Frecce T - A display question

[Conan the Librarian]

Having watched in wonder yet again the Frecce Tricolori at Fairford, I am wondering yet again, how one of the manouvres is flown. I reckon that this has to be a good place to ask.

The mindboggler in question, is the ten way crossover, with the whole team breaking from a bomb burst and coming back in pairs, with all ten crossing simultaneously over display centre, including at angles off datum. How is it flown safely? I know that many of you were at RIAT and saw it, so in that hope, I hand it over to you.

I have been wondering about this one since about 1989 and am still none the wiser.

regards,

Conan

[southside]

Anyone got a pic or video of this manoeuvre?

[Conan the Librarian]

I should have been able to supply a pic - or vid - but as it all happens directly above me, I simply have to stop and watch, as I have since that first time that I saw it so long ago.

Regards,

Conan

[Bo Nalls]

My 1st place to look would be their website (http://www.freccetricolori.org/manovre.asp?fig=15&show=si) ;)

[Conan the Librarian]

Well done Bo - the site wouldn't come up for me. That illustrates things bootifully :-) Question now, is how they calculate clerances at the moment critique - and it doesn't seem far....


many Ts

Conan

[BOAC]

Without wishing to belittle the manoeuvre in any way, looking at their site it is not TOO difficult, as one pair would cross above with the next stepped up on that, each of the two pairs 'missing' each other in 'normal' fashion. Height separation can be sorted with just 3 effective 'units', while the remaining L to R 'main' 5 fly laterally separated. Timing is another problem altogether! It does look, however, to be pretty complex and if it worked at RIAT, hat off to them!

We tried a 7 ship crossover from a diverging formation half-loop on the Reds (in the late Frank Hoare's time) using a complex 'calculator' (two bits of graduated card held together with a staple:D ) basing individual 'pull-through' timing on forecast wind, but it proved too difficult to guarantee a reasonable close cross time-wise and with 7 stacked fairly tightly vertically crowd front it was decided it was too risky. Theirs also appears to have an on-crowd 'risk' element? I vividly remember one of ours that went amazingly well and the effect in the cockpit (never mind the crowd :D) was stunning :ok: - made me eyes water, it did:D - next best thing to..........................

[Conan the Librarian]

It all looks very narrow from underneath - often when viewed from landside it looks very close - but from underneathand with this, it is an awesome sight. Thing is, that timing whilst ever important -looks secondary. It looks like A/C from all over the shop slicing through with only 100 -150 ft vertical separation and from all angles.

How is height worked out and if something ever did get out of shape, what are the escape routes? Where are the margins? Must be bad enough having one come at you - but another eight or nine?

Thanks for sharing your experience BOAC - (Frank Hoare - 70? 71?) Just what I was hoping to get. Anyone else?

If they played Cricket - they would be Australian.

Stunning and flowing display... If they are at RIAT, everything else to me, is bunce.

many Ts


Conan

[aerolearner]

The crossing involves nine aircraft (the whole team minus the solo).
Regarding those 4 aircraft that cross the field at 45°, as soon as they complete the crossing they turn and join the other two sections without overflying the public. They end up with a 4-aircraft section and a 5-aircraft section.

[normally right blank]

I've got a fine "cross over" pic somewhere of the Frecce from the late nineties (Skrydstrup, Denmark). (70 mm lens). (Pure Luck).

When they pull up 3 each "end" smoke on and turn back - just relax and enjoy it! Old American teams loved it also. Copied by f.ex. Swedish J-29's and J-35's (?). It doesn't have to be perfect to impress Mr. "Public".

1977 Greenham IAT. Red's 1.000'th display (?). (Gnats). I know what you mean BOAC. They got it perfectly "stacked" - almost.

Best regards

P.S.
Must point out the 1977 Greenham show aimed to put 6 (?) Gnats over the same point - at the same time!

(Old men forget.. :( )

[BOAC]

NRB - with the caveat that "Old men forget.." it should have been 7 - ie the formation minus the synchro pair. Without looking at my logbook I cannot confirm whether we had 'lost one' for tech reasons. 'Escape routes' was one of the reasons we dropped the manoeuvre plus the difficulty in getting it 'right' as we were trying t get 7 individual 'units' together rather than 3. Greenham was the 1000th as you say.

Nice to hear from you, and hopefully that answers your PM Conan - so you will not have seen me then. Frank came back as team leader in 1977/8. I think, however, that it might have been '69 when I back-seated with Dickie Duckett at Teesside. Again logbook check required and I ain't going into the attic!

[normally right blank]

7 of course :O

Anyway my favourite was the "Vixen break" which I got a perfect shot of the year before. (Having cleverly positioned myself at the display datum.)

The Red Arrows has been my personal favourites since I just had to stay a few minutes after the school bell ended the break sometime in 1966/67? (Which was simply not done in those days!). (4 NM north of AS Karup). My father, aircraft mechanic same place, telling in the evening how he got onto a small scaffolding to watch the show - and looked down into one of the Gnat cockpits. :cool: