Hi all, I got emailed this article about "A day in the life of a flight attendant". In it, the author mentions a pregnant woman in the exit row of a 319, and that the crew decide to let her stay in the seat.

Would this be done at your airline? And as the author mentions "no law" to cover this, would this differ between states in the US?

I thought that in Australia a woman who was pregnant (at least in late pregnancy) would not be considered suitable to occupy that seat. (In my airline it is the case, anyway...) Would it possibly depend on the aircraft in other airlines? (e.g. a Dash-8 compared to say an A330?)

Article from here (http://www.skycontrol.net/mag/aerocareers.php)

She notices a pregnant woman sitting in the exit row, and the four of us discuss whether the passenger is qualified to do so. Since no regulation explicitly excludes pregnant women from those seats and the passenger insists she is both willing and able to assist in an emergency, we decide to let her stay there.

So: would you let her stay there? Why or why not?? :D

(Edited for stuff i forgot :))

I would. opening the door will do no more damage to her that hurtling down the escape slide at 60mph and comning to a sudden stop.

I know it is CAA regs that pregnant pax are not allowed to occupy these seats, but i can't see the harm in it

I don't think it is so much about doing damage to herself. If she is not able bodied, she could block the door for everyone else's rapid departure. She might seem quite fit, but can you guarantee she is not going to find herself with serious incapacitating stomach pains just at the wrong moment?

Jetteson,
Thats a very concerning comment you just made! What if she was unable to open the exit in her condition? Its nothing to do with the person being injured, its about their capabilites to assist evacuating an aircraft and I know very few pregnant women who would be able to do this without giving unneeded added stress to their unborn baby!

On Icelandic registered aircraft, pregnant women can be ABPs and sit at emergency exits. I can see it being a bit tricky at overwings where the exit is much smaller, but at a main door I can't see a problem. Pregnant women aren't invalids. Geez, at nine months pregnant I was climbing ladders to wash windows and doing just about everything I had been doing when not pregnant.

SkySista, you say that in your airline a pregnant woman would not be allowed to sit in the exit row. If memory serves me correctly, you work for Eastern.

I too work for Eastern, and have never been told this (but it wouldn't surprise me if you were, because every line trainer has his/her own ideas, which leads to a lot of inconsistencies).

There is no mention of pregnant women and exit row seating in the manual (see FAM 2, 3.6.6 Exit Row Seat Restrictions).

The way I was trained was to move anyone who expressed their inability to assist or was unsure whether they could. If a pregnant passenger was confident in assisting me if the need arose, I would have no qualms about leaving her in an exit row seat.

EAAFA,

Have to disagree with you sorry. Having worked on the QFLINK DH8's for quite some time I was never happy with pregant pax sitting in the exit row. Obviously if they were only a few months into the pregnancy it was ok, but for pax that were 'showing' I believe it is unsafe to have them in the exit as in an prepared emergency the pregnant pax should be relocated to the FWD part of the a/c where they can be seated beside an ABP and then be directed to use the front L1 door to exit ( if possible ). The very fact that we assign an ABP to pregant pax in a prepared emergency landing/ditching shows they are the type of person needing assistance.

One thing required of exit pax - especially on the DH8 is the ability to assist the f/a by directing pax outside the aircraft etc. I highly doubt a pregant pax would be staying behind, on or near the aircraft to assist - especially when they are carrying a child inside them ! They will be running away as fast as they can to protect their unborn child.

:D

Sky I think it depends on the type of a/c.

At JQ pregnant women over 6 months are not allowed to sit at the exit row according to CAO 20.16.3. It's not an option to go against a Civil Aviation Order so they wouldn't be placed there in the first place.

The free seating procedure we have means that it is o/wing's responsibility to ensure that the people sitting there are in accordance with the CAO and are also willing to do the job. I have had to ask pregnant women before how exactly many months they were before seating them, even though they were well within the quota they opted not to.

Having been pregnant myself before (OMG Iguana is a girl:E ) I know that these women are more than capable of performing the job. Later in the pregnancy it does become difficult to bend and lift, and depending how large you become you could just block an exit all together. :\

Hi all, thanks for all of your responses. It's interesting to see the ideas here...

I myself was leaning towards the point of the pax possibly blocking the door/becoming incapacitated during an emergency...

