RN Aircrew

[2close]

Hi troops,

MY son is interested in flying in the RN, preferably fixed wing fast stuff but also very interested in rotary.

The reason he chose the RN is owing to a good job by the guys at the London Air Show and of course, the RAF isn't recruiting to the same level.

In any case, he's 16, doing his GCSEs and expecting good grades in all (except RE!) and is off to study A Levels in Maths, Computer Science, History and Music Science in September.

He's looking to register on the RN Flying Start scheme asap.

He is very independent and not a mammy's boy by any stretch of the imagination so moving from home won't be a problem.

He's done some light aircraft flying and throughly enjoys it and now that I'm moving back to Swansea he will probably complete his PPL this summer. I'm also hoping to get him a jolly in a Hunter or a Provost this summer (subject to exam results of course!!!)

Any advice from any of you learned chaps and chappeses out there?

Cheers,

2close

[airborne_artist]

I'll be the first to congratulate him on a fine decison, and you for breeding him!

Have a search on here for FAA-related threads, and be aware that the banter to/from the light blue is part of the job!

This is the

BRNC (http://www.britannia.ac.uk/) web site.

[Fg Off Bloggs]

If I'm right, at 16 and by the time he completes his pilot training (circa 5 years from now without university) he won't get much opportunity for FJs in the FAA! SHAR goes out of service before then (only one sqn op now) and all Harrier (RN FJ) opportunities are with the RAF. JSF is due in service in 2012 but govt are already talking about reduced numbers and smaller carriers and the fleet will be split FAA/RAF as Harrier replacement. Therefore, statistically, if he wants the best opportunity to fly FJs, then the RAF must present the best opportunity: Typhoon; Tornado GR4 & F3; Hawk (100 Sqn) & Harrier GR9 will all be in service when your son is ready and available for pilot training, whereas the RN will be downsizing its FJ pilots numbers until it gears up again for JSF. Statistically, if you join the RN now (or after your son's A-levels) to fly before JSF enters service the odds are against you flying FJ but definitely inclined to a career on choppers.

Only my opinion and nothing official intended or implied!

PS. Fair response, A-A, but slightly disingenuous given the lad's desire to fly FJ!

[siysmum]

As someone who's going through selection at present I've looked at all the options.

First, there's a common misconception that the RN are recruiting more Pilots; this is incorrect. At present the RAF have a requirement for around 100 Pilots into training, and the RN around 40. There will always be more RAF slots (especially FW) because they operate more a/c.

Second, go and visit a boat and see if you would want to live on it for 6 months! - I wouldn't/didn't.

[vecvechookattack]

Good man. He is interested in joining the finest band of brothers who by far and away are the most professional aviators this country can be proud of. He will be joining a service with tradition and with pride. You will notice that the majority of moaners and whingers on this site fly with our junior service and so it is to his credit that he will be joining a service with a future and with a company of men who are proud and who strongly believe the RN have a bright and productive prospect. My only advice would be for him to go to Uni…get a degree (pick an easy one as it doesn’t matter what it is), have a laff as a stude for a few years and then sign on. Good luck to him.

[Bob Viking]

May I just say good luck, and whatever happens tell him not to give up and go for what he really wants to do.
As for vecvec, are you honestly trying to suggest there is any difference in the level of proffesionalism between the services?
Both are highly proffesional and to suggest otherwise is a very narrow minded view.
If the lad one day decides the RAF is what he really wants how is he to then take your advice?!
BV

[BEagle]

Yep, vecvechookattack is right to some extent. Finish off PPL, then off to University for some degree course or other. Do one which is in English, doesn't have too many sums, has shed loads of babes and quite a few field trips. Something pi$$-easy like Geography should do - and it might be handy when bouncing around the briny on HMS Improbable if your aviating skills aren't quite what pusser wants and you end up with a brass telescope under your arm doing the Cap'n Birdseye thing on the bridge.

You might even get to learn where the rocks are off New Zealand....:E

[Splash Coxswain]

BEagle,

That's really, really, helpful! Well done.

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Fm Beagle

bouncing around the briny on HMS Improbable


LMAO mate, do you have a crystal ball or is it inside info ?

Just how did you know the new name of the coastguards new carriers.

