokker]

I believe the incident in question was an Icelandic MD83 flying for a now defunct British charter airline from EMA.

[Dan Winterland]

And I bet there were other skidmarks relating to this incident!

[JustaFokker]

there were.......i was on it!

[Ladusvala]

skylordschum,
please choose your words with more care. When you write "a Scandinavian MD80" I think you mean an MD80 flown by SAS.
SAS is Scandinavian or more correctly Scandinavian Airlines System. As far as I know, SAS goes by the name Scandinavian in everyday english.
You should have realised that this would lead to people thinking you meant an SAS MD80.

[A and C]

Very interesting ! I to would like to know what happend I took a good look the other day when turning the aircraft around and the marks seem to indicate a very close run thing !

[leonbrumsack]

Just to split hairs...

Scandinavian also happens to be an adjective for things which come from Scandinavia though...! Therefore, a MD80 from/registered in a Scandinavian country could quite correctly be described as a Scandinavian MD80! :E

[Bamse01]

Being Norwegian, and having nothing bad to say about the Icelandic, I still don't believe Iceland is considered part of Scandinavia.

[Aristomenis]

Hello to everybody, i am a ppl student and what a coincidence, i will be flying solo to Skiathos from Thessaloniki (lgts) on Wednesday, i will try to take some photos of the runway...

[WHBM]

i am a ppl student and what a coincidence, i will be flying solo to Skiathos from Thessaloniki (lgts) on Wednesday, i will try to take some photos of the runway...
If you're doing your PPL QXC I suggest it's possibly better you concentrate on your landing flare rather than trying to take photos ! :)

[Aristomenis]

Dont worry, i will take the photos after having landed.... (I was almost certain that i would receive a reply as such!!!!)

[broadreach]

Aristomenis,

WHBM has said what a hundred ppruners thought! Now it's on your head, a moral obligation, to get those pics and post them here, otherwise we'll all suspect another coverup! Here's hoping your own skid marks are in the general direction of the centreline.

:ok: broadreach

[Kyprianos Biris]

Didn't someone post some aerial photos here of Skiathos ages back?

Perhaps I did,

Except of the ones available at airliners.net etc you can browse some from the private collection of Nataly Anemodoura.
http://hellasga.com/gallery/album09

I know one of the controllers at Skiathos.
I'll ask and if I have something on it I'll get back to you.

[Freeway]

That is one seriously low Olympic ATR-42! :eek:

[ThinkRate]

That is one seriously low Olympic ATR-42!

Er, actually no! This is one seriously low Olympic ATR (http://hellasga.com/gallery/album10/LGKR_1093112587)

TR
-------------------------------
ThinkRate! ThinkRate! Don't Think!

[LGWAlan]

Nice shot of Corfu though!

[GotTheTshirt]

Thinkrate
Boy was he lucky the lights were in his favour :D

[Aristomenis]

Just returned from Skiathos, solo flying. The trip was fantastic, unlimited visibility under scattered cumulus at 2500 during the entire trip resulted in me going coast to coast and enjoying the view... Unfortunately although i landed and took off on 02, i was not able to see the skid marks. You see, i was concetrating on my flare as WHBM suggested :D At take off, the 10 knots headwing resulted in the c182 taking off at a few hundreds of feet, so i was above the runways treshold at about 800 feet and could not see. Anyway, i have captured a video that i will upload ASAP.

[Danny]

For your delectation, a little something I prepared earlier (about two years earlier). Short final from the f/d of a B737 into Skiathos. Landing is uphill. Other way is even more interesting.

http://i1.zvhost.com/1/g/g3v76h18.jpg (http://www.zippyvideos.com/5917062671553506/lgsk-b737/)

Oh, and the skidmarks weren't mine either!

© PPRuNe Ltd 2005

[WHBM]

Danny - were you concentrating on your flare ? :)

(I'll probably get banned for this :ooh: )

[broadreach]

Aristomenis, glad at your evidently safe return.

The skidmarks will now disappear into urban legend unless some brave ppruner carries a stepladder down to the threshold and snaps them before the unnamed scandahoovians sneak in at night to scrub them off with steel brushes and loads of clorox.

[Donners]

....good call on the auto brake Danny :cool:

[Kyprianos Biris]

I got some information coming from the ATC who was on shift the day of the incident.

This is all I was told in brief :

Some weeks ago, Bristish charter, MD8x , lands midfield, brakes hard, turns sharply at end of runway while still braking hard, smoke starts coming off from aircraft (below I guess), ATC informs pilots about smoke and that they called airport fire brigade, pilot specifies that he does not need f.b., all ends well.

ATC said aircraft touched down way too late down runway 02.

[ThinkRate]

I thought that the tower cannot see over towards the far end of rwy02 due to morphology?

It otherwise sounds as close a save as it looks :eek: :eek: :oh::ugh:

TR
-----------------------------
ThinkRate! ThinkRate! Don't Think!

[quickturnaround]

Skiathos is a Short Runway airport for most airlines, so landing on the Touch Down Zone Markers is a must, when you float you will end up making very bad skid marks if you decide to land, in the worst case you end up in the Beach-bar on the north side of rwy 02, hope the Frappee will still be cold by then.
Skiathos is a very nice airport, but do not underestimate it.

