Ryanair - Poor Maintanence

[tudeski2004]

Searched the site for this story, but can't find it on here at all.

On 30th AUGUST 2005 the EXpress Newspaper ran a story about Ryanair and their poor maintanence. This came about after a regular flier noticed that the port wing of a 737 only had TWO(2) bolts in place. He took a picture of it while the plance was flying at 35,000 feet. The picture shows the top of the wing by the main body and clearly shows only TWO(2) bolts in place, where there should have been 8 ( I think it was eight anyway ). The passenger stated that the wing made a "Din" when it took off and was vibrating badly.
What caught my attention though was the Ryanair comment that " Checks with Boeing confirmed that the missing bolts posed no danger to the plane " and that " The bolts had now been replaced"
Now I am not a tech, but surly a wing missing most of it's bolts WOULD pose a danger. Are Ryanair correct or are they just trying to play down the incident.

[rubik101]

Here we go again. Fling some crap the way of the Low costs and hope some sticks! The Express is full of sh1t so I suppose some will escape by way of its readers.

[Re-Heat]

What may or may not appear to be structural or vital to even the most seasoned frequent flyer may or may not be of any importance at all to the structural integrity.

Before proceeding, and without both the photo and a verifiable 737-rated pilot or engineer on which to comment upon such a photo, this remains pure speculation and alarmism.

While I am not a professional pilot, my modicum of knowledge and private flying experience permits me to point out one thing - a large distinction between (a) the load-bearing structure connected internally and often within the wing to the wing box (if so designed), and (b) the skin itself.

I include below the full text of the article

TERRIFIED passenger John Cooper couldn't believe his eyes when he looked out of his aircraft window and saw that screws were missing from part of the wing.

So he took this shocking picture at 35,000ft of an apparent maintenance blunder by ground crew servicing the Ryanair Boeing 737.

An aviation expert warned that, if the cover housing the wing's flap mechanism had ripped free, it could have caused catastrophic damage.

The photo was taken just days before one of the worst months for air safety on record, when four jets crashed within two weeks, killing hundreds.

Engineer John had boarded the flight at Venice's Treviso Airport after a business trip and settled into a seat near the port, or left, wing for the twohour journey to Stansted.

The father of three quickly became aware of the potential for disaster when the captain fired up the engines to full power for take-off.

"I heard a tremendous din coming from the wing, " said 58year-old John. "It looked as if it was rattling around but I could not see clearly because of the vibration.

"Once we were cruising, I looked closer at the wing and engine cover and I noticed that part of the structure appeared to be held on by just a couple of screws, " said the frequent business flier. "When I had a good look I couldn't believe my eyes.

"Even though your brain is telling you 'That doesn't look quite right', you still assume that everything has been done to ensure your safety."

But when Mr Cooper studied the photograph at home in Stevenage, Hertfordshire, he realised that apparently shoddy maintenance may have exposed the 140 passengers to unnecessary risk.

"I'm not an aero-engineer so I don't know how important that part of an aircraft is, " he said.

"But if they can't be bothered to fit these screws properly in a place where it's obvious, what are they failing to do on the vital parts on the inside where we can't see?"

Chris Yates, aviation analyst for Jane's Transport, said: "This chunk of metal could have ripped off from the housing in mid-air and hit the tail, let's say the rudder. It could be catastrophic."

A Ryanair spokesman said: "We have confirmed with Boeing that the missing fasteners are not an inflight safety issue.

"It was noted on arrival and the missing fasteners were replaced."

[tudeski2004]

Rubik, what is your problem!!. I asked a simple question on a subject I did not understand. I quoted things from the paper and also the offical Ryanair resposne. Is this not what PPRUNE is about.
I look upto the pilots on here, hence I enjoy reading the stuff and when a subject comes up that I don't know about I ask. I have not slated Ryanair or accused them of anything, other than asking whether whats happened is serious or not and whether their reply was playing down the incident. Simple.
For your information I use Ryanair and do not have a problem with them at all. But if you can't bring yourself to write a polite response, then may I suggest you don't write one at all.

[rubik101]

A wing missing most of its bolts would be a danger. Just how many bolts do you think there are in a wing? The same number of nuts? For goodness sake!! Buy a different paper!

[Idunno]

While I am not a professional pilot, my modicum of knowledge and private flying experience permits me to point out one thing - a large distinction between (a) the load-bearing structure connected internally and often within the wing to the wing box (if so designed), and (b) the skin itself. Whether its load bearing or not, if there's a 'bolt' (or more likely a fastener) attaching some part of an aircraft to the rest of it, then it was put there for a damn good reason by the manufacturer and should be thus secured and maintained.