[cobaltfrog]

Fg Off Bloggs

May I suggest that you obtain correct info before posting about the RN and FAA recruitment. The FACT is that we are not downsizing our FJ community and we are certainly not looking for lower numbers. Those who have passed Grading and achieve the correct standard at DEFTS will be streamed FJ. Yes they will train through the RAF pipeline but they will wear RN uniform and go to mixied Squadrons where RN Officers may be the executive Officers.

I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

Yours aye

CF

[Flik Roll]

I fully recommend geography :ok:

[Fg Off Bloggs]

CF, old boy, no need to get hot under the collar! If you read my post again, I open with the words:

If I'm right

therefore, it was, as stated, the facts as I am aware of them!

Of course you are correct to set the record straight and I am sure that the lad's father will appreciate your comment, but the facts remain, if you want to fly fast jets, you have a greater percentage chance of doing so in the Royal Air Force than in the RN!

It's just a fact!

[firmrashhaze]

Mmmm, wondered how long it would take for the handbags to come out.

In my humble opinion - having worked closely with both light and dark blue FJ - I would say that there are definitely more opportunities for flying in the RAF but that the RN has a very different (excuse pun) spin on military aviation. Yes, things will be limited to GR7a/GR9a in the FJ arena - don't forget Lynx Mk8, Junglies - even the white elephant Merlin has its attractions - well, maybe not Merlin then. Admittedly the crabs don't really enjoy going to sea, but then thats not what they joined up for.
If the future goes as Tony, and not Gordon, plans then the sight of F-35B/C waxing off the flight deck of a 65,000 tonne carrier will surely make some of the light blue a touch green. Which other job lets you go on holiday in your house, with your mates and a very large, well-stocked bar to sunny parts of the world and do silly things?

Now cut the bitching and accept the way the world is!

[snafu]

2close

Firstly, congratulations to your son (and yourself) for realising that the Senior Service is the way ahead! After nearly 15 years in the Service, I'm still enjoying my job and am both proud and privileged to be involved with the organisation that I am part of. We have a better reputation with our customers than our junior brethren in light blue, don't take ourselves too seriously and know how to enjoy ourselves. Where else could you spend 4 days anchored off the British Virgin Islands, get called upon to provide 10 days of disaster relief in Central America and finish it up with another 5 days alongside in downtown Miami?

The point about getting a degree is a good one (as much as I disagreed with my old man about it when I was 16!) It's even better if he can persuade the RN to sponsor him while he's there and provide a few extra drinking tokens. I'm not sure what the deals are these days, but the Careers Office should know.

As much as it pains me to say it, the Crabs may have better opportunities to fly FJ, but the RN still has some of the same opportunities - we're just a little smaller. We've also got a whole raft of rotary jobs that could result in him serving anywhere from the Antarctic to the Arctic, the desert or the jungle. At the end of the day, your son needs to look at the bigger picture than just the aircraft and look at the way of life, attitude to the job and ethos of each of the services. The best way to do this would be to head down to the RN careers office and ask about a Potential Officer's Course. A couple of days at an Royal Naval Air Station and he'll be even keener than before!

Fly Navy
Go Royal
Dig Army
Eat Crab:E

[SSSETOWTF]

2close,

Frankly, I don't envy you too much. If you do nothing, soon your son will turn to the Dark Side. What does that mean to you? Every time you see him he'll bore you senseless with endless wittering on about the 'senior service', and arbitrary and totally groundless nonsense like:

"We have a better reputation with our customers than our junior brethren in light blue" and "by far and away are the most professional aviators this country can be proud of"

I suppose when you have a permanent service-wide inferiority complex you have to make up random unsubstantiated claims of your own greatness. It always seemed to me that people who are top of their game don't usually have to blow their own trumpet each and every time they open their mouth. Having said that, some of the RN do genuinely seem to enjoy their lives in windowless grey boxes, sitting around whining about how rubbish the Crabs are and blindly ignoring their own faults. Best of luck to the chap, whichever career he chooses.

Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly

[beerdrinker]

2Close. Check PM's

[Arkroyal]

He is very independent and not a mammy's boy by any stretch of the imagination errrr.....

So why's his Dad posting for him?:confused:

Sorry, had to be said. I'll get me coat.

Anyway, without attacking the light blue, who in my experience, were just as good as us individually, but hampered by a rigid command tree, good on him.

