Growbags on ground-tours?

[WSO1]

Just to guage your opinions please- should aircrew wear flying suits when on ground-tours as STC/ SFSO/ Stn OpsO/ etc? Some like to get into blues for a change- others must wear wings at all times (including civies, as I've seen!!!!).

[Tonkenna]

Not fussed either way with the flying suit... they are comfy. The wings thing is something else. I worked bl00dy hard to get them and am immensley proud to wear them. I should be able to have them on all uniform. The Regt Flt and Police Flt have shoulder flashes, the Padre has his "thing" what ever it is... why can I not have wings on a shirt. Many other airforces do.

I know that won't be a popular view by the groundies but I don't care :)

Tonks

[ZH875]

As a 'Groundie' I do not care if aircrew (of whatever 'wing') wish to wear their 'Trade' badges on whatever bit of uniform they choose. I just cannot fathom out why they wear growbags when they are filling a desk job and have no (or virtually no) chance of flying during the shift.

We cannot all wear our hard earned trade badges all the time, but surely 'Flying Clothing' is just that, clothing for flying.

'Groundies' are not allowed to wear coveralls when wandering around the station (or Tesco's for that matter) so why should aircrew be treated different.

I appreciate that some of the Pie Eating variety of growbag wearers cannot afford the operation to remove their growbags.

I worked as hard as I could at skool, but contrary to the belief of the one winged wonders, not everybody who joins the RAF wants to fly.

[akula]

I have to fully agree with Tonks on this one, on the wearing of the flying coverall though some are a bit more presentable than others and may well be suited to the H&S free world while airborne due to the high MRSA levels in the armpits.
No2 dress should definitely have some insignia applied to show that the wearer is a fully fledged member of the master race, aircrew are after all what the Air Force is all about:ok: :ok:


ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[Climebear]

'Groundies' are not allowed to wear coveralls when wandering around the station (or Tesco's for that matter) so why should aircrew be treated different.

To be pedantic there is a difference, coveralls are not a order of uniform - flying suits are - no14 dress if my very trivial memory serves me correctly.

That said, I don't really care. As long as we can do our function - the projection of air power - the rest is trivia. Does this issue effect the product?

[santiago15]

I thought flying suits were not classed as uniform. I know the rules at ISK dictate you can wear blues off station but not flying suits. I heard the reason for this was that growbags are not considered to be uniform??

[Mad_Mark]

'Groundies' are not allowed to wear coveralls when wandering around the station (or Tesco's for that matter) so why should aircrew be treated different.

Further to the comments already made about this quote, unlike groundcrew coveralls, flying suits are NOT meant to be worn over the top of No.2 working dress to protect it. If a groundie is dressed correctly he can simply take his coverall off and walk around in his No. 2's. If an aircrew guys simply takes his 'coverall' off he will be walking around in long-johns and green roll-neck! And before any groundie says it, I know many don't wear their No. 2's under their coveralls, but that is through choice rather than applying correct dress code.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[Zoom]

No flying suits unless in a flying job.

Enamel 'brooch-style' flying badges for shirts, etc.

[Climebear]

santiago15

Flying kit is definitely Uniform No14 dress - AP1358 Chap 6 refers. (and yes I am that sad to have checked)

However, juts because it is an order of dress it does not mean that Commanders cannot restrict its use. After all, you are not allowed to fly fighters wearing No1 Uniform anymore (even if you do undo the top button).

As an aside, if flying kit was not uniform: then when our brave aviators jumped out of their burning steeds over enemy lines they would not be entitled to be treated as prisoners of war. Geneva Conventions require nations to distinguise between combatants and non-combatants - this is partly achieved through the medium of uniform!

[EESDL]

Before the Blunties set off ........

.......made a point of wearing a flying suit whilst on the Ground because I joined the Royal AIR Force, not the Royal GROUND Force.

Just like to remind people that we were a fighting force some some vehicle to collect as many IIP, H&S, Toilet Management blah blaf certificates.