[tudeski2004]

Rubik I dont want to get into an argument. As I write this I am searching for the picture on the express website to show you. There were loads of bolts missing on this wing and it was a very clear picture. I asked a question and was shot down as many people on here seem to be. I am sorry I am not an airline pilot like you and yes it must get annoying if poeple slate the lowcosts off all the time, but I dont. I was just interested in the safety side of things.

[Icebreaker]

tudeski,

I'm sure what was seen weren't missing 'bolts' but screws securing an inspection cover or access hatch. They are referred to as 'screws' such as an AN-526 or, quite correctly as stated, this would not be a structural problem on a 737 etc
There aren't really any 'bolts' that have stuctural requirements that aren't split pinned or fitted with locknuts.
Nonetheless, as a passenger, hopefully it was reported to the cabin crew who would have informed the skipper. He/She could then direct engineering to take care of them.
More likely, some un-informed clown rang the media instead, and a journo was able to sell a newspaper. :8

[smudgethecat]

aircraft can fly with many items missing ,fairings, panels etc, what is and is not allowable is detailed in the config deviation manual/m.e.l, i recently had to despatch an aircraft with a fairly large section of flap boat fairing missing due to nil spares, no doubt had a pax noticed this he may well have reacted with horror and possibly next day a similiar uninformed story would have appeared in the press, this crap about the missing bolt is a total over reaction as usual

[CaptainFillosan]

Errrrrm! IF a wing was fitted with 8 screws - and it doesn't matter who's aircraft it is - and only 2 were in place. Why did Boeing fit 8 instead of 2 if only 2 was OK?

I would say that it DOES impinged on the integrity of the wing - it will increase vibration for one thing.

It says that the design required said screws and said screws should be fitted. OK, MOL's and MEL's have many things that are allowable but I defy anyone to show where it says that 6 screws missing from a wing series is acceptable.

And smudge it was not just one screw - was it?

[smudgethecat]

i think your missing the point ,there are many reasons why the bolts might have beeen missing it doesnt mean its unsafe the aircraft could have been flying with a concession to cover the defect who knows? without the facts wild speculation about ryanair operating unsafe aircraft is ridiculous and i very much doubt that you have the technical expertise to make such a judgement so id say with all due respect , wind yer neck in until you are in full possesion of the facts

[rubik101]

Tudeski, if you really want to know what annoys me it is your headline; Ryanair-Poor maintanence. If, as you admit, you don't know much about the subject, why not just ask; is this poor maintenance or the Daily Rubbish from the press? Get the info first then throw something their way, but only if it is warranted. To do so without having the facts is just plain, old fashioned mudslinging.

[CaptainFillosan]

I wasn't missing any point. I was making one. I said that it doesn't matter who's aircraft, or for that matter what aircraft it was. If a wing has a panel with holes for 8 screws - it should have 8 screws. Otherwise what are they there for? I certainly haven't made any wild speculation. I don't care about the facts either, I am merely entering into a discussion about missing screws on wing.

Seems I have ruffled your feathers though. Why? I doubt that you have the expertise to fly but pilots reserve the right to decide which aircraft they will fly if - for example - there are several screws missing.

Anyway, why would they come out? As an expert I suppose you should know that.

[LONGBOW1]

well said pozzy, there are far to many self proclaimed "experts" on here (who like myself )have no or limited technical knowledge, but are all to willing to wildly speculate on for instance the fact a number of bolts are missing constitutes a dangerous condition when in fact quite possibly no such danger exists, without the full facts anyone who makes claims of this nature is a fool

[smudgethecat]

capt, im not ruffled, however people who make daft assumptions based on a brief newspaper story irratate me somewhat, how can you possible know that a number of missing fastners constitutes a unairworthy condition? these bolts are most likely from a fairing or some other non structural item which the aircraft could quite happily fly with missing completley apart from a fuel penalty ,so lets stop being silly, and for your info as well as a holding a caa aircraft maintenence engineers licence i hold a ppl which means i can actually fix em as well as fly em ,finally boeing (who we can assume are the experts) have stated there was no problem so lets leave it at that

[Flying Torquewrench]

From the outside you are NOT able to see the bolts that attach the wing to the rest of the structure. However you might have seen some screws missing from a wing to body fairing. Missing thse screw does not infringe the safety of said wing structure. As mentioned you may get a little bit vibration but nothing serious at all. Aircraft are allowed to fly with certain panels missing. In this case the panel is still attached to the airframe by two screws so whats the problem?

I've had passengers coming up to me (ground engineer) telling me that they saw a big bolt coming out of the engine pylon. So they feared the engine was going to fall off. But the only thing you see on the outside of a pylon are the screws that hold down the panels. And even between these panels there is no room for a big bolt to fly through.

Please don't make such a fuss about it.

[rubik101]

tudeski, would you care to comment as to why you chose to headline the thread, Ryanair-Poor Maintenance. I omit the question mark because so did you,