Will BAA ever open Spectator areas again

[Desk Driver]

Will BAA ever open Spectator areas again?
Especially Gatwick? I know they claimed a saftey reason to close them but please is'nt that overkill?

[Avman]

SAFETY / SECURITY is the weakest of all excuses and absolute tosh. A good spectators area, which can be made secure at night, at both LHR and LGW would pay for itself in terms of staff required for the provision of security checks upon entry. (Frankfurt, Zurich, etc). The truth is that, just as in ATC and the airline world, airports are now managed by beancounters who don't have an iota of interest in aviation! Of course there are SOME exceptions, but they are too few - especially in the UK, home of the aircraft enthusiasts.

To all airport managers let me repeat what I mentioned sometime ago, aircraft enthusiasts and the general public are one of the very best ways of protecting your airport.

[foxile]

Couldn't agree with you more. Interesting to note that the viewing area at FRA is often quoted as being in the top three 'tourist' attractions in Germany. All for the cost of a couple of security personnel, security equipment and a some cleaners... Would guess that makes a nice profit. Accountants at BAA take note...

It's sad but gone are the days of the Queens building viewing area, where so many youngsters got the bug of aviation that probably led them to pursue a career in the industry.... :(

[ALLDAYDELI]

Manchester is also an EXCELLENT example of making things work and great uninterrupted aircraft views & photography opportunities.

[The African Dude]

Got to be honest here too, although it's easy to jump on the same P.O.V. wagon as everyone who has commented so far, I really couldn't agree more with them.

The saddest thing is I think that those with the power to re-open the spectator areas at LHR (for example) forgot about them the day they were closed.. as if they just dropped off the bottom of the priority list like an action completed, never to be thought of again - like a disused railway station.

We always talk about how the 'golden' days of aviation are gone: I say that imagination is all that will be left, without a viewing terrace and cockpit visits!

[Nopax,thanx]

Stansted's even worse......never had an official viewing area, and the BAA are now actively closing off and blocking all points from where a view may be had. Their latest stunt was to place a redundant airbridge on the ground in front of a gate to deliberately obstruct the view.

One really would think they had better ways to spend their money, particularly as they are not flavour of the month with the local residents. A bit of positive PR would do them some good.

Amsterdam-Schiphol has to be one of the best places for viewing. Last time I was there they had built a socking great car park alongside one of the runways, with no fence (but a large and deep water filled ditch for security) and a MacDonalds. Free parking and full of the public just having a nice afternoon out. Sadly until the BAA get their collective heads out of their backsides it ain't gonna happen at any of their airports.

[skiddyiom]

The only time the BAA will ever re-introduce spectators viewing areas if they can stick an expensive shopping mall in it!!

They are the worse people in the world for anti-spotting. Even the Americans don't get that paranoid. Still, what can you expect from a company whose sole aim is to make money, never mind travellers or enthusiasts.

skiddy

[dontdoit]

Slightly off-topic, but does anyone know what became of the aircraft/bits of aircraft (Herald, Comet nose, etc etc) which used to be displayed on the now-closed roof-terrace at Gatwick? Just curious!

[Evening Star]

Contrast this with the recently published guidelines (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/guidelines_for_rail_enthusiasts.htm) from National Rail. In particular:

Your presence at the station can be very helpful to us as extra "eyes and ears" and can be a positive security benefit.

Funny Gatwick gets a mention here, as this was a popular destination, when staying with the relatives in Sussex, for my brother and I in our trainspotting days. When we got bored with the trains (and this is the Southern Region we are taling about!), we would go up to the observation deck to watch some beautifully noisy 1970's aircraft taking off.:D

The beancounters are very short sighted. Allow viewing access to capture the child's imagination today and you will have positive staff and passengers tomorrow. But of course, that does not pay the bonus this year. The problem is, like it seems every industry these days, managers with no background in the industry. To go back to the railway example, there was a time in the pre-privatisation era when it was held in bad taste for a railway manager to be enthusiastic about railways. Call me naive, but somebody enthusiastic is going to go the extra mile in their job. No wonder the railways are in such a mess today. Beware the aviation industry going the same way. Things such as closed viewing areas suggest the thin edge of a very divisive wedge.