[Pontius Navigator]

Sorry to intrude, but when I last looked there was only one flying suit. It had trousers and a jacket. All the one piece growbags are called 'flying coveralls'. The difference between air and ground growbags is probably just in the fire retardant properties. {I am not talking cut, style, fabric etc just the name}

At ISL once two of us, in flying suits, the rest in the bar in coveralls, weer told to take our jackets off. We did.

We were resplendent in green shirts, green pully and braces on top - no rank badges as the pully does not have sliders.

Put your jackets back on we were told. no ranh badges was too casual. :}

[SteveStephens]

Climebear

I note you fail to quote the rest of the regulations on No 14 dress

"0602. Occasions for wear. No 14 Dress is worn by all ranks, when actively employed on flying duties unless otherwise ordered. It is not to be worn routinely in off base areas (See Chap 1, Para 0110 regarding travel to and from work). It is not to be worn in public areas of Officers' or Sergeants' Messes after 1900 hrs daily. When employed on ground administrative duties or when a standard dress is ordered, aircrew personnel
should wear the standard RAF No 2 Dress."

[Climebear]

SteveStephens

I didn't quote it because I was simply addressing the question as to whether it was uniform. As my original post states, I don't care (I am not aircrew so the decision doesn't matter to me at all). The restrictions on wearing the order of dress for specific duties are not unique to No14 dress.

EESDL

Before you take a swipe at Blunties - you don't need a flying suit to be reminded that you are in a fighting force. Last time I looked down the barrel of an AK, wondering if the drunk militia man was going to pull the trigger, I was fairly convinced of my vocation. I didn't even need an electronic warning that a lump of lead moving quite quickly would possibly impact with my skull if he did.

As my first post stated, the key issue is the prosecution of air power whether that be kinetic or non-kinetic, manned or un-manned, fixed-wing or rotary, etc. However, it takes more than the operator of the weapons system to deliver effect from the air.

Oh, and since you raised the issue of blunties remember that decisions on orders of uniforms are made by their airships who are (correctly), predominantly aviators.

[Vim_Fuego]

Moving slightly away from the thread subject but from experience if I was to rock up on a day I was'nt down on the program to fly, wearing my freshly laundered and pressed no.2's, 80% of the time I would be driving back home within the hour to get into flying kit to fill in for the short fall of people at this cold, well to the North airbase.

As most of us had a house (for this base was in an area where you could still afford houses etc) rather than residing in the mess or quarters it could be a substantial drive so for most of the time I was in flying gear and nobody seemed too bothered.

Now I'm in a ground tour well south of this location where I generally wear blues..Don't have a problem with this except I had to take them all to a proper tailor in town so they actually fitted. The extra expence was worth it to not let everyone see my socks all day!

On the wing subject I also worked hard for mine and did hear of the little metal pin-on version that maybe coming our way...I'm proud of what I've acheived and would wear it..Anyone know what happened to the idea??

[truckiebloke]

i like to wear my flying suit for a few reasons really. Firstly, i am proud to be a pilot in the RAF and the flying suit and wings make you stand out as a pilot.

I think they are more comfy than blues and to be honest, i hate blues. The one or two occasions i have to wear them in the year, i struggle to find the cupboard they are thrown into from the last time.

But also, does it really matter as long as it is clean and smart!!

[soddim]

There is, I believe, an issue here that relates to expense borne by the public purse. Flying suits are expensive items and the cost of replacement falls on the public purse. Unless officers uniform allowance has changed, replacement falls on the individual. So why do aircrew not on flying duties get clothed for free by the taxpayer?

Having said that, I was privvy to a remark by an American widow to her late husband's commanding officer as she left the memorial service following his demise in a flying accident: " My husband's flying suit was good enough for him to die in but not to wear in your goddam o-club!"

An emotive subject indeed.

[truckiebloke]

i'll remember the cost of wearing my flying suit this week, when watching the g8 summit.

All those politicians, flown first class around the world, with all their followers, on max allowances, being driven everywhere, posh dinners and of course 5 star hotels.......

or maybe when Gordon Brown writes off another lot of debt, so that the african leaders can abuse a whole lot more money on flash cars etc etc

cost is always on my mind these days...

