Leaving VB to join Jetstar ?

[ur2]

I was asked the other day by a friend, who is a junior FO with VB, "should I leave and join Jetstar?".

Well in light of the growth potential and the resultant faster promotion, I thought it would be a good idea. But you have to factor in the A320 endorsement cost. At over $32k it is significant.
And I believe the pay scales are less.

Is there are any Jet* people that could shed some light on this for my friend to help with his decision? :bored:

[Howard Hughes]

Having just paid to join one company to be a "junior F/O" why would your friend want to leave and go to another company where he/she will still be a "junior F/O"?

I don't see the logic there....

Just stay put and wait your turn, while always trying to improve your knowledge and skills. I don't think a move to Jetstar would bring on a promotion any quicker, but would possibly develop a reputation as a que jumper with no real loyalties.

Cheers, HH.

:ok:

PS: Don't know who said it but, "You can't build a reputation on what you are going to do"!!

[jetblues]

Big call there sunshine.

With CC and BG's announcement on the USA routes imminent you are a keen mustard to be thinking of jumping ship.

There is so much more potential for the VB operation just learn some patience. Mind you the paper today reports Jetstar flying ADL-CNS direct, nice one. Good to see them initiate a new route for a change rather than swamping our markets.

You can take your CNS base on the A320 young sprog or wait for the A330/340 slot in SYD with VB.

Not a really tough decision is it ?

[Buster Hyman]

wait for the A330/340 slot in SYD with VB
Have SQ okayed DJ flying beyond Oz???:confused:

[jetblues]

Since when did anyone stop RB doing what he wanted ?

Where there is a will there is a way.

Creative thinking required Buster, we can't give you all the answers and spoil the party.

[Capn Bloggs]

a que jumper with no real loyalties.
Loyalties?! What's that? I fear these days we are just means to an end and loyalities mean diddely squat, unless of course you are talking about keeping your nose clean so you get promoted.... It's every man for himself! Besides, what new employer would think poorly of someone who was trying to better his lot in life by going for a better job? It's not like you owe them anything these days, paying for endorsements and all...
At least with JQ he'll have more ID travel options!

[scrubed]

Good to see them initiate a new route for a change rather than swamping our markets.HAHAHAHAHAAAAA....!!!

Since when has any route at all been "your" market?

Haven't said this for years but - I don't see your name written on it.

You think it makes good business sense to launch into a route which, had it been profitable, would've been exploited by the others years ago???

Hilarious....... :rolleyes:

[KID Quality]

Wow I didn't know Victorian Bitter had branched into the aviation bizness. I have been working with that stuff for years, and while I am still presently only mastering the circuit do you think if your mate leaves you could PM me. I am sure once they see my CV they'll be bowled over!

[jetblues]

Scrubed if you want to be pedantic, you are correct. Crikey wish I had the english degree like you to get every sentence perfect.

Point being that the big Q did not fly on many of the routes in recent times with their shiny jets. VB comes along and then JS follows real quick. Good on every one, and big deal.

I was actually complementing JS on their initiative. I think the easy answer to your question re routes is INNOVATION matey.

[hotnhigh]

Yeah hooray for Jetstar!:yuk: Innovative, Hmmm maybe not. Not much else to choose when the parent elects to get rid of the elder for the new born. As for taking the job at Jetstar. Well it doesn't get any better than CNS does it.
Anyway Jetbs how much will the airbus endorsement cost the vb guys/gals? I'd imagine VS could give you a great deal to head back to LGW to get into the bus sim.:mad:

[jetblues]

Hey HnH I can hear GD saying hooray for Jetstar from his favourite accountants office in Sydney. More nails in the big Q's mainline operation. Yes a shocker.

Re the Airbus ratings, history (including QF's Airbus fleet introduction) suggests the pilots type ratings are usually thrown in "free" as a sweetner and reward for large orders.

We all know Patricks is keen to take a chunk of the air freight market from QF/OZ Post etc. This will need container capability provided by either the Airbus family or B767/777 types.

You could see an Airbus in red clothes sooner than you think.

Time will tell.

[Buster Hyman]

Creative thinking required

Oh...great....I can't wait.:zzz:

:p

[cunninglinguist]

sad but true Bloggsy, even sadder is that these idiots ( management ) don't realise what effect low morale and lack of loyalty has on operating costs.
An old GA boss used to say " you can always tell when the pilots are pi55ed off, brakes wear out quicker, fuel costs go up, etc " funny thing was, he was the biggest offender of pi55ing pilots off !:{ :ugh: :yuk: :mad: :confused:

[Chris Higgins]

He wants to pay for two jobs?!!

[OhForSure]

I wonder who has better 'longer' haul prospects. I could see DJ with VS 340s and JQ with QF 330s... time will tell. Nothing to base that on, but if QF go for 777/787, and VS will retire the 343s eventually... I imagine some changes MAY be in store ahead.

Where are JQ doing the 'Bus rating? BNE? At the DJ sim centre???