I figured also what some of you have mentioned and it would depend on the degree of pregnancy and whether the pax was willing to assist if allowed to be there in the first place...

I guess each case needs to be assessed on individual merits (if as Iguana says law does not prohibit this) and a decision made accordingly.

EEAFA... perhaps... perhaps.... :D But I'm of the mind to never admit to who I work for on a public forum... you just never know....:} I can see why you might think that though!! As for Iguana being a girl, yes I once did have that "Iguana is a girl?!" moment :p but that was quite awhile ago on a another unrelated topic... it's quite funny sometimes how a user name can make you think someone is a guy/girl, and later you find out they are exactly the opposite!!! :p :}

depending how large you become you could just block an exit all together so I guess for me, if in my opinion someone (man or woman) was so large they risked blocking an exit I would not put them there either... but you'd have to ber VERY sure about it I guess to avoid getting sued for 'discrimination'.....

Hi Sky, if a person was needing an extension seatbelt they would also not be permitted to sit at our exits. They can call discrimination all they like but it's common sense that they are not going to fit and will impede the evacuation.

A couple of weeks ago I had a very large man want to sit at my o/wing and I asked if he would be needing an extension belt. He obviously knew the drill with us and was adamant he didn't need one even after I told him he could have a whole row to himself. He then proceeded to heave his very large belly up and squeeze the belt on underneath it. I couldn't even see where the belt had gone. The whole time I'm thinking if we go down he's blocked one of my exits and I had visions of this man half stuck in the window with his butt hanging out. :}

Anyway I asked him if he felt he was able to operate the exit in an emergency and he said yes so I had no choice. Would love to have had a photo of a person stuck in an exit to show him what could happen. :\

Iguana, that is the case with mine too. If a pax is large enough to need extension belt then common sense as you says tells us they are not fit to operate the exit...

Myself when flying, I inwardly cringe when an overly large perosn comes up the aisle, hoping they will not be blocking me in the aisle seat.... it's not because of them themselves, it's just the fact I don't fancy my chances if things hit the fan!!! :}

(Personally, I once climbed over a guy who was asleep because I couldn't get to the lav otherwise... with 3 hours to go holding it wasn't an option!!!) The guy didn't even wake up....! :p

Lol, I can just see that in "airline service posters that didn't quite make the cut" = Man with Butt out of window..... :E

QF skywalker,

Everyone's opinion is valuable, but when it comes to things like this, it's not just a matter of opinion.

What I was thinking about when I posted the message was the company's policy. As SkySista mentioned, the individual in question could claim to have been discriminated against and the FA would not get any support from management because our procedures do not actually prohibit the seating of pregnant women in exit rows.

Also, every individual is different. Some pregnant women are more capable than other people who appear to be fit. If they were confident in their ability to assist, I'd rather have them in the exit row than someone who is fit but too dumb to follow instructions. Let's not forget, on a small aircraft like a Dash 8, exit row pax are called on to assist in ANY emergency, it's not just a question of opening the exit if needed.

Judging by your answer, I assume you work for the other Qantaslink airline (ie not Eastern), because your procedures are different from the ones written in our manuals. If you have the time, you might want to look up the CASA website for the official word on exit row seating restrictions. Quite interesting...

APADDYINUK in resopnse to your comment , "what if she was unable to open the door" That could happen to anyone not just her. If a fit and well person opens it the wrong way and twists their back, they are in exactly the same position. I don't think you should discrininate like this. The origional post does not mention the overwing door, it just mentions an exit row. as you know all main doors have power assist so there is no real strain. I really can't see the problem

Hi all, found this a very interesting thread..

I can't claim to have any knowledge of cabin procedures, but I can definitely say that when being checked in, pregnant women ARE EXPLICITLY EXCLUDED from being assigned exit seats. I realise that it's different when it's free seating, but there are very stringent rules that we have to follow in relation to seating pax in exit seats - the types of pax that are excluded are any pregnant pax, pax with any injuries, needing special assistance like wheelchair, any medical conditions, even elderly pax & those who don't speak any english.

There aren't any considerations for 'discrimination' because the safety of the aircraft always comes first. There are actually controls in our check in system that will stop anyone from assigning a seat to pax with particular fact edits in their booking. This is most definitely the case with the airlines that I check in for, whether other airlines are not as strict with this requirement I don't know..

as you know all main doors have power assistI don't know that, because it is not true.