My 16 years were the most fun I could have asked for.
Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly
Yeah right. The less blinkered might just find commando helicopters with a bit of SAR and QHI/QFI ing a more balanced career.

[Bob Viking]

SSSETOWF.
I don't normally make a habit of agreeing with Harrier mates, but I have to say that I agree with you whole-heartedly. Inferiority complex was going to be my exact same choice of words. The claim about being much more respected was pure, unadulterated horse-sh1t! As for vecvec saying it's the crabs always starting these childish name calling sessions he really should ake a closer look at some of these threads and realise he is a first class hypocrite.
However, SSSETOWTF I agree with single seat but really can't agree with the single engine part of your moniker no matter how hard I try. No jokes about lack of thrust please. That's just too obvious!
BV

[snafu]

SSSETOWF and Bob V

Sorry to disillusion you, but if you ask the RM or Army infanteers who they would rather have operating in support of them, I think you'll find that the Junglies have the reputation that I referred to.

Ark Royal hit the nail on the head in that individually the Crabs are just as professional as the RN but have tended to be bound by more restrictive rules and regulations. That said, I can't believe you'd expect me to let that get in the way of a little banter!! :ok:

[sarmonkey]

Seems like a spoof banter-starting post to me, but what the heck......

If there's one area we light blues are poor in (actually there's several), it's recruitment.

And that's because we don't have to do it very often, because we're over-subscribed (uncomfortable fact alert for the senior service).

Good luck whichever way Junior goes - I'd recommend starting with the RAF for the statistical reasons listed above. He could always go mighty RN dark blue senior service band of brothers professional aviators"hurrah I'm on a ship with all my mates for 6 months in a 4-man cabin and a shoebox for my possessions and no I always wanted to join the Navy really no honestly I did" if he got chopped.

Pip pip

[Colonel W E Kurtz]

Are you really sure you want your son to join the RN? Many of the people I went through training with are now dead. Think about that for a momnent.
These days you are really working for a government that only cares about one thing: oil.
I suggest a civilian flying career as a better alternative. The RN will screw your boy from begining to end. Just some advice from someome who has seen the light.

[Arkroyal]

Can't go along with that, Colonel. Why so screwed up?

I was chatting last night to my colleague on the way to spain, as he despaired at facing another 30+ years of commercial plodding along the airways.

I am soooo glad I did my jungly time first. Yes, a shed load of my mates are in Yeovilton church yard and elsewhere supporting the sod, but I'll bet none of them would have chosen a different career path. Life's full of risk. Embrace it.

That said, I would have reservations about Tony's wars.

Snafu, fair point. I must be getting old. I simply didn't want the banter to cloud the serious question posed by the thread.

[SSSETOWTF]

Arkroyal/snafu,

Just to clarify then - if I ask a Jungly pilot, he'll tell me that he thinks he has the best reputation in the world. It's hardly an unbiased opinion poll is it? And are you saying my career would achieve 'balance' if I flew RN Jungly Sea Kings, RN SAR Sea Kings and spent some time on the RN Sea King OCU? Not sure I agree with you on that one either. Each to their own, eh?

Single Seat, Single Engine, The Only Way To Fly

(and Bob V - you know it makes sense. None of that worrying about Decision Speed, Refusal Speed, Critical Engine Fail Speed, Single Engine Take Off Speed, Single Engine Climb Speed etc etc etc. It's so much simpler with one motor.)

[Bob Viking]

SSSEOWTF.
You must be kidding. We don't worry about those things either. With just one engine, we'd never get airborne anyway!
Also, I have the utmost respect for Junglie pilots but I much prefer my job thanks. We all have a job to do, lets just accept that we enjoy different things!
BV

[2close]

Many thanks for the replies, guys,

I really did not expect such a response and I am grateful for all of the advice, which I shall point out to him later on.

Just to set the matter straight on a couple of points.

Why didn't he ask the question himself? He doesn't even know this site exists at the moment and I posed the question on his behalf in a rare moment of inspired thought. I suppose I'd better let him know what I've done now...doh! But I'm glad I did - there's some food for thought for him when he reads this thread - hopefully he'll take part himself (if he can drag himself off the X-Box).

Definitely not a spoof post, 100% genuine request for advice.

