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hotnhigh
20th Jun 2005, 01:21
If you sign the eba we will sign.............

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Boeing Co. has lost a $6 billion Air Canada order for 777 and 787 jets after the members of the carrier's pilots union rejected a cost-cutting deal that would have cleared the way for the purchase.
The Air Canada order, announced April 25, included firm orders for 18 Boeing 777s and firm orders for 14 of the aircraft manufacturer's next new jet, the 787 Dreamliner. The firm orders were worth about $6 billion at list prices. The price on a 777 can run from $165 million to almost $246 million, depending on the version. A 787 has a list price of about $120 million.
"To cancel 18 777s is almost unheard of, especially when it was not a question of management's change of mind," said Doug McVitie of the consulting firm Arran Aerospace. "Their mind was changed for them by the pilots."
All told, the deal could have included another 18 Boeing 777s and as many as 46 more 787s.
The first 777s were to be delivered in the early part of next year. The 787s would've begun to arrive in 2010 to replace Air Canada's 767s.


"We cannot lose sight of the effort it took to get to where the airline is today, and while the cancellation of this aircraft order will be disappointing to our employee group at large, including many of our pilots, it is the right decision given the circumstances," said Air Canada Chief Executive Officer Montie Brewer in a statement. The Montreal-based company would not comment further. There is no penalty associated with the cancellation, the company said.
At the time of the order's announcement, analysts noted Air Canada's decision to eschew Airbus planes for those of Chicago-headquartered Boeing. Air Canada, which has a fleet of 293 aircraft including its Jazz line, emerged from bankruptcy protection last fall.
On June 9, the leadership of the Air Canada Pilots Association had endorsed an agreement for the new planes.
Boeing said it was disappointed by the cancellation but emphasized that interest in the two wide-body aircraft models is strong.
"We are seeing very strong demand for the 777 and the 787. Therefore, we believe we will have numerous opportunities to place these aircraft elsewhere," said a Boeing spokesman Boeing announced new 777 orders last week at the Paris Air Show. No new deals for 787s emerged, but executives have said demand for the model has been very high, leaving its production effectively sold out through 2010.
The loss of the Air Canada deal, though, is significant. "This is really Boeing's first reverse on the 787," said Arran Aerospace's McVitie.

longreach
20th Jun 2005, 04:53
I doubt whether QF will source these aircraft for several reasons:

they haven't made up their minds what they will buy, how many they will buy and when they will be delivered.
The 1st AC 773ER was due in May 2006. That's way too soon for QF. They were looking at receiving 773ER/346 in 2007 at some stage, but A380 EIS delays may push this out until 2008.
Boeing look likely to increase 777 production rates, so if/when QF decides to order 777s, they will still be able to get slots that suit their delivery schedule.

Scooter
20th Jun 2005, 09:47
Longreach - agree with you about the increase in production schedule,but dont forget that Geoff Dixon really made the deal of the century ordering the 737-800 and 747-400ER just after 9/11 when all other airlines were cancelling their orders.

The board is under pressure to get more cost/fuel efficient aircraft and I would say that if GD can get these orders at a discount with replacement options for the future,he will be in like a rat up a drainpipe.
Hence the expression cunning as a $hithouse rat !

Its also being speculated in the media that the government of the day will relax the foreign ownership rules of Qantas allowing someone such as Singapore airlines to buy in.
Only problem then is that QF will get all of their clapped out old B777's.
Watch this space.............

Habster
20th Jun 2005, 11:40
Boeing could always get other orders out earlier and fit in Qantas to a more suitable timetable....

Meatro227
20th Jun 2005, 22:23
Questions asked around Mascot if the rat would be ready if a deal could be done. Why not? Classic crews , currently under utilised would be first cabs off the rank. Interesting times indeed.

DJ747
21st Jun 2005, 04:55
DJ's EBA is in the pot simmering at the moment as well.

Lets see if they try that line on us too...sign here boys or give up the birthright to the 777/340's that will run accross the Pacific.

Interesting times indeed.

coaldemon
21st Jun 2005, 09:42
Since Virgin always set up seperate entities I don't see how they could offer it even in passing. After the last debacle that was the EBA where definitions were wider than the Minister for immigrations rear would tell the negotiator that if it ain't in writing it is not worth pis$%^g on. So I wouldn't get your interest up too much..

DJ747
21st Jun 2005, 22:59
Coaldemon I hear you, and don't necessarily disagree.

As mentioned the VB EBA is simmering in the pot and there has been an attempt to address International operations - type ratings etc. Lets see what happens hey.

Cup half full or cup half empty ?

qfpaypacket
22nd Jun 2005, 10:50
DJ747,

It is definitely half empty if you are working for Virgin Blue. And your choice of "half" is both apt and amusing.