"what if she was unable to open the door" That could happen to anyone This is of course absolutely correct. However the rules are made by assessing the risks. It is more probable that an evacuation aided by an able bodied passenger will be successful.

I understand you feel there is discrimination, and that you do not see a problem. But I do hope you stick to your company's policies if you are ever faced with this situation. Whilst the pregnant woman may thank you for it, you will also be putting somebody else's life at a higher risk than is necessary/legal.

Jetteson, Its no Discrimination as you put it, Its caring for the well being of to be parent and the unborn baby! The added stress of having to open an exit door (regardless of the type but I would imagine an overwing would be more difficult bearing in mind I know how heavy they are) would be enough to stress the foetus. Also, In an emergency situation the pregnant ladys natural priority will be to the well being of her unborn child, therefore how could you expect this person to assist the crew evacuate the aircraft effectively? I know I wouldnt want to put a pregnant lady or indeed a parent in that situation!

At the end of the day you may think it seems ok and you wouldnt say boo to the passenger, but what does your manual say? Its not about what you think but about what your airlines proceedures think!

I would (gently) move her. (No Pregnant pax allowed at overwing exits as per CAA anyway)
Unfortunately this happens more and more frequently with pax being able to allocate seats to themselves from home while checking-in online for their flight.
It is often difficult to spot the difference between a pregnant lady and one on the "bigger" side.......and things can be very tricky :E

The origional post does not mention the overwing door, it just mentions an exit row. as you know all main doors have power assist so there is no real strain. I really can't see the problem

Jettesen by "exit row on the A319" SKYSISTA meant the overwing exit row. That's what in general people refer to as the "exit row". Generally A319s have only one exit door each side in the centre of the cabin (EZY ones have two)

And no, there are many aircraft that have NO power assist installed in the main doors and they are more frequent than you think. In fact the 737, the most common aircraft in the world, has no power assist. (And those doors are bloody heavy during normal operations, imagine when the slide is engaged!)

Cheers!!!

FBW:)

Jettesen

I just typed a long reply which got lost as I submitted it....

Suffice to say, as a captain, I would be appalled at your cavalier approach to the regulations.

Can I suggest that you do not make up your own rules on the hoof and fit in or be prepared to undergo remedial training if discovered.

What makes you think you know better than the regulatory authority?

As a CSA in New Zealand, I would not be able to check her into the exit seat.

To broaden the topic slightly, a 'larger' person may not be seated at the emergency exit because they may get stuck in the exit? Fair enough, but surely there is something wrong with the design of emergency exit if your larger than average Joe is going to be stuck inside the aircraft and fried in the event of an emergency. Okay, so they managed to board the aircraft through the main entrance, but that can be a very long ways away from the cattle class end and with only a few seconds, the distance to cover will be too great. I guess that means the chances of a fatter/larger person surviving or escaping in the event of an emergency are reduced?

Or else the emergency exit is designed to be large enough to accommodate all sizes?

Topbunk,

Dont worry, going on a previous thread, Jettison seems to suffer from a serious case of "Know it all" syndrome, or is it "Chip on the shoulder" syndrome!! :}

fernytickles you're pretty much right about the design of the exits.

Of the smaller a/c I've flown on with over wing exits they are exactly that. Positioned over the wing, set into the wall of the aircraft and are accessed by pulling the window exit in and throwing it out. What's left is a hole in the wall which you need to access by standing on the seat and stepping out on to the wing. If you're too big to bend over and tie your shoe lace you're too big to bend in half and step out of an overwing exit, depending on the size of the aircraft.

The weight of the exit varies between 15 and 20 kilos and can't be made larger otherwise it would be impossible for the average person to lift and throw out. The airlines would then need to put a larger door type exit and that would cost money and take up seat space so that's not going to happen.

When I talk large I don't mean a bit on the weighty side, I mean very fat or obese people. If you need an extension belt you will probably either not fit through the exit or you will take a whole lot of time getting out and causing everybody behind you to evacuate at a slower pace.

As to whether their chances of survival are reduced I guess that depends on the type of emergency and evacuation on the day and where they are sitting on the aircraft.

