View Full Version : The Harry and Sally Syndrome


EDDNHopper
15th Jul 2005, 06:26
Men and women canīt be best mates because, at one point, sex will always become a factor. As soon as that happens, a woman canīt be the best friend of a man any more, and vice versa.

Iīm a firm believer in that, have discussed that with friends (both male and female) over many years, and found that most people agreed.

I have yet to find somebody who will convince me that Harry and me are wrong.



Grainger
15th Jul 2005, 09:11
Not sure I totally agree. I have many many female friends and, while I admit that I do have occasional carnal intentions for one or two of them, most are firmly in the "best mates" category. Most of the time it's "I don't fancy you and you don't fancy me, so let's just get on with being friends"

Let's face it, half of the human population are the opposite sex, so it's inevitable that you're going to be friends with some of them - doesn't mean that you're automatically going to want to jump each other's bones.

Where it goes horribly wrong of course is when one of you feels that way and the other doesn't. Welcome to a pure living hell.

Taildragger55
15th Jul 2005, 09:26
Nope, you're wrong. My best mate has travelled to two other continents with me, financed me when I was unemployed, borne me (or someone anyway) some children, given me valuable career advice when I needed, skydived with me, and after a quarter of a century we still enjoy being with each other.
(Sex has occasionally been involved)
If you have nothing in common with someone but sex the relationship ain't got a future.
Friendship with the opposite sex is much easier when one of you makes it clear that sex is not on the cards.

Earthmover
15th Jul 2005, 10:01
Spot on Taildragger ... Lady EM is the very best friend I've ever had - and she was exactly that for 5 years before we totally surprised each other by moving up a gear - the friendship has gloriously survived the rumpy-pumpy!!!

tall and tasty
15th Jul 2005, 10:03
Hate to say it I agree with Grainger and taildragger

I have more male friends than female and certainly have not slept with them. I get on better with the male sense of humour etc. Maybe cos my working career has been male orientated. I did a degree were I was the only girl doing the honours and just prefer to be around them.

It has its drawbacks cos if there is anyone you do fancy they think you are taken as you are with a group of guys. But that is life.

If you have nothing in common with someone but sex the relationship ain't got a future.

I agree with that too and one of the reasons now why I am single.

TnT :p

RaraAvis
15th Jul 2005, 10:18
Tricky one.

From a female point of view, I believe it's easy to be a friend with a guy and absolutely not fancy him at all.
Personally, you either get those delicious carnal vibes or you don't. In the latter case you can still adore the person in question - in a purely platonic manner.

Guess there's no absolute rule, everything being individual and all, but think it might be quite different from a male perspective.

Have to admit, couple of my good male friends have let it slip, generally after a drink or two too many that they were harboring a bit different feelings towards me then let on. It came as a real shock the first time, but after a while you get good at reading those little signs, hence - more prepared to handle the awkward situation if and when it happens.
One can simply laugh it off, blame all on the booze and act extra buddy-like. Knowing well what the real story is but not wanting to lose a friend by rejecting him.

How long such situation can last really depends on the people involved.
Sometimes a real, long-lasting friendship can develop when both sides realize where they stand, and accept it. Occasional banter and teasing and a bit of an innocent flirt ensues, but that's all.

Now, being friends with people who are in the relationship is a totally different ballgame, it's given that friendship is purely platonic.

Onan the Clumsy
15th Jul 2005, 13:06
I've got loads of female friends and it works out wonderfully. Sex never seems to get in the way, but they've taught me loads about colour and accesorising...and they're great company to go shopping with for shoes.

effortless
15th Jul 2005, 13:18
Most of my friends are female. I spend more time talking to the women at a party than the men. Mind you I have nothing to say about footy or cricket. This said, if I am honest, given the chance, I would sleep with everyone of them who is not married to someone I know. Men do not have female friends, just women with whom they haven't yet had sex. It's very basic and there are sound Darwinian reasons for it. http://www.security-forums.com/forum/images/smiles/new_icon_kissy.gif

Widger
15th Jul 2005, 14:33
Effortless,

I totally agree. Sex will always be there. It is only society and self discipline that prevent the caveman instinct coming out!

Be wary of wives with good friends who are male....unless they are totally 100% gay.

In fact that is probably a good matra for all married men. Make sure all of your friends are Gay!

:ok: :ok: :uhoh:

BlueDiamond
15th Jul 2005, 14:50
Your friends are your friends. Whether they are men or women is completely irrelevant. Having a friendly relationship with someone you fancy is a different thing altogether. Between real friends there is never even the least suggestion of sex. That is not what friendship is about; brother/sister yes, boyfriend/girlfriend no.

Binoculars
15th Jul 2005, 14:52
I'm very much afraid that only a woman could suggest that, Bluey. Not to put too fine a point on it, you are wrong. :uhoh:

topcat450
15th Jul 2005, 15:07
Binos, Widger and Effortless are all correct. Its a matter of fact. Women can view things differently, and believe they have males friends.. and they do. However, give those male friends a chance of banging you and they will.. they will do. They have all pictured you naked at some point and wondered what you'd be like in the sack. :)

Jerricho
15th Jul 2005, 15:09
You sure they're female friends Onan?

tall and tasty
15th Jul 2005, 15:11
They have all pictured you naked at some point and wondered what you'd be like in the sack.

now how can I look at any of my male friends in the same light after that :(

TnT

BlueDiamond
15th Jul 2005, 15:16
No, I'm not wrong. But I agree that you can not have a true friendship with someone you fancy ... that's just pretending to be friends while having ulterior motives.