[Tonkenna]

Flying suits are expensive items

Yes they are, but a couple of mine are 10 years old and still going strong;)

Tonks:)

[Climebear]

Soddim

Unless officers uniform allowance has changed, replacement falls on the individual. So why do aircrew not on flying duties get clothed for free by the taxpayer?

Why not? Those officers who work in RAF No3 Combat dress ( ie greens or CS95) don't have to pay for their working dress either - that includes most of the Army. Should we charge them for replacing those items or only for wear an tear incurred during normal work and not for wear and tear on the same clothes incurred during exercises/operations. - This is not an invitation to reopen the shouldn't wear CS95 when not on ex/ops debate.

This thread is getting silly now.

[BEagle]

Perhaps if the old-style barathea battle dress (not the awful mid-70s Thunderbird smock) was still worn (particularly the aircrew-only version as once was issued to V-bomber crews) instead of that stupid pullover, people might want to wear it?

It was smart, showed wings and medals and was very comfy. The aircrew-only version had flying suit style zip pockets instead of buttoned patch pockets and the epaulettes were sewn down. It looked very cool; all the comfort of a growbag with the style of a proper uniform.

I hadn't worn a v-necked pullover with a tie as my working uniform since leaving prep school in 1963 until some blunt fool came up with that useless NATO pullover. Hardly surprising that aircrew don't want to wear the b£oody thing.

Aircrew leather jacket, wedgewood shirt and lightweight No2 trousers was comfortable, practical and really pi$$ed off such oxygen thieves as SWOs and other bell ends! Particularly when worn with flying boots...

[Red Line Entry]

This type of thread crops up regularly on PPrune and is invariably populated either by pillocks declaring how important they are in relation to mere "blunties" or by ground-pounders clearly envious of their aircrew bretheren.

Is it jolly banter or is it purile nonsense? My vote goes for the latter. I don't give a rat's goolies what you want to wear to work, just for God's sake be effective when you're there (something which those prima donnas on both sides probably fail to be).

[Magic Mushroom]

In many cases, the wearing of flying suits has practical benefits also. For instance, if deployed to work at a CAOC, individuals can immediately see what you fly without having to ask 'are you the AWACS rep?' Additionally, when working with the Spams, unless you ARE in a growbag - rightly or wrongly - you are assumed NOT to be aircrew. Likewise, although we rip the pi$$ out of them, when you walk into AWC to discuss (for example) Harrier CAS, you can immediately see who to talk to.

As far as the leather jacket goes, why the hell aren't we allowed to wear it with blues?! It looks very smart with blues (certainly a lot smarter than that cheap, tacky blue thing), and is comfortable and practical in most weathers.

If non aircrew don't like the idea of only aircrew being allowed to wear leather jackets then let them have one but obviously without the brevet.

Regards,
MM

[Climebear]

Red Line Entry

Well said

[Father Jack Hackett]

Feel a bit self-conscious replying to this thread as it really doesn't affect the price of monkeys.

However my attitude to it is; if your on the ground as aircrew in a flying related job/task (S Nav O, CAOC, Flying display coordinator etc) then it is highly appropriate to wear your flying suit.

Throughout the history of uniformed forces, the recognisability of your function in life by the manner of your uniform has been an important and practical issue, eg red flashes and cap-bands for army staff officers, white caps for the scuffers and so on.

However if theres no good reason for wearing your green bag then it's time to raid your loft insultion.

[Charlie Luncher]

I do hope you get the metal pin badges so like me you can spend that extra 5 mins in the morning putting your shirt together quite hard with the DT's. Plus the blunties will need a badge to say the are deployable thus then important:8 .
But then I can wear my shirt without the gortex/fleece. :ok:
Blues are for girls and the queers in the rear with the gear, go on what you got?????
Charlie sends

[EESDL]

Clime Bear
I do believe you were serious!!
Must have been a slow flying day where you work, bad weather?