And more importantly whether they took notice of the safety demo before take off. :E

Here's a question I'm curious about. How would a pregnant flight attendant handle informing a pregnant passenger that they were not permitted to sit at the exit row?:D

from both ckin and load control / dispatch (as we do everything here, :D) i would not allow pregnant, eldery, larger (trying to be politcaaly correct) any form of wchr pax or children into the exit. and it drives me mad when people do!!! more work for the rest of us, and i know a few cc that would scream and shout if we just let them board

Excellent point In The North!

I had a thought along similar lines: what if the pregnant passenger was an off duty flight attendant? Who better to assist?

To all the contributors from Australia who claim that it is against regulations to seat a pregnant woman in an exit row, CHECK THE CASA WEBSITE! It may be against your airline's policy, but it is not against the law.

Actually....very stupid point In The North
As we all know, as soon as a crew member discovers that they are pregnant they have to stop flying immediately!!! So that would never happen....unless of course the crewmember decided not to tell anyone...
Have you ever seen a pregnant hosty???

Here's a question I'm curious about. How would a pregnant flight attendant handle informing a pregnant passenger that they were not permitted to sit at the exit row?

apaddyinuk (how are you mate!) you're infact correct!! In the UK and in the majority of Europe as soon a flight attendant discovers she's pregnant she is taken off flying and put on ground duties. This is because the type of job and the situation of the woman don't really go together (Imagine being sick every ten minutes during the first few months, then eating aeroplane crap, being tired constantly then being so big and heavy you can barely move!!!! imagine performing an evacuation!!!!)
In addition to this, flying means you're exposed to more radiations (especially if you fly long-haul) and they haven't found out if these radiations can be harmful to the unborn baby. So to avoid having malformed kids on their conscience Airlines prefer giving pregnant ladies some other jobs (fleet office....staff shop....have you seen how many there are there at the moment!! all Christmas 2004 babies!!!)

Some american airlines, though, allow cabin crews to fly anyway. A few years ago I saw a pregnant AA hostie with my very own eyes (she was I'd say about 5-6 months pregnant) At that time I just couldn't believe it!!! But after seeing a male AA crew who was using walking sticks outside JH the other morning, I can believe anything!!!!!!! :E

FBW:}

Flybywire....You almost sound astonished that I could be correct you cheeky little minx !!! HAHAHA!!! Perhaps I too suffer from "know it all" syndrome!

As for the AA crewmember with his zimmerframe, I really do worry sometimes when checking into the Arora at some of the crew I see from the other side of the pond....I wonder if some of them are so decrepid because they have to carry all their luggage into the cabin with them!!! :p

As for the morning sickness and eating crew food, I have a friend who when on maternity leave had cravings for the Weapons of Mass Destruction which eurofleet used to serve!!!

As for JH....Say hello to it again for me, I have unfortunately left it for the last time (except perhaps to drop in the odd begging letter) for the Compast Center and the Glamour Jet!;)

apaddyinuk/flybywire

Well in Australia that is not the case and as EAAFA will tell you we fly with girls every day that are very pregnant, I mean to the point where they are really showing.

Being a guy I dont know the exact date they must stop flying but I recently flew with a girl who is now on leave that was huge. As a fellow crew member I had my doubts she would have been effective in an emergency or her first response would be to her unborn child and not the passengers and just exit the aircraft if an evacuation was ordered, however due to discrimination you cannot voice these concerns because the law states they can continue to fly until they are x months pregnant. If I was a passenger I would actually be quite shocked to see a flight attendant that visable pregnant perched up there in her crew seat.

As for seating a pregnant women in an exit row unless she was about to give birth or needed an extension seat belt or I felt she just wouldnt cope with the stress I would leave her in that seat, what right do I have to tell a women to move when clearly our cabin crew are permitted to fly when they cant even walk down the cabin of a DASH 8 without having to turn side ways.

Many years ago women would never dream of flying in the late stages of pregnancy but times have changed and some women are now giving birth at 35,000ft assisted by the trusty cabin crew/midwife/nurse/doctor but never fear that call bell will go off in the middle of the delivery and Mr Joe Blow sitting in 2A will be looking for his coke.