QTA, nice controllers they have by the way...............:cool:

[skylordschum]

Kyprianos Biris - There are no MD80 UK airlines - was the charterer British ?

[Fried_Chicken]

Previously mentioned to be an Air Scandic flight (possibly either a JetX MD83 or Viking MD83 as these were being used on it's flights from East Midlands)

Fried Chicken

[Kyprianos Biris]

There are no MD80 UK airlines - was the charterer British ?

I wondered about the same too. It sounded weird.

Since the info. came from a friend of the ATC (who I asked to do the query) the "Bristish" may be a misscommunication.

The (exact word quote)Emdieightysomething and the (exact word quote)charter are more definite the way it sounded when I was told about the incident.

I could not ask for more info. because such discussions are delicate :E

ThinkRate, Skiathos now has a new higher tower (room!) and (I believe) the full runway length is visible. It is a clever construction of a tower's control room building just constructed over the old one (one extra storey height).

[JustaFokker]

JetX MD83 EMA - JSI - VOL - EMA 02/09/05

[Aristomenis]

QTA, nice controllers they have by the way...............




Katerina is the name behind that sensual (sic) voice!!!!

[skylordschum]

JustAFokker - thank you - and the charterer was ?

[JustaFokker]

It was operating for Air Scandic, charterer was Kosmar.

[Dagger Dirk]

Is a Picture Worth a Thousand Words?
.
Chirp Report Text: Having just landed at ###, an Island with a short, narrow runway, I noticed to my amazement aircraft tyre tracks which continued beyond the end of the runway onto a small area of stopway.
The tracks were made quite clearly by all 4 mainwheel tyres skidding, leaving dark black lines, and even the nosewheel tyre marks could be seen, the skid marks commenced approximately two thirds the way down the runway from the threshold, veered sharply off to the left of the centreline, returned to and crossed the centreline at the end of the runway and stopped in a curving arc, with the final nosewheel imprint roughly 5 metres before the end of this small piece of stopway.* Beyond this point there is a steep drop onto a small beach.
.
On enquiring as to what had happened to cause this near disaster, I was told that the aircraft in question was a ### (twinjet) operated by a non-UK airline on charter to a UK company and routing from AAA (a UK regional airport).* The aircraft had been seen landing 'half-way' down the runway, then (as the end of the runway is not visible from the apron) had re-appeared, with smoke pouring from its brake units, as it back-tracked the runway to the apron.* I was also told that this aircraft came in each week with a different Captain (of differing nationalities) and always had some sort of technical problem!
.
In my company this destination is classed as one of the most challenging and requires special training and recency, with Captains only landing, and experienced Captains at that.* In my judgement, from the evidence available, this was an extremely serious incident that only narrowly avoided becoming a disaster!* Should British subjects be unwittingly exposed to the dangers of non-UK registered, third-party operators such as these, who may not have the rigorous training and standards that traditional British airlines enjoy?
http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfast/200206_files/image009.jpg
http://www.iasa-intl.com/folders/belfast/200206_files/image011.jpg

[tom de luxe]

Should British subjects be unwittingly exposed to the dangers of non-UK registered, third-party operators such as these, who may not have the rigorous training and standards that traditional British airlines enjoy?
Good Lord, no! HM's Government should really make sure that only foreigners board these planes. ("Traditional British airlines", do you mean Britannia Airways AKA Thomsonfly, owned by Germans?)
:rolleyes:

[bermudatriangle]

Looks like Madeira to me.True vey short runway with little margin for error.Remember about 15 years ago Air Europe 757 nosegear nearly entered flight deck from below due to very heavy landing.

[WHBM]

Covered elsewhere on PPRuNe. Skiathos, Greece and an MD-80.

Thanks for that link, WHBM - thread now 'rehomed' and merged.

[angels]

Yeah. On that thread, check out Danny's video clip!

[Regular Cappuccino]

Checked out the other Skiathos threads - brought back some memories!
Did an ATC Fam Flight there some years back with JMC (as was) in an A320.
Capt's brief mentioned the road - "There are sometimes people on it, but they generally run when they see us coming"
"We don't do floating landings - if we haven't touched down by the time we reach the first turn off we go around, or we'll drop off the cliff at the other end"
"On the turning circle for departure, always swing left then turn round to the right, or we'll blow out the windows of the bungalow next to the threshold"
Seeing the mention of "controllers", is there full ATC at Skiathos now? Captain's brief when I went was that there was just "..a little man who tends the sheep and goes up to the tower to talk to us when we're due" - at any rate, he seemed to be permitted to handle only one aircraft at a time in the air (the rest being either with Macedonia Radar or held on the Apron).
Very memorable day, with an APU failure on start at Thessaloniki and an air conditioning pack failure at top of climb. Captain turned round and said "This has been just like a simulator ride hasn't it?" !

As a result of that trip, I did view the MD83 ops with some trepidation when we had them last year...with good reason it seems!
RC