[skiddyiom]

The Herald is down the other side of the control tower, along with the old Comet fuselage. You can see it when you taxy in or out. And just about from the North Terminal in Departures.

skiddy

[Deano777]

Baffling isn't it, what damage could a terrorist possibly do on the Queens Building anyway? if you were a terrorist your aim would be "maximum destruction" "maximum effect" "maximum publicity" and they couldn't acheive that from up on the tower, they could however acheive those 3 from around the perimeter of the airfield, so the authorities are barking up the wrong tree imho.

Dean

[paulc]

having been in FRA for 3 days recently it is still one of the best facilites from which aircraft can be watched and photographed from. The security check is no different than if you were a passenger and is very good value at 3 euro. If you are lucky the cashier may be late and you will get in for free as I did 2 days of the 3.

[eal401]

Will BAA ever open Spectator areas again?
NEVER!!!11!!!!1!!!

Because you could take bit of Missile up there disguised as Camera Lens and stuff, and put it together and shoot a plane down and be really nasty!!!!1!!!

The above may have included an element of sarcasm.

:p

[brookbj]

In a similar vein, anyone here the proud owner of a "stop and search" form from the local constabulary yet? I've managed to avoid them so far, but I don't get out to the "big" airports much (no-one seems bothered at East Mids!). I gather they are quite the thing to be seen with these days.....

[WHBM]

Because you could take bit of Missile up there disguised as Camera Lens and stuff, and put it together and shoot a plane down and be really nasty!!!!1!!!
Cunning plan.

Tell BAA we will all buy these camera lenses at the Heathrow Dixons. Then things will be approved in a moment.

[Jordan D]

BAA will re-open it ..... to let us see pigs fly by.

Jordan

[TheOddOne]

Well..

There are plenty of BAA employees who are enthusiastic about aviation and aircraft, who wish we still had the facilities of yore. We're proud of our airports and what we achieve and we genuinely want to share this with enthusiasts from around the country and around the world.

Mind you, personally I think someone who spends a couple of week's salary on a ticket to Japan just to get a few L1011 frames is suffering from an illness, not just an enthusiasm, but each to their own.

The faithful who gather at our various crash gates and undershoots have actually been recognised by Sussex Police as a resource and there are signs up asking the regulars to report anyone they don't recognise or who is acting suspiciuosly.

Finally, the LGW viewing area was shut to make way for the South Terminal Arrivals eXtension (STAX). It actually made money and like the FRA area, was a very popular leisure attraction. We've looked hard for another suitable replacement area, but so far, without luck.


Cheers,
TheOddOne

[Avman]

Finally, the LGW viewing area was shut to make way for the South Terminal Arrivals eXtension (STAX). It actually made money and like the FRA area, was a very popular leisure attraction. We've looked hard for another suitable replacement area, but so far, without luck.

If the BAA was seriously looking at this, I suggest that with a little inventiveness and a little money there are potential locations around LGW.

[perky35]

Not so long ago, a bloke went round with a patition to get the deck at Heathrow open again. i heard he got over 10 thousand signitures.

This obviously wasnt enough (no offense to the guy who did it) because it is still closed.


What i am proposing, if possible, Could we all start a similar project, we all want the same objective and that is millions around the world, not just a few plane spotters dangling round an airport!

If we were to get these mass patitions signed and sent to BAA, and again and again and again, maybe they would do something about it????

then again, they may just close off every single viewing point possible as they are doing anyway.


This prats are going to drive us to launching missiles, preferably at the BAA offices where these stupid decisions are made.

Before i finish, i would just like to thank the guy, if he looks on this website i dont know, who started the patition, was a great idea, i just think if we did it on a much larger scale maybe it could make some sort of difference?

[IanH]

BAA = Ban All Aircraftspotters !

Its a shame that they cannot learn from Manchester or Birmingham who have two excellent viewing areas ...........

[akerosid]

I hope they do something soon, because the Renaissance is bloody expensive - and especially frustrating when the 09s are in use (like last weekend. Grr ...)

However, I think it's unlikely that the BAA will do anything of their own volition (indeed, I had understood that they had been told by the DfTR's security people to close the observation decks - is this true?)