"Actually....very stupid point In The North
As we all know, as soon as a crew member discovers that they are pregnant they have to stop flying immediately!!! So that would never happen....unless of course the crewmember decided not to tell anyone...
Have you ever seen a pregnant hosty???"

Wow! I COULD respond just as rudely, but I'll leave it at this:

Yes, as a matter of fact I HAVE seen a pregnant hosty. Many in fact. If you looked at my location it says Canada and OBVIOUSLY we have different regulations there. As for the pregnant hosties, I was one of them. I flew until I was 35 weeks pregnant before going offline and onto modified work. It was a decision made between my doctor and myself. I was in a positon to enjoy quite decent seniority and could pick my schedule. I also had some vacation time during the first three months so the flying was quite light. I didn't suffer from morning sickness (not all pregnant women do) and was full of energy. I never doubted that I would be fully capable during an emergency. I was able to fulfill all of my job functions apart from moving heavy cannisters from above shoulder level to the floor and back again, but that can take two FAs at the best of time. Had this not been the case I would have removed myself from flying. Some FAs DO go off line immediately. It's a personal choice. If your medical professional feels you are fit to fly, then it's up to you. For ME, working three days a week actually afforded me LESS stress than driving to the office FOUR days in a row, in rush hour traffic etc etc.

I asked the original question because it was something I had considered while pregnant. I was never actually faced with it, but wondered how others would handle it. Simple question. And EAAFA had an EXCELLENT point. What if the pregnant person in question was an off duty FA? Wouldn't you rather they were seated at the exit than 'Joe Blow" who is unfamiliar with procedures?

Incidentally, passengers LOVED the fact that I was pregnant. And believe it or not, it was probably, during my 15 years of flying, the time that I was given the most respect and basic friendly interaction from passengers!:O

In The North, I was not meant to sound rude....simply Irish Sarcasm!

However it shocks me that some countries allow pregnant flight attendants! My mother who flew for 30 years before retiring suffered two major mis-carraiges which she thinks may have had to do a lot with remaining flying for a only a number of weeks before she discovered she was pregnant on both occassions.

I find the word "discriminate" over used for all the wrong reasons in this PC world. We use it too many times when we dont get what we want. I personally dont believe I would be discriminating against a pregnant woman by moving her from the exit row...I move which I am MANDATED to do by the CAA! If I perhaps told her that she could not fly because I did not want a pregnant lady going into labour onboard then I would be discriminating! I may be a man (lets leave that for another thread) but I would sure as hell not want my pregnant partner put in a position that could have a detremental effect on my child.

You see, regulations aside - as we have clearly stated different countries have different rules - I could not see myself flying when pregnant. I would miss it a lot, but it's a stressful job (at least here at Shittty-Haul, apaddyinuk!! ;) ) and I remember very well when I was pregnant I was throwing up every other minute and was feeling really tired!
I know things could be different the second time, but I think I'd like to take things easy.

Miscarriages unfortunately are very common among hosties, a few friends of mine have had this problem and I too am one of the unlucky ones. I would never do anything to compromise the health of my baby, even if it hasn't been "technically" proven yet that flying is definitely dangerous for the foetus. And let's be honest, it is not the healthiest of jobs.
However it is good to see that there are people who have chosen to fly while expecting a baby like In The North who have had healthy babies, have enjoyed a trouble-free pregnancy and have enjoyed their flying at the same time.

I wouldn't be able to choose my rosters so if I struggle doing 12hrs double duties like Naples-Geneva now, imagine with a big bump. NO, Thanks!!!!!! :E :E

FBW:)

PS: apaddyinuk, yes sometimes you can be right too!! ;)



Oh I forgot to say, I had a woman deliver on board 3 years ago, during a 13hr ETOPS flight. In Italy the CC curse at the Aviation medicine examiners (I promise apaddyinuk, what we do over here is NOTHING compared to that!) but that day all we had learnt came in really handy. The boys tried to be brave but couldn't face it, so it was up to us girls to try to help this woman who didn't speak a word of english or italian. It wasn't the happiest of my flying moments. Very difficult, lots of blood and the baby eventually died - was still alive when we landed though, but she was premature and very tiny. It took me months to get over it, not for the birth itself as I had already seen a few (in hospital!) but for the situation and the outcome.
When I see a heavily pregnant passenger nowadays I thank God I fly short haul!!!! :}

