How do new pilots find their way from the runway to the terminals?

[jumjum]

How do new pilots driving a plane find their way from the runway to the correct terminal gate at big airports eg singapore and hongkong while on their first flight.

[LukeEGTE]

Driving?

They have maps (charts) and ATC instructions.

[chuks]

If you are really having a bad day then you can 'Request progressive taxi instructions,' when the ground controller will tell you very exactly which way to proceed. However, this might not be a real good idea during a busy time at a large airport!

And, anyway, everything at a big airport is colour-coded and well-marked with big yellow signboards. Well, except for DNMM (Murtala Muhammed Airport, Ikeja Nigeria), where even experienced newcomers are sometimes at a loss.

Usually one pilot is doing the 'driving' and the other is reading the chart if there is any reason for doubt about the correct way to go.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

If things get really, really difficult ATC can organise a leader vehicle. This is a Landrover type machine with a large illuminated sign on the back which says "FOLLOW ME".

We used this one day at Heathrow for a 747... we even needed the leader vehicle to get the guy on to the runway, whereupon the leader driver said: "Can he manage alone now?"

[WHBM]

If you go to some foreign airports the Follow Me vehicle is used for everyone from overseas. This applies where ground control and those on it (which of course includes many vehicles as well as aircraft) are not all fluent in English.

Always amuses me to go to St Petersburg, Russia, where the BA A320 is led in by an old Lada car with a flashing yellow light loosely plonked on the roof. He needs to lead all non-Russian speaking aircraft.

[Irish Steve]

How do new pilots driving a plane find their way from the runway to the correct terminal gate at big airports

If their experience is anything like mine, with GREAT difficulty. What made it even worse was landing at night, having to talk to a controller who's first language isn't English, (BRU), and having to find my way to the GA terminal in a small light twin, which means that most of the indications that are easily visible from the flight deck of a "normal" commercial aircraft are almost invisible from a window that's less than 5 Ft off the ground.

The "maps" that come as part of the navigation books from Jeppesen or Aerad help, but only so far.

The problems are not confined to small aircraft, I've also heard 330 drivers exclaim in utter frustration "Now where the :mad: does he want us to go!!!"

The most dangerous part of any flight is the time between the wheels touching ground and the wheels leaving ground for the next trip:E :E

[Intruder]

Have the "less new" pilot show them! :D

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Now who was that clever dick pilot who said he didn't need Heathrow's "reds and greens"?!

For jumjum's info, this is a system of green lights which can be illuminated along the centre of all taxiways to guide aircraft at night from the runway right to the stand. A red bar is illuminated across the route if it is not safe to continue. It's all done by ATC people who are streets above the ability of any normal human being - the Lighting Operators.

[Windy Militant]

Or on a bicycle ;)

Le Touquet Follow me Bike (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53694&highlight=follow+me+bike) :ok:

[haughtney1]

I reckon LGW has some of the worst..and most confusing signage ever.!:yuk:

[ATIS]

LGW is a dream compared to Manchester. The taxiway charts are a mess.

[Gerhardt]

And I love progressive taxiing where the controller spits the instructions out all at once and at lightning speed. Just for fun I'd like to come back with "turn left here, right?" :O

[Milt]

ATC ground at Berlin became exasperated whilst guiding an old BAA captain to a gate and asked tersely

"Haven't you been here before ?"

"Yes a few times in the 40s but didn't stay!!"

[Taildragger67]

Windy Militant -

That Le Touquet bike should be in the caption competition.

LHR’s light guidance is a cracker.

There is an old story told of an incident at a busy US airfield where, due to a pilot who was unfamiliar with the field misunderstanding the SMC’s directions, two 727s ended up facing each other on the same taxiway, with the only way out being for one of them to get pushed back out.

The (female) surface controller then proceeded to give the crew of the errant aircraft a good ear-bashing, telling them just what she thought of them, their piloting skills, their airline and anything else she could think of and informing them that it’d be at least half an hour before she’d have time to get a tug to them.