[Flying Ninja]

AAAAHHHH.......... I think that you will find that it is the ALTEON
Sim Centre ( a BOEING company not a VB company).
They have a deal to supply VB with a 737 sim. Others are let out at retail to anyone who can pay. Common practice for Alteon who have several such centres around the world.
The tin shed may be leased by VB and houses their ground training and FA dept
Back to the UK boys where each sim session will cost you 1400 pds ,if you can get it ,because Virgin Atlantic training is booked solid for the next year and a half (or more since I spoke to them )
Another $50K by the time you add incidentals, for how much more money ????.
Pocket money for a SYD 340 based job. JET B is right to tell the SPROG? ( just who is the sprog here?) that it doesn't take much to make up your mind.
Buying NEW aircraft attracts training credits, but at a price . VB would OBVIOUSLY have their orders in JB ,or would they ( more likely )pick up old 340 from V.Atlantic . Back to the UK.........and $50K
You boys at VB thought up ""the buy yourself a job program", didn't you?
Maybe that's YOUR market and others shouldn't go there.
Now that's an easy choice for a sprog , maybe not for a seasoned aviator like JetBlew

Nice to see the share price showing confidence in YOUR current MARKET S but to enter the water with the big boys will require lots of $$$$$ spent on things like Infrastructure, equipement, maintenance,staff and SERVICE. Obviously areas included in the current business model of VB. Don't think the "Blue room" concept will compete with what the others have had for decades. International travelers want SERVICE and that costs $$$
:=

[ur2]

AH yes, thats right, VB is the last bastion of the AFAP (pre 89 heroes)in this country. And funnily enough the architects of the "buy your job" system. So much for standing up for your ideals, only when it suits.

[ROKAPE]

Flying Ninja

AAAHHH....I think that you will find, Virgin Blue own the building and ALTEON lease the space. VB own the 737-800 simulator. ALTEON own the 737-700/800/BBJ sim, which is supplied to other customers.

[Flying Ninja]

Rock,
Didn't think it was in the "low cost model " to own buildings.
You might find it's a lease if you look hard enough. If it is owned it would be one of its few assets. Not that something , back of the freight depot is much of an asset.
Yes, they bought ( leased, whatever) the 737 sim with an operating contract from Alteon. The other 737 and 320 sim are Alteon's.Each worth more than the other sim.
Didn't see room for the 340 sim,.............. is that coming soon ????
Did see lots of classrooms that could be converted to reservations or customer lounge areas. Of course they will have to build a whole new building next door in order to teach the "strumpets" how to dress, polish their shoes , speak properly and SERVE. Now that will be a BIG building and definitely an asset .

APE :}

[Cuz]

Hey Jet Blues

Which paper u been reading???

What do u know about CC and BG's "imminent" overseas venture for VB and what does it mean for VB pilot's and recruitment?

thanks

Cuz

[Thumbs up]

Don't get to excited CUZ ,

I'd suggest any thought of CC and BG making any imminate plans about International flying would be at best...fanciful!!.
They've a big enough job looking after their own back yard and if you ask me their own back yard has a lot of looking after required.

Institutional and Mum and Dad investors would linch these two with any sudden announcements which required huge capital injection which also exposes them to more fierce competition..

Unhedged fuel,excess capacity,floundering business model,worthy competition from both ends and languishing share price with no improvement on the horizon........

Does anyone really believe there are international plans imminate!

Virgin is controlled by Qantas......I wonder if CC and BG realise this yet.

Never the less,If I was a young F/O with Virgin I wouldn't be suggesting jumping accross to Jetastar as for reasons others have given here.
:ok: :ok:

[Mr.Buzzy]

The killjoys are "immanate"

bbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Chief Chook]

There are still a few angry little ex-AN people running around with storm clouds over their heads, aren't there.

Why don't you boys join the old boilers in their case against VB - it's quite apparent that you are also VB rejects who just hate seeing them succeed every step of the way.
Tough titties.

Onward and upward, VB.

[Iakklat]

.

[ratpoison]

You were saying Iakklat ????

[Skypatrol]

Our routes? As opposed to what? Virgin doing LHR/SYD? Sounds like you've been listening to Mr Godfrey's dribble a bit too much.

As for jumping ship to J*, why? Surely QF/CX/EK would be the way to go, a move up, not sideways.

(By sideways I mean to another single type, low cost domestic airline as opposed to a multi-type int'l airline)

[HGW]

Flying Ninja, the infrastructure is in place. The set up for VS in SYD was designed for an 8 aircraft operation.

[KID Quality]

They will be looking for offers then! given the current pilot shortage.............all the better for us healthy younger types then. If your moaning you've probabaly been assuming things were harder in earlier years

[Flying Ninja]

HGW
So when do we start ?
I for one am ready to toss my job in up here!!!

I suppose the slot times , parking, A/C certification, AOC ,ground handling contracts and reservations system is all done then.Not a problem at all in Sydney!!

I'm packin' my bag as we speak!!!

How do you get a 'mexican wave" synchronized in divided cabins?
or do you alternate between cabins to reduce boredom?

I'm headin' for the door!!!!!!

How did you teach the tarts to polish their shoes in such a short period of time??
Was part of the infrastructure was to negotiate a deal for liquid polish dispensers at the proposed gates ,aircraft doors or as part of crew kit.