As for the career in civilian aviation, the question was asked and there was not a glimmer of enthusiasm, unlike the sparkle that arose with the thought of flying military hardware. The civilian option could always follow on as a second career.

I can see the benefits of both RAF and RN options and I suppose he would be pretty dopey not to at least look at both.

Again, many thanks and I will make sure the posts are passed on.

2close

[airborne_artist]

Col K

Wash your mouth out with soap - suggesting youngster takes the devil's money and pilots a scheduled a/c from the start of his career.

Military aviation was invented so that young men could work hard, play hard, and then have even more fun afterwards!

ArkRoyal - getting old? - you were ancient when you started mate - how you concealed your Zimmer as you struggled up the hill to BRNC I'll never know.

2close - give him plenty of encouragement - it's a fine choice, and his Mum will shed a tear as she seems him march off to the RM band at Dartmouth.

Whatever the RAF say - they don't, and will never have the Royal Marines band. I've seen grown men weep as the RM Beat Retreat - and if he only joins the RN for that then he's made an excellent decision.

[AllTrimDoubt]

God, with replies like that I'm almost looking forward to going back to work tomorrow!

[Fire 'n' Forget]

Whatever the RAF say - they don't, and will never have the Royal Marines band. I've seen grown men weep as the RM Beat Retreat - and if he only joins the RN for that then he's made an excellent decision.

LMAO, mmm I wonder is airborne artist like this at work? can you imagine the crewroom emptying, or the polite visit to the WC in the mess, interesting bloke.

[engineer(retard)]

FnF

I can imagine the sound effects in trap 1 with AA playing the porcelain tuba. :sad:

Retard

[cobaltfrog]

FnF and Engineer

Shame you do not know whom you are talking about!!

[Arkroyal]

ArkRoyal - getting old? - you were ancient when you started mate - how you concealed your Zimmer as you struggled up the hill to BRNC I'll never know. airborne..............

You are too cruel. As for the zimmer, Jack London hid it for me:{

[Bigtop]

Too Close,

Keep an eye on the recuritment pages and if necessary PM me. The chap you need to talk to here is Si Clik.

1. Going to Uni - stand by for a possible reduction in recruitment age for aircrew. Could limit his opportunities. Flying scholarships, Flying Camps etc are all up for grabs but if he does go to uni fleece the UAS for all their worth then go dark blue - even if just for the banter and dit value.

2. Don't take the RAF/RN opportunity banter too seriously. If your lad wants to be fast jet single seat the standard is the same - they train alongside each other, pass together, fail together. It's just those that aren't good enough for FJ single seat seat in the RAF get to fly an aircraft with a voice activated nav system (AKA Navigator), whereas in the RN we only take the best of the best so they then end up RW.

3. Even if streamed RW in the RN there is an avenue to go FJ later on once a bit of experience under the belt, known as SMAC 309.

4. At the mo there is serious consideration being given to grading obs for FJ potential. Afterall, the first RN GR7 guy isn't a thoroughbred FJ pilot.

5. Oh and we're desparate. Lots of spaces so if he has any glimmer of potential we'll try and tap it. See RAF thread - they stacked out and don't need to recruit!

[goffer hopper]

If I were you I'd give serious consideration to getting in early. The chances are that if you have what it takes to become a FJ aviator then he'll be ideally placed for the JSF. The Navy offers some fantastic flying and great career opportunities.
There is not much more challenging or rewarding in the aviation world than embarked operations. Its the sport of kings!

[WeaselRN]

Good work on persuading our friend on going dark blue, but the first RN GR7 guy was an ab initio non grad. AKA sranners

[2close]

Thanks again, guys (and, Spud, I hope you're reading this as advised).

It look as though it's going to be the Flying Start programme, to get some insights into life in the service (he was only 5 1/2 when he ceased being a pad brat so I can't expect him to remember too much).

He's been to the CIO where he was advised to come back when he starts his A Levels in September and to apply then.

Apparently a 1 on 1 interview with a RN Lt. will take place to assess suitability - any pointers on preparation for this? Is it usual stuff like Organisation, Role, History, Hardware, Deployments, etc.?

Assuming he passes this stage, the next hurdle he's been told is the Admiralty Board. That should be fun for him.

Cheers again.

2close
(and yes, it was TOO close, far too bl**dy close)