LOW hours VS Flight Instructer hours

[MDC123]

Hello, wondering what thoughts people have on getting work with low hours vs FI hours?


FTO's have many schemes where they want to keep you on as a FI to build hours on poor pay but is this worthwhile?

At the end of the day do all those hours doing a basic PPL circuit really count for much when applying for a jet job or is ones time and money better invested in MCC/JOC and even (dare I say it?) a TR with LOFT????

[FlyingForFun]

If you want to be an instructor, then get an FI rating, and find yourself an instructor job. The pay will be low, but probably not as low as if you allow one of the CPL schools to pursuade you to do the course with them and then work with them for pennies afterwards.

Many airlines specifiy a minimum amount of total time for job applications, and instruction can certainly help you get to this minimum time. But aside from simple hours in the log book, it has far more benefits which go beyond "doing a basic PPL circuit". It will improve your handling skills in all phases of flight, especially very close to the runway. You will have to make weather decisions which are often more complex than those airline pilots have to make, taking into account not just your limits and/or your company's limits, but also your student's capabilities. You will become used to flying for several hours a day, happy about sharing cockpit duties with someone else, and confident using the radio.

But, on the other hand, if you don't actually want to be an instructor, don't like flying light aircraft, don't have the patience to work with someone who's struggling to learn to land, then don't bother.

FFF
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[smith]

Do airlines not "factor" FI hours? i.e. as an instructor there may be training flights where you will not actually touch the controls or the radio throughout the whole flight and others where you only demonstrate a stall or two.

I think some airlines only credit you for 25% of FI hours eg 100 FI hours will only be credited as 25 hours for the above reason. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers

Smith

[B2N2]

OK, this is one of these that REALLY gets me going.
Where the :mad: do people get these idiot ideas?
Is that how you see YOUR FI?
Just bumming around gathering worthless hours?
The worst attitude a FI can have is hours for free but that is the end result.
You don't pay for your flying anymore, actually hold a job in aviation and build your experience instructing other people which is high on the responsibility scale.
Even if you do not physically have control of the airplane all the time YOU are pic and finally responsible for the safe outcome of the flight.
Probably one of the best ways to prepare for an Multi-Crew environment.
Where else do you learn how to deal with different people every day, some of them difficult, outright impossible or even incompetent.
A simulator during an MCC? Don't make me laugh.....:yuk:
Even if they only count 25%(which is idiotic), that's 25% of hours that you did not have to pay for, you worked.
"...doing a basic PPL circuit..." there is no such thing.
Vaguely remember your own flight training MDC? The many times the instructor had to take control, to advise you, teach you ?
In 5 years of flight instruction (5000hrs)
one blown tire thank you very much.
At least you posted in the right forum.....
:E (wannabes)

[Thunor]

Great post B2N2 - Couldn't agree with you more!

[smith]

B2N2

Keep you hair on, I said correct me if I'm wrong. I was just quoting what my instructor told me about factored hours. Anyway if you look at the easyjet application, they have a list of factors eg mil, rotary, gliders etc:oh:

And yes, my opinion of some of the instructors I've had in the US is exactly that "bumming around getting hours for free", they have as much interest in me or my flying a I don't know what and are basically getting the hours so that they can then go for their ATP. And please read carefully I say "some" not all of the instructors I've had are like this, so I am not tarring you all with the same brush but the can of worms had been opened. Would say the attitude of the instructors in the UK is far better than the US sausage factories. Sorry if I upset anyone but I'm only speaking from my experiences.:ouch:

Smith

['I' in the sky]

Never heard of an airline that factors specifically instructor hours and have only ever come across easyjet who factor all hours.

[mattd2k]

B2N2, Great post and I agree with you whole-heartedly. I have to admit that 2 years ago just before I started my flight training I saw working as an FI just as a way to build hours to help me get an airline position. However, as my training progressed my attitude changed. Having now worked for 6 weeks as an FI, I feel my flying skills have improved more in the last 90 hours than in the previous 300. Teaching others means you really have to know your stuff.

Smith, I believe that the factoring you talk about is done by Easyjet but I haven’t heard of any other airlines doing, although I stand to be shot down in flames about this.

[B2N2]

Wasn't really meant as a personal attack Smith, more a general rant.
Sorry to hear about your experiences in the US.
Trust me, a lot of schools are not like that.
You could have just been unlucky, care to elaborate?
I can only speak of the US in this case;
some regional airlines require you hold a flying job before they even invite you for an interview.
Some favour FI's, guess it depends also who you have in the HR department.
I'm guessing Easyjet just want to have a look at all your experience everything aviation related not just your total time.
Can give an impression of how creative and motivated you are.

[birdlady]

I can certainly relate to Smith's dilema about ''hour building'' instructors. I think there's nothing worse. I feel that the airlines are partly to blame here. With such high entry requirements how else is a person supposed to build hours??? Standards of instructing (FOR SOME) are droped because the person just doesnt have the passion or inclination to go that extra mile... the result .... training standards are dropped - Ive seen it time and again. Instructing also brings a good understanding of all the technical aspects of flying.

Just my 2c worth :ok: :ok:

[Number Cruncher]

Standards of instructing (FOR SOME) are droped because the person just doesnt have the passion or inclination to go that extra mile

Agree with this to an extent, but i don't think its the case when it comes to instructors teaching CPL/IR - where it really matters.

[smith]

No worries B2N2, didn't take any offence, I totally agree with you that instructing will give you great experience of very unusual situations.

Conversation with my UK instructor: me "How many hours have you got now?" Instructor " X thousand, but the airlines factor that by x% as sometimes I don't ever touch the controls." That is where I based my original post from.

As I say some but not all FI's I've had are there merely to get hours in the log book, if I am not happy I will change, and I have also had experience of many excellent and concientious FIs.

My experience of these "hours bummers" is in the JAA haven that is Florida, in some of the many PPL sausage factories that exist down there. Its hard enough getting their names out of them let alone give yu feed back on your flying!

Anyway, I can't believe the devastation that has happened on the Gulf Coast, I think many people including myself had underestimated the power of the hurricane. My thoughts are with the people of your country right now.