Onan the Clumsy
15th Jul 2005, 15:23
I could never see my sistas as sex objects, not after I've held their hand and reassured them through a really bad episode of cramps, or stayed up all night crying with them and eating ice cream after someone they thought was a friend tried to boink them.

Jerricho
15th Jul 2005, 15:24
Ahhh, just like that Tasmanian family saying:

"If she's not good enough for her family, she's not good enough for you"

Darth Nigel
15th Jul 2005, 15:35
But I agree that you can not have a true friendship with someone you fancy

Bluey, I think you're wrong here. Not that I have many friends, but there are at least a couple that I am friendly with, have occasionally skinny-dipped or hot-tubbed with (in the company of several drunken theatre-folk) and with whom I have contemplated the carnal conjunction conundrum. :cool:

Trick is to isolate the carnal cravings from the friendship, and not manipulate the one to achieve the other. And never agree to anything while drunk that you wouldn't surely agree to sober.

Perhaps a more serious answer than the subject warrants, but I've never found it easy to cope with being a sex magnet :cool:

Edited after the fact: I think the first sentence would be better expressed as
"Bluey, I disagree with your position." DN

BlueDiamond
15th Jul 2005, 15:42
Understand what you're saying, Darth but the point I'm making is that there is no need to separate "the carnal cravings from the friendship" because those cravings don't feature in your relationships with your buddies.

effortless
15th Jul 2005, 15:50
No, I'm not wrong. But I agree that you can not have a true friendship with someone you fancy ... that's just pretending to be friends while having ulterior motives.

But that is the point, we males do pretend; mainly to ourselves. It is the best strategy for getting laid known. http://www.security-forums.com/forum/images/smiles/new_icon_wave.gif

Remember; if you can fake sincerity you can fake anything.:}

tony draper
15th Jul 2005, 16:05
Nobbin yer best mates wife is still ok though int it?
:uhoh:

Onan the Clumsy
15th Jul 2005, 16:09
Of course. It'd be just like mowing his lawn of decorating his front bedroom for him.

One less job for him to have to do :ok:

timmcat
15th Jul 2005, 16:23
However, give those male friends a chance of banging you and they will.. they will do.
Genuinely disagree TC. Risking taking the relationship to 'the next level' can ruin a valuable close friendship forever, so even if one had 'wondered', many would not risk the possible permanant damage.

topcat450
15th Jul 2005, 16:24
Timm the only you reason you haven't is because they wouldn't. :}

EDDNHopper
16th Jul 2005, 10:51
timmcat and my dearest Madame BD,
Risking taking the relationship to 'the next level' can ruin a valuable close friendship forever

That is exactly the point. It doesnīt matter so much whether you really end up in bed together (well, it does to a certain point...), it is the thought alone. It is the very need to refrain from the "next move" that can already downgrade a best friendship to a merely good friendship.

One exception though, maybe: Both know, share the same thoughts, and (secretly?) agree that they will never let it happen, e.g. because they are both happy with their wive/husband/kids, ect. Absolute mutual agreement necessary.

Rwy in Sight
16th Jul 2005, 13:10
The idea is that friends should / must share common expreince. So if both friends go over a long spell of being without relation, having sex have plenty of advantages (mainly it reminds to both of them how is sex).

The critical issue is when one of the friends considers sex as an initial point of a relation.

Rwy in Sight

BlueDiamond
16th Jul 2005, 13:47
I have a feeling we may actually be talking about two different things here. The way I see it, you can have a friendly and close relationship with lots of people, some of whom may be people you fancy and, as some folk have said, given the chance, you might be persuaded to take things to a different stage.

But the friendship I am talking about is the friendship between two people who are entirely comfortable with each other and who share a relationship of an extremely close nature. Within this relationship there is room for many things; honesty, respect, love, sharing and understanding, to name a few. There is no room for sex because such thoughts can not exist within the framework of the friendship I am talking about. Your partner/spouse/lover is the person you turn to for sex (and yes, THAT relationship can include friendship) but your friends are your friends and, to my mind, the idea of sex with a friend has no more appeal than the idea of sex with a brother or sister ... it just doesn't even occur to genuine friends to have those ideas about each other. It would be distasteful no matter how attractive the other person might be.

Perhaps those of you who feel otherwise just haven't had a real friendship with a member of the opposite sex yet. Perhaps what you thought was friendship was simply a friendly and close relationship ... as I see it, there is a big difference.

EDDNHopper
16th Jul 2005, 14:16
There is no room for sex because such thoughts can not exist within the framework of the friendship I am talking about.

Iīm not so sure, Iīm not so sure. I like your comparison with having sex with your brother or sister. But then again, the closest mate will still be somebody other than your brother or sister. Itīs friendship on a different level, somehow.

And yes, Mme. Diamond, I think I have had real friendships, and still have. But I can see your point.

redsnail
16th Jul 2005, 23:25
Yeah I'm mates with quite a few blokes and many of them are what you'd say close friends. While I wouldn't bonk them I must admit that I have wondered just what they'd be like naked. Since they're mates I wouldn't enact those thoughts.
It would wreck the friendship. Even if it didn't wreck it, it would change it in a way that is impossible to turn back.

Some of these blokes have been bonk buddies but the bonking's finished (mainly cos neither of us are single) and the friendship's endured.

I'm about to marry my best mate so that's good then. :D