Twin star vs Seminole

[ricky-godf]

I will have soon to choose the aircraft to complete my ME IR training, between the Diamond DA42 Twin Star and the Piper Seminole.
Particularly those who flew with both of them, can you give some advises about:
-the handling caracteristic of the two, especially during one-engine out operations.
-how much does the EFIS cockpit helps during IMC flights (ie the situational awarness improvement compared with the conventional cockpit of the Seminole)
-having no previous experience on airplanes with control stick, how long does it take to get confident with this kind of control

Thank you guys

[LFS]

ricky,

I think you will find it difficult to get a response on this as no Twin Stars have yet been delivered to flying schools. Although I believe the first ones are imminent.

[3legs]

Ricky,

I know that Cabair are supposed to be getting the DA42 but they still havent taken delivery of them. From my understanding of it if you complete your training on the DA42 you get a "type rating" as opposed to a multi engine piston rating that you would get if you did your training on the PA44. It all depends on if you want to fly an MEP after your training. Not many of us do cos we all want to fly the big stuff but still handy to have!

The DA42 has a higher cruise speed which could open up quite a lot of routes for the IRT! not to mention trying to stay ahead of the aircraft when under the pressures of your test!! The examiners at Cranfield were getting excited about the arrival of the DA42 as they could go as far as Bournmouth or further still....

The DA42 like its little brother DA40 has a stick and only one lever for the engine control. No carb heat, ( well it is Diesel!!) no mixture and no pitch control. all done for you the DA42 just has another lever and a Glass cockpit! - Which looks nice...

The DA40 can be a bit sensitive in pitch but once you get it settled down its quite nice to fly. I have flown severel types with a stick and it doesnt take much getting used to.

If I had the choice I would go with the PA44. The DA42 has yet to prove itself and is a new aircraft.....There could be problems:* When Cabair took delivery of the DA40 there were a few problems as you would expect with a new fleet but it has taken the best part of two years to get the fleet to be reliable. Most of the 13 fleet have had at least one new engine and several engine and ECU modifications.

Hope this helps and best of luck with the ME/IR

3Legs:ok:

[BillieBob]

From my understanding of it if you complete your training on the DA42 you get a "type rating" as opposed to a multi engine piston rating that you would get if you did your training on the PA44. Unfortunately, that is not possible, much as the CAA might wish it. Because the JAA have buried their heads in the sand over the introduction of the DA42, it remains in the MEP Class and that is the rating that must be issued.

All the UK CAA can do is to introduce a temporary requirement, restricted to UK registered aeroplanes, for some kind of mandatory differences training from the DA42 to other MEP aeroplanes. This will have to be temporary as the UK CAA will lose control of licensing policy in a couple of years when EASA takes over and will then be obliged to fall in line with the rest of Europe. Mind you, that might result in even harsher restrictions on the DA42 - I understand that the French DGAC are seeking to restrict Instrument Ratings gained on the DA42 only to aircraft fitted with the Garmin 1000!!

[moggiee]

It depends where you plan to go next.

If you want to go to an airline, then DA42 plus MCC will do nicely as you will not have to do a differences course to learn about silly stuff such as mixture levers and carb heat etc. (although why you should have to if you have flown something like the PA28 is a mystery).

If you want to get a job with an air taxi/charter outfit then the PA44.

Personally, I would DA42 - look forward, not back.

[Simon_Sez]

I have been in touch with Emma Drakeford at Stapleford in relation to doing the Multi-IR on the Twin Star and she stated that the whole course could be done on the Twin Star, with one hour on the schools Seneca as part of differences training. Obviously this one hour is only realistic if you have an MEP on a piston engine aircraft like the Seminole or Seneca, but still, that's what hour building is for!
Personally, I'm with Moggiee on this one. For us wannabee airlines pilots, doing a Multi-IR on a Seminole, an MCC on a 737-200 and then having to convert to something like a 737-800 (i.e. The Ryanair route, for example) makes less sense than embracing new technology like the DA-42.

Anyway....the debate continues...

Simon.

[thebeast]

Hi all,

related to this thread I was just wondering which flight schools had ordered the twin star? as i sat in one at an airshow and was very impressed, plus the idea of it being easier to fly thus helping with the ir sounds like a sensible approach.

glass cockpit has to be the way forward in terms of future employment!

[flighttime2.0]

simon_Sez

Im curious ! you sing ptc's praises, but seem willing to leave them now once you have a ppl to complete your training elsewhere. There not going to have a da-42 in the near future so are you going to battle on with them being so good or are you going to jump ship?

[moggiee]

We are due to get our DA42s around August-September if there are no hold ups from the factory.

[Simon_Sez]

flighttime2.0,

I sing PTC's praises because they're a very good school. (passed my PPL yesterday by the way, so all smiles here) :}

However, it is very promising to see the DA42 being taken up by flying schools and is encouraging to see that current technology is being embraced in the training market. While I have every intention at present to complete my training at PTC (who have a new Seminole on the way bringing the fleet to two, showing their commitment to a new Multi-CPL & IR Course), it's hard not to want to fly a spanking new airplane like the Twin Star.

Simon.

[silverknapper]

Don't see what the big deal is. It won't make any difference to your job prospects, and won't make any type rating any easier. Plus given the reliability issues if past diamond aircraft, especially the diesel ones, personally I'd stick with the tried and trusted!!

[moggiee]

silverknapper - the problem with the DA40 (Katana) was traced to a third party radiator with solder/welding flux residue causing corrosion in the waterways.

Now sorted.

Of course, conventional aeroplanes are much more reliable - ask a certain Oxfordshire based Seneca operator about their fleet................

[silverknapper]

There were more problems than that - I know a bloke who had one. And they dealt with it poorly. Had I just shelled out nearly £200k on an airplane and the engine had to be replaced I would expect a new replacement, not an old factory one. The fact is Diamond have a history of reliability problems. If I were going to a school which was diamond equipped I would be concerned about any problems.