Blunties area part of RAF history and are the grease for the machine. If you seriously think that the Senior Ranks retain their pilot attitude after such a long period away from the cockpit and they have a clue as to what they sign when it's pushed in front of them, then you just need to see the state of the RAF as it is today to realise that you may be taking this thread a tad too seriously!

Safe flying

[Training Risky]

I see myself as a pilot on a very, very, very loooong ground tour......:(

I now have to wear blues/CS95 as daily working dress. Of course I would love to wear a grobag every day and if asked, my boss might even let me, but I do not because:

1. I no longer fly routinely,
2. If I did, the other aircrew would banter me mercilessly.

I have met many aircrew around the RAF and Navy who have absolutely no chance of flying during the day, don't need to have their ac type identified, but still wear grobags.... and I understand it completely: BECAUSE IT IS COMFORTABLE AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO IRON IT OR BULL YOUR BOOTS!

Fair play to them!

(But all AAC pilots I have met wear CS95... discuss!)

[ZH875]

But all AAC pilots I have met wear CS95... discuss!
It takes such a long time to train the Army to dress in CS95, just think how long it will take to train them to dress in something different.

Second class dress for second class Aircrew, seems ok to me!.

[Climebear]

EESDL

The problem is that some hig ranking aviators think they understand what is put in front of them. Which is understandable because they were selected for their superb hand-eye cordination and other aviator attributes which automatically means they have a great insight into the domain of the other (non-flying) professional branches. Therefore, they try to alter some of it thereby ignoring stacks of work by their staff officers who do know what they are talking about.

Remember, these people came from the same crewrooms you now inhabit. Look around you, will the next generation be any better? And, do you think their airships said the same when they resided in sqn crewrooms of (not so) old.

[YoungAlbert]

This is soooo f'ing boring!
No aircrew in ground posts. Problem solved, next issue......I should be CAS!

[Bunker Mentality]

Young Albert,

Check the 'Fighter Controllers - Know Your Place' thread.

You're playing right into our hands, mate. Go on, bog off down route, have your stopovers in the sun, squander your rates on wine, women and skank, then come home and find the mess overflowing with FCs.

If you're too important to work on the ground, I know people who aren't!

Regards

BM

[Climebear]

Bunker Mentality

If the FC's are making a bid to take over the world they have missed the boat. The RAF Regt are streaks ahead of you guys. The formation of the OSB was just part of their cunning masterplan. Far more RAF Regt on ACSC than FC types.

First they take over Air Officer Administration, it will be supply next, then engineering, then.... (ah FOAS could be unmanned, therefore it's like a rapier, therefore the RAF Regt can fly it). The (RAF Regt) Empire strikes back!

(And no, I am not one of them)

[JessTheDog]

One reason not to wear growbags on the ground:

At a top-secret bunker located under a prime slice of National Trust land, there resided certain officers of other nations who had the unsurpassed honour of working in the UK amongst the finest equipped air force in the world!

One of these fellows had flown aircraft at some point and, being Teutonic, clearly had a taste for the bacon and sausages that was the staple mid-morning output of the feeder. In fact he enjoyed his food so much that the belly went outwards, straining against the fabric of the flying suit. Worst of all, the gut-induced strain caused the bottom of his trousers to rise above his boot-tops.

The combination of wedgewood blue shirt, trousers No 2 and stable belt is far more flattering to the fuller figure.

I agree that brevets and other significant badges should be worn in shirt-sleeves, perhaps as enamel badges. It would save sweating in a breveted wooly pully at the height of summer on a ground tour!

[Pontius Navigator]

I wear blues. I have always worn blues on ground tours and even at Nav School when not rescheduled to fly. To resolve the going home issue to get my kit, I kept a spare set at work!

Now, to my chagrin I am told I may have to wear CS95. Do I wear a brevet?

I still have a metal Nav brevet I acquired in NZ. They, and the OZ both wear natty metal badges with their shirts.

