Night Rating with IR?!

[metar]

Hey all - quick bit of advice / confirmation required!

If you do five hours of flight training at night whilst doing your IR is it true that you do not need a separate night rating for issue of your CPL/IR?

All thoughts appreciated... that is what an FTO in Spain has told me.

[LFS]

You can combine a night rating with a CPL course (ie making the course 5 hours longer) but not with an IR course, you should have the night rating before doing the IR.

[metar]

Are the requirements likely to be different in Spain - he seemed fairly adamant that I could do an IR with them without a night rating and then my IR supersedes the need for one. There is 5 hours of night-time instrument flying as part of the course...

PANIC!

[LFS]

Its a possibility, (there isn't complete harmony between JAR States). Its certainly something we wouldn't do here but I couldn't comment on the rules under the Spanish. The rules that apply to you are basically whoever is issueing your IR, if you are adding it to a UK JAA licence and want the CAA to add it to your licence then you will need to meet their requirements for the issue.

[metar]

That makes sense - I do want it added to my UK license. Don't suppose anyone can knock me up a night rating in the next couple of weeks?!

[Liquorice Allsorts]

metar

It wasn't a certain JW at a school SW of Madrid who mentioned this to you was it, as he also told me the same thing?

I'm also looking at doing the IR with them around the end of September before heading back to the UK to do the reduced hours CPL course.


Dylan,

Having looked at Lasors it doesn't mention anything about needing the rating before doing the IR course, only about needing it to apply for the rating (or having a CPL).

i.e. All applicants must hold a PPL(A) including a Night Qualification/Rating or a CPL(A), and a Flight Radiotelephony Operator’s Licence.

If 5 hours of dual night have been done on the IR in Spain, then surely you only need to ensure that the 5 solo take-offs and full-stop landings have been done in addition to satisfy the requirements in Lasors D1.2(D) (c)

i.e. 5 hours Night Flying comprising of at least 3 hours of dual instruction, including at least 1 hour of cross-country navigation, and 5 solo take-offs and full-stop landings.

It would be a lot cheaper to do an extra hour of night solo in Spain than to do a full night rating in the UK.

Also, presumably, if the plan is to do the CPL straight after the IR in the UK, then you wouldn't even need to apply to the CAA to get the night rating added to the PPL as long as the night requirements above are met when applying for the CPL/IR together?

Liquorice

[edited for formatting]

[metar]

Liquorice...

Yes indeed it was a certain JW that mentioned it. I think my take on it is pretty much the same as yours.

I just don't want to return to the UK with an IR pass certificate to find that it isn't valid as I didn't have a night rating before I did the training. I don't mind doing one back in the UK but trying to get one done at this time of year is impossible!

Do PM me if you get a second!

METAR

[BillieBob]

Yet another example of the inaccuracy of LASORS, I'm afraid. Appendix 1 to JAR-FCL 1.205 states "An applicant for a modular IR(A) course shall be the holder of a PPL(A) or a CPL(A), either licence to include the privileges to fly by night, issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1.".

Thus a night qualification is clearly a pre-requisite for entry to the modular IR course.

[Liquorice Allsorts]

BillieBob,

Thanks for that, I hadn't thought to check out the JARs as I presumed LASORS would be the "definitive" guide.

It raises a question though that if a night rating is a pre-requisite requirement according to JAR-FCL1, why is this Spanish FTO able to claim that it provides JAA modular professional flight training to meet the requirements of JAR-FCL 1, yet doesn't require a night rating prior to starting the course? It also claims to hold a JAA FTO Approval Certificate (E-FTO 19).


metar,

I do know of one place in the Yorkshire area that will be able to offer a night rating around the end of August spread over a couple of nights (3), if you are interested. It looks like I may need to do one as well :{

[metar]

Certainly interested... looks like I am going to need it! Can you PM me with details?

Oh and should we be questioning the flight school in question?!

METAR

[Liquorice Allsorts]

metar

PM sent.

I think some further clarification needs to be sought from JW because as you say, its a hell of a lot of money to spend only to find out your IR pass certificate is worthless.