[ur2]

Flying Ninja,
Why are you leaving Asia, I thought that is the place to be. I thought the money is good and flying the "Big Iron" was what it was all about. Why would you want to come home ?

[Pete Conrad]

Yeah HGW, the set up for Pacific Blue was for an 8 aircraft operation by now, and for them to do domestic NZ services by now......But hey, reality set in and guess what, Pacific Blue have 3 aircraft, no domestic operations in sight, and the threat of Jetstar looming in November.

What airlines plan for, and in Virgin's case, what they bullsh!t to the public about, and what actually transpires are two very different things.

[HGW]

Pete, why I am not surprised with your post. Again, nothing to do with PB but you can't help showing your hatred for them. Geez, get over it you tosser.

[KID Quality]

Dad always says.............. "Business is business".............

[Flying Ninja]

Why Leave?
To join the good old boys from '89. Why else?

With their high morals, they will get me a great deal on salary with all the trimmings.
I'll be as rich as a QF captain, they will make a heap of dough, the strumpets will develop some class and learn how to polish their shoes, and QF/CX/SIA/UA/NE will roll over and play dead.

Ok, so the F/As still won't polish their shoes.

All I have to work out is how to pay for this ticket to Nirvana.
Does VB have a pilot finance arm yet?
Could call it "Pay 'til yer Blue"
Question answered ???...... ........crank,crank,crank,crank

:ok:

[Kaptin M]

Why Leave?
To join the good old boys from '89. Why else? Poor diddems, now that the shoe's on the OTHER foot, we don't like it do we :p

[Pete Conrad]

HGW, go back and collect your taxes in that ever so important job you do in the office at the airport.

Does your boss know you sit on your fat bum all day posting responses to my comments about PB, or anyone? or just posting on Pprune in general? Who's the tosser mate?

Between flightsim and your view of the airport, you must really wish you could get out there and be a pilot?

Get over it pal.

[HGW]

Pete, you are the only one who mentions PB in almost every post you make and apply personal attacks.
If you are ever in Sydney I would love to meet you or as usual will you hide behind your computer. Send me a PM and will arrange to meet sometime.
Woomera, it is becoming distastefully hard to contribute to this forum when children like Pete have access. Very rarely does his posts not involve a personal attack on someone who has a different opinion.

[Pete Conrad]

Come off it HGW, I was merely pointing out that all is not what it seems. You were the one who started the name calling my freind.

You are a complete hypocrite HGW, you do nothing but post an attack at me the minute you disagree with me.

Go take a bex and have a cup of tea and a good lay down. Your like a little dobbing child from primary school, if you don't like what I post, don't read it.

And as for meeting a dill like you? my turnarounds in Sydney when I get rostered to fly there are just over an hour, what a waste of time it would be to spend such a short time in a great city that I miss so much with a unit like you. I aint that hard up for freinds!!!

Woomera, look at my first post, it wasn't flame bait for HGW. It certainly wasn't intended as that either.

[HGW]

Pete, I am only a dill because I don't agree with you and it also seems because I am not a pilot as you mention everytime when having a go at me. I actually agree with some things you say and have said so but you are the one who reverts to personal attacks. I simply query why everytime you bring PB into the discussion when it has nothing to do with the original post. I questioned if you were actually a pilot in previous posts because of the 350 or so pilots I come in contact with I have never had dealings with anyone such as you. We work for the same company so we will meet.

[Pete Conrad]

HGW Get over it!

Read your post, you did not query me at all, you reverted to name calling. You want to pick an argument, go for it, I'll argue with you.

Your comment on VS had nothing to do with the post, and I'll say it again, what I posted was to point out that things aren't always as they seem. If it had of been another airline that had failed like PB had over here in NZ, then I would of mentioned them.

Stop wasting time, I will not be justifying myself to you anymore. Get over IT!

[HGW]

Pete, Flying Ninja stated that the infrastructure to handle the new airline needed to be set up. My comment was that VS set up the Sydney ops for up to 8 aircraft but currently only handle one. My sources are telling me that the VS Sydney airport operation would handle the new airline hence saving duplication, SITA, res sytems and time. Thats all, nothing to do with PB. You mentioned PB and I queried why. Didn't realise you are a Kiwi.

[KID Quality]

I think you 2 should meet .................................you sound gay (I am very approving by the way). Maybe you could flame away more directly on MSN, they even have cameras!
This is more for serious PROFESSIONAL PILOTs!!!!!
Best of luck
KQ

[Flying Ninja]

Kraptin,

Pretty poor retort.
You must be losing your touch in your aviation twilight years.

Shoe on the other foot? haw , haw haw, haw,haw !!

Maybe we can join up as sim buddies for the endorsement, share the cost and the laughs.

Me thinks, you are the one who doesn't like it.

:} :} :} :} :} :} :} :} :} :} :} :} :}

[Pete Conrad]

HGW, I aint Kiwi, and for someone who apparently tells me that I work in the same airline as them, and that you apparently deal with 350 pilots a day, you clearly have no idea. Stop wasting time HGW.

You have already given the impression to a few here that you may be a bit feminine, stop making me look anything other than what I am, feircly hetero.