[huge forkbender]

Jeeze! Doesn't EESDL realise that without a 'Royal GROUND Force', as he put it, he wouldn't have got in the air.

Us 'groundies' fully appreciate our role is to support the delivery of Air power. It may not be as 'sexy' as you guys doing the flying but can be every bit as important.

EESDL. your arrogance, demeans those have spent their whole career enabling you and your flying colleages to do your job.

Fortunately, there are enough aircrew who do appreciate the value of what we do. Whether we are providing you with a recogised air picture, talkdown, a travel claim or a flying suit, you'd be lost without us.

As for when you should be allowed to wear your flying suit, I don't care. I'm glad you feel you've earned that right, good luck to you. We on the ground have also earned rights; the right to be valued for the work we do; the training we've had to go through (I can name a number of grounded aircrew who have struggled to qualify as a Weapons Controller!) and the right to be regarded as an integral part of the RAF.

[Pierre Argh]

i am proud to be a pilot in the RAF

"... but you hate blues! So not proud enough of the RAF to wear the uniform. Says a lot about aircrew I think?

I once sat in on a committee meeting and the subject of flying clothing came up... in particular the introduction of a set of tailored flying overalls... without too many pockets, unslightly attachements, knives etc... for every day wear around the station when NOT flying, because the standard issues ovvies were too scruffy. I am pelased to say the Chair... a flier... shot that one down without further debate.

Second dit. OC OPs arrives in Control Tower to meet some visitors, dressed in flying overalls... and remarks "I didn't want our visitors to think I was some sort of numpty" A quick witted SNCO nearby replied "Good god sir no... you wouldn't want them to think you're an Trafficker would you?"

Oh how ironic... I couldn't have picked a better word than "numpty"... proud or otherwise!

[EESDL]

Huge Forkbender

Didn't mean to offend - have re-read my posts and cannot see any signs of arrogance seeping in - but always glad to be put right......

It appears you may have a slight chip there old boy! Guess you should have tried harder at school and then, you too, could be revered and admired by all that gaze upon your form as you slide through the bar, with a trail of (female) weak-knee'd air traffickers following at a polite distance behind your slightly 'humming' flying suit.

'Blunty' is a proud, traditional term, dating back to the days of Trenchard. It fully acknowledges that 'Blunties' don't just lose your 1771.

Have done a wide variety of jobs, working with many different branches at many different levels in many different theatres under many different conditions and am well aware of the essential importance of the input of each and everybody, you sanctimonious fool. Don't even feel the need to mention what weapons my nose has been pointing down the other end of (climebear) - just assumed every single member of the Armed Forces would do what they signed on the dotted line for - otherwise I was told that you'd be called a deserter and that is really bad for a pudding lover.

Wouldn't have bothered responding on such a lovely day but killing time inbetween eng runs.

OK, you've got me, insisted on wearing flying suit because I couldn't have the daily help ironing my 'blues' and putting tramlines down the sleeves!

[huge forkbender]

EESDL,

OK, I've re-read my notice and yep, in hindsight, sounds pretty sanctimonious to me aswell.

Been having a bad day. Thanks for the reality check.

Fully accept you not finding your comment arrogant.

Wouldn't have expected anything different!

[tonkatechie]

What a great thread...but don't we hear this sort of stuff everyday at work? Needless to say, I can't help but bite at a good bit of banter, so here goes....
Vim_Fuego if I was to rock up on a day I was'nt down on the program to fly, wearing my freshly laundered and pressed no.2's, 80% of the time I would be driving back home within the hour to get into flying kit to fill in for the short fall of people at this cold, well to the North airbase. Good God, I know you guys love flying (and yes I admit I am sometimes jealous of your job) but I had no idea that you do it for free! Send me your address and I'll order a locker and coat stand to hang your alternative clothing on.