Personally, I think the only thing that would result in a move is if the BAA's London Airports were split. That obviously won't happen just to please enthusiasts, but there may well be good commercial reasons for doing so, particularly with BAA wanting to cross-subsidise the new STN runway from LHR charges.

LGW has gone down significantly in recent years as a hub airport and it's probably going to need a good, independent operator (I pick Zurich!) to make it an effective competitor to LHR.

So, there's your answer: split the three - put Zurich's Unique in charge of LGW, Fraport in charge of LHR, Singapore's SATS in charge of STN ... and leave BAA with Southampton. (We wouldn't want to leave them with nothing, would we?) :p ;)

[skiddyiom]

Whaddya mean we wouldnt want to leave them with nothing? They couldnt run a piss up in a brewery.

With their penchant for shopping malls perhaps they could take over running Marks & Spencer and leave the airports to be run properly by people who understand aeroplanes and the people who use them and are interested in them.

Mind you, I wouldn't want to use M&S if they were running it :D

skiddy

[TCAS FAN]

Akerosid

Please don't leave SOU to BAA, they've recently removed the public viewing gallery from there too! Adoption of the BAA mentality has all but stuffed up SOU. The "if it works at other BAA airports, it must be right for Southampton" hasn't really worked. Fortunately for BAA Flybe came along, if Flybe go down the tubes its SOU up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

Flybe have bought Embraer 195s which Embraer say are a 146 replacement, but as yet unproven. If they don't get it right and improve the take-off performance, which at the moment will get a 195 from SOU to GLA or EDI, but not much farther with a full load, maybe its off to Bournemouth for Flybe.

Unless BAA get hold of the land to the north of the airport, which is currently a railway marshalling yard and redundant railway maintenance depot, remove two enormous redundant railway sheds and displace the runway northwards, to enable them to conform to current CAA safety standards (which they have a waiver from), if another runway overrun on 20 occurs (ie following the Citation on the M27 and Jetstar before it) the CAA will put SOU out of business by imposing the new standards on them, which should leave SOU with the summertime Scillies Skybus Twin Otter!

Is this the BAA strategy for SOU, "force us to close so that we can sell off the land for loadsa money for building development"? That should keep the shareholders happy!

[ForestFlyer]

TCAS FAN,

We're all entitled to our opinions, but as a regular traveller through SOU I personally think it is generally a very good airport. It has it's faults, BAA have made mistakes, but things are moving in the right direction IMO.

If I may address your points individually:

1 - The viewing gallery has been removed from landside usage to enable extension of the departure lounge which is much needed. It's not just been taken out of use for the hell of it or on a whim, but as a business decision to enable the continuing growth of the airport, which i would hope everyone, passengers and enthusiasts alike, would welcome. I look forward to having more space to relax in prior to my flight.

2 - SOU is now flyBE's biggest base. Do you honestly think flyBE would re-equip with aircraft that meant the mass withdrawel from their most successful hub? The facts of the matter are the 195 can operate from SOU's existing runway to a range of something like 2300 miles... more than the 146 and that's with a capacity load of 118. One of it's engines is more powerful than all four on a 146, and more efficient. I have no doubt there will be teething problems, but it seems to be an excellent choice of equipment to me.

3 - The CAA RESA standards are mandatory for new runways and 'recommended' for existing runways. SOU does not have a 'waiver'... it is not a special case. The CAA are well aware that existing runways and airports may struggle to fit the new RESA's into existing airfield boundaries and knowing how they've implemented things in the past, will work with individual airports to make things work. They don't just impose things and end up closing an airport as a result... infact I believe they've already done so at Farnborough where they have a starter strip and other small improvements. So, I'm certain the airport and the CAA will probably be discussing how to implement things as best as possible.

As I said at the top, BAA aren't perfect, and SOU is far from it, but the negativity in your post is unwarrented IMO. I enjoy travelleing through and am grateful for the investment that BAA has made in SOU... had they NOT taken over, would it be anywhere near as successful as it is now? I doubt it.

[ForestFlyer]

If anyone is still interested, and if I haven't killed the thread with my facts(or maybe it was my lack of slagging off BAA that did it! ;) ), Southampton's new departure lounge opens next Monday, I was told as I travelled through today.

Looks like they'll be working all weekend to make that, with all the scaffolding still up etc. But I look forward to seeing it.