Definition of a first time pass ?

[Northern Highflyer]

Might seem like a no brainer but what is it ?

We have series and attempts on the tests so what do you say on your application ?

Some airline application forms ask "At what ATTEMPT did you pass your IR ?" so what do you put depending on when you passed.


Series one attempt one is obviously a first time pass. So attempt one/first time pass is the answer.

Series one attempt two. This is the second attempt so two would be the logical answer to the above question, yet it is still a series one pass. Is it a first time pass / second attempt pass ?

Series two attempt one. Can this be answered as an attempt one pass, (which is what it says on the test certificate), or is it really attempt three ?

I seem to recall reading on here some time ago of people who didn't get the series one attempt one pass opting to go straight to series two so they could claim a "first attempt" pass.

I got a series one attempt two pass and want to be honest on my applications. So it was attempt two but still series one. I was told that a "series one pass" is a first time pass.

How do the Airlines look at it ? :confused: :confused: :confused:

NH

[stellair]

Simple mate.......They don't!:ok:

[Northern Highflyer]

That figures. :hmm:

Just seems a bit vague on how to put it on the form. Don't want to claim first time if what I have isn't. Like I said, I was told I can call it a "first time/attempt pass" as I did it in the first series, but I am not convinced.

If I have to provide proof at interview it states quite clearly on the top on the pass certificate, series one attempt two. Don't want to misrepresent myself and fall at the first hurdle as I assume they will require proof that what you claim is true. :ok:

[willby]

Hi NF,
Very interesting question. Would like to know the definitive answer myself. So can any one from an FTO help with an answer?
Regards
Willby

[Genghis the Engineer]

"The attempt on 23 November 2003"

G

[Hufty]

I don't think you should claim a first time pass. If you took two attemps to get it then it isn't a first time pass. I suppose an FTO will classify a series one pass as a first time pass in order to make their "first time" pass rates look better!

Most airline won't be that bothered I'm sure and it is better to be honest as they won't appreciate it if they think you're telling them porky pies even if it is in good faith!

Hufty.

[Maude Charlee]

I partialled the initial IR and subsequently passed the re-test, but as my paperwork from the CAA says "Attempt One", that is what went on my applications. If it's good enough for the regulator.............:D Bear in mind, you only had ONE attempt at the whole test, it just required 2 attempts at one section of that test, so when they ask how many attempts it took to pass the IRT the logical answer is one.

[BillieBob]

Hufty is correct in saying that most airlines won't be that bothered if you didn't achieve a first time pass in the IR. However, there are those that do and in those cases a first time pass means just that - A full pass at the first attempt in the first series.

You may, like Maude Charlee, choose to lie about it and you may well get away with it - that is entirely up to your own conscience.

[Northern Highflyer]

Seems like it is down to individual interpretation as I can't find any definitive answer to this so far.

[stratotanker135]

Its a Fail fail fail, no escaping it.

[FougaMagister]

Maude Charlee doesn't lie about it. As he says, if the CAA sees it as ONE attempt, then one attempt it is. Full stop. I also had to do one section again (it took all of 10 minutes), and I also call it a first time pass. That's what the partial pass was designed for: to allow a student to re-do one (but only one) section of the INITIAL IR skill test and still pass at the first attempt.

All the rest is b:mad: s

Cheers :cool:

[FlyingForFun]

Hmm, my CV says that I've passed all tests and exams first time. I assumed that potential employers would read this as meaning passing at the first attempt of the first series.

After reading this thread, it seems that lots of people who didn't pass at the first attempt of the first series are making the same claim as me. I shall have to update the wording on my CV to make it absolutely clear.

FFF
----------------

[silverknapper]

FFF makes a good point. If you didn't pass it all on the first test date then IT IS NOT a first time pass. Frankly it is poor form to claim you did. You didn't. Try and justify it as much as you like, but you are only kidding yourself.

[GuinnessQueen]

Yep, I agree with FFF,

What are you supposed to put if you GENUINELY got a first time pass?

Besides which, wouldn't it be obvious if the interviewer were to scrutinise your logbook (just this happened to me recently at a scholarship interview). I doubt they would believe that you just like to fly with IR examiners for the fun of it.....?

GQ

[GusHoneybun]

True,

On my interview, they went through my logbook with a fine tooth comb and askek why I failed my inital CPL (it was a partial pass initially). if i had put down on my CV that I had a first time pass then I the interview would have ended at that point. like said before, you can kid yourself, but at the end of the day, the Chief Pilot will see it as deception and won't do your chances any good.

[BillieBob]

OK, I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest about this but here's the definitive quote from Standards Document 1Each time an applicant undertakes an IR Skill Test it is known as an "Attempt". "Attempts" are grouped into "Series". There are up to two Attempts in each Series. There is no limit to the number of series that may be taken. If you pass at the first attempt in the first series, you have a 'First Time' pass. If, however, you pass at the second attempt in the first series, you have a 'First Series' pass. In 40 years in the aviation business, including time interviewing candidates for airline positions, I have never known any interpretation of a 'First Time' pass other than a full pass at the first attempt in the first series of attempts.

Maude Charlee, Fouga Magister, et al, may place any interpretation that they wish to improve the look of a First Series pass but, in the end, it is the interpretation placed by the interview panel that will count and, as the Manic Rabbit says, any attempt at deception will be quickly discovered.

[Northern Highflyer]

Some interesting comments here, thanks guys and gals.

At least I can now sleep easy knowing I have done it right. On the applications forms I have completed recently it asks "at what attempt...." and my answer was 2. CV says first series pass. My second attempt (like fougamagister) only lasted 10 minutes, but nevertheless a second attempt is what it was. :{

The 2 might mean a few more of my applications end up in the bin compared to others but hey that's life. Here's hoping my honesty and integrity shine through and get me that first job. :ok: