QF EBA, vote YES OR ELSE!

[longjohn]

Latest update from Chief Pilot designate err sorry AIPA President casts a parting pre-ballot threat across the bows of the junior ranks.

Following meetings with senior management it would seem that in the event that the AIPA membership vote NO then the career progression of junior members will be uncertain. Apropos, should we vote yes then this will be seen as a positive sign.

I have never in my career pre or post Qantas seen so many veiled threats thrown around. So far we have been threatened with:

- no 3% back pay
- Singapore basing on company terms
- no A380 agreement
- loss of flying
- reduced career progression
- irreparable damage to pilot/ company relations

to name a few.

These threats have been made by:

- Senior management
- Chief pilot
- and the best, OUR UNION AIPA.

Flight Ops management are also spreading rumours that GOD himself will be sorely displeased if we vote no....:yuk:

As far as I am concerned:

- I won't miss what I don't have
- see above
- we are already losing flying to Jetstar
- what career progression?
- so far the current relationship has us being screwed anyway.

So now I have another reason to vote NO.

VOTE NO TO MANAGEMENT INTIMIDATION.

[Capt Stabbin]

The recent AIPA elections point to the EBA being voted down like a sack of sh*t. "All passengers and crew be seated and fasten seat belts!"

[Wun Wing Lo]

Just like the J* MOU. Vote or else... what a dud that was.

Why are they so desperate for us to sign.... And if this is such a good deal for our SO's and they can do it anyway but much worse where is the offset?

Forgive me if im a little skeptical of those that jumped ship from the union to the company for their own self interests. Serious lack of cred fellas.

[ITCZ]

So QF is dangling a carrot at one end of the donkey, and is cracking a whip at the other end.

What else did you guys expect, seriously!

If a company cant MAKE you do something, they will cajole and threaten.

Don't waste your energy getting upset about that.

However.......

It is good to see that QF pilots at all levels are getting fired up about AIPA. It might awake a sleeping giant. It is not so good to see that more than a few are fired up about Jetstar being 'the enemy.'

Leaving the politics and the history to one side, it is just plain stupid for QF pilots to attack JQ's expansion by trying to limit it.

Any time the 'big boys' tried to say -- that's our flying, those are our routes -- they failed and did long term damage to their cause. Ansett/Kendell/CRJ wasn't all that long ago, for instance.

The existence of JQ, and to a lesser extent, NJS as an operator of QLink jet services, is a very useful industrial bargaining tool for your company. If however you had close relations with all pilots that flew under the QF group colours, you remove the ability of your company to play one off against the other.

Time some of you that complain about 'blind company men' realised that your prejudices and fears about JQ and others make YOU blind company men. Attack or move to limit JQ, you attack pilots. You will only do damage to yourselves in the long run. Those companies are established, they will not be easily given up, and efforts should be made to steer them, not stop them.

ARG, good luck. I hope the fervour is matched by some clear thinking and good strategy.

[sys 4]

time to ask who are the people that run your union and what is their position within the company

[QFinsider]

The problem with the J* thing is that they don't show much solidarity now. They are the flavour of the month! It is hard to convince them that their best interest is uniting when the former AIPA presdient didn't want them in our camp nor did it seem many of our colleagues, so uniting isn't that easy. They (J*) have to see the benefit too. With the likes of Oldmeadow in their ears it is likely not joining with AIPA will further their own end. The company will continue to divide finding a new group to fly shiny planes.

The great thing about the arrogance is eventually you get caught out. Announcing J* to Europe is evdience of corporate arrogance. Blind freddy knows what that means! Before an EBA vote and union election me thinks is strategically dangerous....When you are the only game in town and have been for a long time you get lazy!

In the latest flight operation blurb our esteemed EGM Bogetti stated "Qantas has made no secret of the fact that J* plans to fly to international destinations"

Tsk Tsk Johnny, there was NEVER any mention of that, certainly not in the last two years! Holt and the junta never mentioned that at the SGM... Again Blind Freddy knows that they are only lying when their mouths are open.


In the coming weeks management will make more threats, so will AIPA, it's called self interest! My sources tell me there will be some interesting fallout from a No vote. An EBA vote is a great democratic way to say on mass, enough is enough! It's great to see the some political animals/ bullies under a little pressure....

Career progression, please Robin spare me


Hold the line guys and girls....We need do nothing except vote NO

Game on:ok::E :E

[bonvol]

If the current junta can't cajole, threaten, bully and coerce the usually malleable pilots into a yes then the normal management tactic is to get rid of the managers who didn't deliver.

This would be a step in the right direction to "engagement".

[Crusty Demon]

There is a strong rumour that certain individual positions (management) may be under threat if a No vote takes place. Interesting times ahead.