apaddyinuk: Sorry, sometimes sarcasm is a little difficult to get through text. Didn't mean to take it personally. Let me be quite clear, however. My decision to fly during my pregnancy was personal. I discussed it a great length with my doctor and we decided, together, that I was fit to fly. Had there ever been ANY doubt that it was not safe, I wouldn't have done it. Plain and simple. Not everyone is as fortunate as I was. Had I been sick, unable to perform my job or simply told that it was not in my, or my baby's best interest, I would have grounded myself. Again, it's a personal decision. As it was, my daughter was born healthy and happy and at 8 years old is beautiful and SOOO smart (no I'm not biased at all). It all worked out for me. Everyone should decide for themselves.

As for allowing a pregnant pax to sit at an exit row: I've thought about it and here's what I came up with.Obviously if your country, or even your airline for that matter, has a regulation about this, you follow it. Otherwise it's a judgement call. I'm not sure if the regulations are different around the world, but in Canada, ANY passenger seated at an exit row is briefed prior to take off. (eg, if you're on the A320 and there are 4 window exits, you brief 12 people). We are very specific regarding details--what do to, when to do it, how much the exit weights etc. It is then up to the individuals. They are asked, and required to respond as to whether they have any questions, whether they understood and whether they feel comfortable sitting there. If the passengers have listened and agree to what they've heard, I leave them there. I stand by my statement that a pregnant woman could be quite capable of operating that exit. (I have a friend who is about 8 months pregnant, goes to the gym and could seriously out weight-lift half the men in that place! I would take her at an exit row over a lot of people any day!). The thing is that the people at the row are there for an UNPLANNED emergency. Once that exit is open they are not required to stick around and evacuate the rest of the aircraft. They evacuate themselves, end of story. Would I use a pregnant woman as an ABP in a PLANNED emergency? Probably not. She may then be asked to not only open the door if I'm incapacitated, but help direct passengers off the aircraft. I'd imagine many mothers (or fathers for that matter), whether their kids were on the plane or not, would hesitate to stick around if they could save their butts! Including the pregnant ones.

Anyway, blah blah blah from me. I seem to have the gift of the gab this evening. I'll leave it at that!

In the North...."the gift of the gab"....Are you sure your not Irish???? HAHAHAHA!!! Id love to sit down and talk all sorts of jargon with you over several pints!!!! I must admit, as far as explaining your point...WELL DONE! After reading that I will admit that yeah, if you have explained it to the customer that this is what is expected of them and they are still ok with it then your job is done and you can be happy to expect the customers to help out should the c&$p hit the fan!
Where I fly things are very highly regulated including flying when pregnant. Why it is regulated more so here than in other parts of the world I dont know but I guess its one of those things...for instance, its illegal to drive while speaking on a mobile phone here but it is not in other countries. It will just be one of those things that hangs in a shadow i guess and this thread has certainly highlighted that!!!!

Flybywire....keep in touch, of your ever flying out of LHR on staff travel....message me!!! Let me know if your on a certain BA crew union forum!!!!! :rolleyes:

Hi all.... wow!! This thread is certainly very interesting.

I agree with 'In the North' that if there is no law then of course each individual crew member would have to make a judgement call, using their own experience and airline policy.

As for the point of if the pregnant pax was an off-duty F/A, then I guess as long as legally allowed to do so, she may be better than the average Joe to occupy that seat.

The pregnant when flying thing interests me too - I actually only found out a year or two ago that in some countries (eg the US) it is allowed, as a friend told me about an FA on a flight who was very obviously pregnant! Different strokes for different folks I guess!

Paddy, it's illegal to use a mobile when driving in most parts of Aus, too... but that doesn't seem to stop 'em!!! :p

Keep it coming, people, this is great reading!!

Skysista....who says it stops me either!!! :p

apaddyinuk, it's nice to see you have settled things with In the North.

However, describing someone's comments as "stupid" is not funny. You should remember that this is an international forum. Laws and company policies differ greatly, so don't assume that someone is stupid because they are not aware of the regulations in your country.

Also, I doubt that flight attendants all over Europe must stop flying immediately if they become pregnant. It seems outdated to me. Luckily, in Australia, like North America, we are more open to giving the individual some choice in the matter.