Climebear To be pedantic there is a difference, coveralls are not a order of uniform - flying suits are - no14 dress if my very trivial memory serves me correctly. Excellent observation, no doubt it should also include some form of headdress, unlike the pilot I spotted in Dundee the other day. I might decide to wear my No1 uniform next week - I'm on leave, but my mum's so proud of my medal...:p

EESDLyou should have tried harder at school Hooray! you win first prize for the best RAFism on the thread. A brilliant retort that can be used for any arguement. If anything, it demonstrates your unquestionable bravery - you tried hard at school, it all paid off and you get to fly around in a machine maintained by those who you deem academically inferior to you! My hero;) Don't worry, I won't come out with the old cliche that you can put a monkey into space, but he can't fix the rocket when it comes back! (:mad: I just did, I should have paid more attention again.....)

Banter's great.

[Itsrainingagain]

<If an aircrew guys simply takes his 'coverall' off he will be walking around in long-johns and green roll-neck!>

Take 'em off boys, that's what I say!!


:O :ok: :O :ok:

Well, apart from the rather larger than life truckie boys who have made a bit too much use of the on-board catering facilities!!!

:yuk: :\ :yuk: :\

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Forkbender

You were right the first time.

I've known EESDL for years and he is the textbook example of an arrogant hooray henry.

James Hewitt with wings. If there had been an RAF base near Kensington Palace, Harry would be at Cranwell.

He treated the RAF as a flying club, and his aircraft as a hire car.

and now he's a civvy

Bloody Good Bloke though! :ok:

[EESDL]

Tonkatechie
The great thing with 'Banter' is when people BITE!
The other good thing is that it transgresses all social divides and is a great leveller - an invaluable management/crm tool in the cockpit.

For example, yesterday, I trashed one of my Boss' cars (Evo 8 MR FQ300), told him I f'd up - a tad different from my normal road transport. Do you think in the 5 hrs we spent in each other's company flying around England and Wales he mentioned it? Or, indeed, to the numerous employees of his Race Team, including the 'techies' (or Mechanics as they're called when an 'ology' isn't being awarded) whom, may I add have had the pleasure/honour to witness my flying first hand. I reckon over 140 employees/associates, from all walks of life, are now aware that I can't drive!

One of the texts received was from one of the pro drivers - simple banter - "Leave the driving to the experts, know your limits!!"

I now know the limits of my driving skills and my visa card but, honestly, have no regrets - as my family motto states:
"Live by the Pork Sword, Die by the Pork Sword".

I am just grateful he didn't give me the keys to some of the fast stuff!!

Tonkatechie - do you have a family motto?

Atleast, with this monkey, when you put him into space, he has the commonsense to try and stay there for as long as possible!!

Ok, I've been patient enough, why the effing 'ell do Stackers wear flying suits whilst sleeping down the back of the aircraft???

This results in a shortage of said article, to such an extent that the 'Daily' (good for dusting) has to use some of my old ones rather than buy them off some 'techie' at a carboot sale.

[Maple 01]

Think the UAS get all the good stuff - last week they sat in on the brief - never seen so much new flying kit in one place!

[Grum Peace Odd]

To answer the initial question: simple, don't be so blunt as to get a ground tour, then it's not an issue. I've flown on every tour for the past 14 years - I'm not so brain dead or work-shy as to sit behind a desk for a couple of years twiddling my thumbs along with those too thick to fly.

[maxburner]

To state my credentials up front, I spent 19 years flying Her Majesty's finest and fastest before I did my first ground tour. That was in the Main Building, so suits were the required dress. No room on my best pin-stripe for wings, but hey, I didn't feel insecure enough to need that overt display.

I also have a degree in psychology. There's enough material on this thread to keep a conference of psychologists going for a month.

Grow up guys.

The RAF was, and I'm certain still is, a team. No one part functions without all the others. And if you feel the need for a brevet or a pair of wings on your body at all times to let everyone know how good you are, then frankly, you are an underconfident, insecure geek.

But that's just my opinion. I'm sure someone will have present a cogent argument to counter my point of view.

Regards to all.

[Maple 01]

I resent maxburner's comment as I'm an underconfident, insecure geek who never learned to fly - pilots, find your own personalities - I was here with that one first!;)

[Flobadob]

Flying suit is for flying in, it's not a difficult concept.