As for AIPA, what are the basis of these threats? Why are you so convinced we have to vote Yes? What information do you have that is not being passed on to us (as usual)? Give me a good reason to vote Yes (facts), not just threats.

With regard to Jetstar, I have nothing against the pilots, and would like to see their conditions improved along with those of Eastern/Sunstate etc. Eventually I would wish that we could all combine our seniority lists and all do as we please. Doesn't hurt to dream.

[Sonny Hammond]

68% voted for the ARG, it's fair to assume most of them will vote down the EBA.

The (un)veiled threats and intimidation won't work on this crowd, rather it will have the opposite effect.

Flt Ops management are about to get a lesson in people 101.

[BUNYA]

Right on guys. It's great to see so many of our future ARG leaders posting on PRUNE. That's what we want ..real leadership. (Welcome home John, I hope your paxhome in P class wasn't too gruelling.)

John,you are so right we won't knuckle under to bullying. That guy he is just waiting to takeover in Qantas. Nothing he says is true...how do we know that? Because everyone in Fatties says so...and darn I've never known bar talk to be wrong, right?

They just want us to give in and give up but we won't right? We have a great system now with the cheapest pilots in the free world everyone happy and gettin along and they're trying to screw us takeaway our precious bodily...sorry our way of life. Who do they think they are?

Who do they think is running this Company?

[LTBC]

Just because the outcomes are negative doesn't make them a 'threat'. Stop sheltering yourselves from the business realities. The EBA vote is a vote on the EBA, not on whether you perceive management to be intimidating or not.

It's one of the best jobs in the world but we continue to allow ourselves to succomb to the internal negativity rather than dynamically and progressively adapt. If you actually think through what is offered rather than blindly trust the 'Cave network' you would see that it is actually a good deal!

Wake up and enjoy wherever you are today! Lets take on the challenge as individuals rather than hide behind a ballot paper and/or the unrealistic platitudes of the 'new regime'.

[Veruka Salt]

So the company achieves savings of 10 percent, gives us back 3 percent, leaving a saving of 7 percent . . . . tell me how that is a good deal. :mad:

[QFinsider]

all have access to these pages, including the lapdogs...Im not talking about fatties, or rumour.....

The reality is the ARG got a significant vote. Ask the AEC!

It isn't about who runs the company its about reality. The need to coerce shows that there are cracks. I'm not an ARG member but i voted for them.

The first rule of any campaign against a strong adversary is dont play to its strengths. The EBA is an industrial process, it isnt political nor will it grind the company to a halt, rather it simply says the flexible have become less so. The process ensures it will be resolved...Nothing more. No strike no threats no dare I say it 89...The deal is rejected negotiation continues. Should the CP or EGM wish to continue to print their threats, then the IRC will be very intertested....

It is simply a no vote......part of a process enshrined in law....

Why don't you wannabees go down to the graphic arts club and suck a few knee caps:mad:

Dynamically adapt= a new way to bend over..Got to love the managment double speak..pick that up in an engagement brieifng did we? I wish you wannabees would go and get some real qualifications instead of massaging egos in BS castle

give me an auditors opinion of the Singapore basing, something the accountants external to the company are prepared to sign. The company has had 18months to get an opinion and the best they come up with is still rubbery to say the least. As one of our colleagues alluded to earlier , you want us to buy this puppy, GIVE ALL OF US FACTS NOT THREATS

Oh and by the way LTBC or wherever you reside in QCC3, you wanna talk business realities, ill put my qualifications and business experience against whatever reality you claim to posess anyday:ok: your reality isn't mine

[Ronnie Honker]

QF moving a bulk of their crews to Singapore would be a dream come true for the Island State.
They'll welcome them in with arms wide open, and give them every conceivable comfort to make them feel at home.
Once in the web, the trapdoor will close.

After all, WHO is it who wants to operate from Australia to the US? :E

GOD was short-sighted enough to believe Jet Star Asia could succeed - this one ought to be a snack for SQ! :p

[QFinsider]

To all the merchants wheeling the company barrow, An EBA is a process allowing employees to negotiate with their employer over a set of terms and conditions for a given period...

A NO vote changes nothing, it just means due process must be followed. That due process means returning to the IRC and looking through the 'sticking point(s)'. We have in fact had an expired EBA for over 18months....

A NO vote has nothing to do with company loyalty. The company will never affect through mismangement my professionalism. What they have lost is my concern for their bottom line, something I in a past life focused on for my employer.

The reality as I alluded to another thread is that our aging pilot group and the massive amount of retirements in the next ten years will, provide oppurtinuties for people with skills in all industries, the likes we have seen before! :E