Desk flyers know your place when working in Bluntyland/Handbrake House, it's not a difficult concept either.

You are also smelly after you have been flying, so please don't wear them unless you are doing/about to do that flying thing or can manage an 'aircrew shower' before venturing out into Bluntyland.

It put us off our donuts and coffee over in the Tower! :}

[maxburner]

Sorry Maple 01, didn't mean to push in on your territory.

[EESDL]

Maxburner
I do believe you have taken this thread seriously!!!
Or have I been double-bluffed and you actually understand that we all have seen the importance of teamwork in the RAF and know that we are all one big happy family, with each member contributing their own essential skill.................but have decided to call our bluff and imagine that a person not agreeing with such logic would have been taken behind the nearest bike shed a long time ago.
As far as your mind degree goes - shove it up your ar.............."coming dear"!

[Twonston Pickle]

Why not have a trade/branch badge for all - winged pen here I come!

[maxburner]

EESDL,

Interesting that you say that. Do you feel anger? Telll me what it is you are feeling now.

[Echo 5]

maxburner

............................................................ .........................................
EESDL,

Interesting that you say that. Do you feel anger? Telll me what it is you are feeling now.
............................................................ ...........................................

As a new civvy he is probably feeling quite lonely at the moment and a bit unsure of himself. He will get used to it though.

Wonder why he's still posting on the Military Forum after some of his previous ?

[maxburner]

Echo,

Perhaps we shouldn't talk about him as if he isn't here, it could give him a complex.

Must go and wash my growbag.

Regards,

[LuckyBreak]

I don't usually post many replies, but having worked hard to get my wings, I'm in favour of putting them on blues, DPMs, Shoes, trousers, boots, socks, watches, cars, bikes etc etc etc

Don't worry, I only being serious.

H

[Blakey875]

EESDL

Do you mean those stackers down the back wearing Nomex Loading Suits?

Obviously not the Movers who rarely get to wear a loading suit as they now dress like Pongos on hercs whilst the Pongos wear the Flying Suits!?

Personally I flinched at the decision years ago when Aircrew were allowed to wear Flying Suits in the Messes. To sit next to a Growbag on a Herc base knowing the guy has spilt everything from his breakfast to bloody racasan down his overalls is not very endearing.

Now you are a civvy I presume you go to work in a black flying suit with large yellow bars and a leather jacket viz a viz like Kenny Everett??

Get a life - get over it...

[Widger]

I have got over 20'000 hours on fixed and rotary chairs and I demand some respect!:*

[Pontius Navigator]

Widger,
Did you prefer the fixed control surfaces on the non-Rotating chairs?

At least the old fashioned non-Rotating ones were over engineered unlike the new all purpose swing-rock version where you need to weigh in first.

I believe there is a minimum weight limit in case of inadvertent extension and also a maximum in case of unexpected ejection.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Having endured blues for 14 years as a techie I love the fact that for the past 17 years I have been able to enjoy the comfort of my bag on a daily basis:ok:

The other most pleasing fact is that the neolithic attitiude displayed by the likes of Blakey is a thing of the past and that aircrew are treated as equals, despite our obvious superiority:E, in the Baldrick mess......from my memeory the churlish behaviour of his ilk would not have allowed the situation he alludes to to have occured as the small minority "chimps" always chose to sit else where:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Blakey875]

ABIW

Still can't get my head around why you guys want to wear greasy overalls all the time rather than smarten up for meal times - Is it a substitute for a comfort blanket??

Knowing you I believe the reason you wear yours constantly is because you don't have an iron?

As for chimps - if you continue in that vein I will tell the world the story of the chimp and the Loadie going on a space shot...

[Mobile Muppet]

Blakey,

Where would ABIW get grease on his flying suit from.. Maybe of f the doughnuts he was munching on..I reckon the real reason ABIW wears his flying suit is due to the fact he can't fit into blues...

MM

[Lara crofts pants]

You lot need to get out more. You really do

[BEagle]

Is this thread going anywhere? Or is it ripe for closure?

[Pontius Navigator]

No one answered the question earlier. Brevets on CS95?

I believe the official answer in no but what actually happens?

[JessTheDog]

I once had the pleasure of working with a largely-RAF unit composed mainly of flyers that wore CS95 as their daily uniform...even though they lived within an air-conditioned bunker.:D

They proudly wore their brevets unashamedly in breach of whatever the rulebook said. I was determined to go and see the CO and say "look, Sir, you do know that brevets are not to be worn on CS95" but I never got round to it...;)

[sittingstress]

Brevets and badges are earned and people are rightly proud of them. There is a time and a place for them to be on display.

My opinion;

CS 95 (normal daily work) - brevets, get 'em on. Obviously only applies to badges with credence hence I include my Mudguards!

CS 95 on ops - nothing, especially that stupid Royal Air Force thing.

Blues - currently no official badges provided. This is wrong. Brevets and old style Regt flashes get 'em supplied and on. I include shirts/blouses and jumpers in the term blues.

Try and take a Bootnecks dagger/flashes from him and there would be mayhem. We have worked hard to get our badges. I was AWARDED mine as no doubt aircrew are AWARDED theirs. I am proud and definately not scared to admit it.

So to answer the original question; allow us to be proud Sirs, that means get brevets on everything and ditch grobags for non-flying tours.

I eagerly await incoming pebble-monkey, empire-building, gate-guarding banter!!

Regards

ss

[Episkopiana]

Guys just to let you know the RAAF wear blues on a ground tour but they get to wear their medals, wings and readiness badges as well. They are happy to wear their blues as everybody still knows they are aircrew and proud of it. True, they hardly ever wear ties, because it is always warm, but they still complain less. Oh, and the Flying suits are also a lot better, they actually fit. Finally, they are alowed to wear Sqn Baseball caps, a hell of a lot better looking than a 'Chipbag'........:cool:

[airborne_artist]

Does anyone remember the albeit brief period in about 1984-ish when styled "overalls" were quite the fashion amongst young ladies?

A lass I knew of - work-colleague of a mate, had a white one. It was quite close-fitting, and she was slim in all departments. After a few sherbets on a Fri pm an Alpha male came up and said "What happens if I undo this (pointing at the zip)", as he then took hold of the zip-pull and lowered it swiftly and fully.

One almighty slap followed a spilt second after all the goods had been displayed.

[teeteringhead]

when styled "overalls" were quite the fashion amongst young ladies? ... remember one occasion when Lady Teeters and another YL both appeared at the same function in such "overalls" - in bright red....

.... were known for some time subsequently as the "Synchro Pair"

[ProfessionalStudent]

The Ham Shanks wear their medals and every badge they own on their blues and I think it looks a bit silly (though one can apparently tell a guy's service history from them - perhaps quite useful to shut gobby ex-UAS peeps up).

I do, however, sign up to the metal badges on blues idea, for aircrew (not FCs though, I said AIRCREW:E ), and those blunt (with respect) trades and branches that already have a badge or flash issued. Also agree with sittingstress (please don't tell my friends I agreed woth a Rockape).

[PerArdua]

As a non aircrew, bluntie, etc why do you aircrew types get paid flying pay when you chose to continue non-flying duties!!! I can understand getting paid it when you are joed for the job but when you chose to stay there why should you get the additional money for essentially doing a 'blunties' job!!!!

Hopefully that should stir this debate up a bit

Battoning Down Hatches

PA

[Matrix Marauder]

Not that one again!!!!!!

[claude liardet]

I've always been surprised that aircrew can't wear their brevets on their blues or CS95 (and felt sorry for all those sweating away in their woolly pullys just to get the chance). If you ask me, why shouldn't they - they earned 'em after all. But since the RAF is run by aircrew, for aircrew, surely it's their own fault?

[Echo 5]

Beags is right..............time to put this to bed. Gone from growbags on ground tours to badges and accoutrements. Not even decent banter and a total waste of bandwidth.
Bin it !!