Once the serve had ended and quiet had descended over the Ground frequency, it was broken by another pilot piping up with, “Wasn’t I married to you once?”

[Maude Charlee]

If they have enough fuel they just do what some of our oversees friends do at NCL - keep taxying around either until you spot your stand, ATC give you directions, or Airside Ops come out and show you. It's always amusing being out on stand awaiting the a/c only to see it disappear rapidly off down the wrong side of the terminal. :}

[Irish Steve]

It's always amusing being out on stand awaiting the a/c only to see it disappear rapidly off down the wrong side of the terminal.

Not when it's gone down a cul de sac by mistake, and there's not enough clearance to allow it to do a 180 and escape.

There's no fun at all in having to get something like an MD80 pushed back several hundred metres so that it can then be towed to the right stand, it's so darn low, depending on the size of the tug, you can't see the centre line to keep it going in the right direction.

The other certainty is that right in the middle of this exercise, which is screwing up half the stands on that side of the terminal, another aircraft that is tight on it's slot time needs to push, and you've got the only suitable bar on this aircraft.

Oh the joys of ramp operation :E :E

[mad_jock]

I would agree that the point after gear is on the deck to the point the gear off the deck is bar having to get the QRH book out the highest workload of flying at a large airport.

Take MAN

118.62 "xxx Next right contact ground 121.85"
xxx "Ground 121.85 xxx"
xxx "xxx runway vacated kilo charlie"
121.85 "xxx charlie, Juliet, hold juliet 8 give way to the dash then stand 16"

Then grab the taxi chart while doing after landers keep a good eye on Alpha in case some prick in a citation misses the corp handeling hanger and heads off down juliet. Check down lima that a 737-200 isn't at TO power heading towards Delta1, cross and try and find J8 which is a splodge of paint in the middle of a huge expanse of concrete. Wait for a dash to lanch itself out the culdisac towards F1 then up and engine shut downs. In total from gear on the deck, 4 mins to engine shut downs.

This is normal. Then all it takes is one cock up or work in progress and it all becomes very complicated. And any div from normal routings becomes "Where the F*** is D5" followed by "o f*** we are on charlie we were ment to go up to alpha then up to D5"

Going out.

xxx "xx request taxi"
121.85 "xxx right turn taxi F1, hold short 24R"
xxx "right turn F1 hold short 24R xxx"

While taxing the taxi checks complete up to gust locks because we will need the power to get over the bump and not do an Air France causing the one on finals to go around.

60secs later

121.85 "xxx hold short 24R contact tower 118.62"
xxx "hold short 24R 118.62 xxx"
xxx "xxx holding short 24R F1"
118.62 "xxx after landing A320 left to right cross 24R F1"

Quick check up finals shows 4 landing aircraft all quite close together.

118.62 "xxx taxi V5 contact twr 119.4"
xxx "twr 119.4 xxx"
xxx "twr xxx taxing V5"
119.4 "xxx line up 24L VA1"
xxx "line up 24L VA1 xxx"
119.4 "xxx cleared take off 24L"

After start checks to TO 5 mins.

You might think that sounds simple but you also have another 20 aircraft on frequency all your normal checks to do while keeping a bloody good look out making sure the person driving knows where they are going and checking that someone hasn't gone the wrong way.

Man ATC are bloody good. And when things do go tits up they are very good at sorting things out with minimal fuss. And no tears and bollockings on the RT and some deserve them. And cock ups are made by veterans in that place.

MJ

[chiglet]

Will post this in Manch Tower tomorrow AM
Thanx MJ

[C_M_I]

making sure the person driving knows where they are going
And cock ups are made by veterans in that place

I am sure that the captains you fly with are reassured to know that the low houred first officer there are flying with is there to make sure they get it right, proberly.

[Fox Alpha]

"...keep a good eye on Alpha in case some prick in a citation misses the corp handeling hanger and heads off down juliet..."

Sorry. I will remind my colleagues what we are known as, on your behalf.

Chiglet........... you are having a laugh aren't you?!

[Wheelybin]

Picture the scene, poor old airfield operations were here ,there and everywhere trying desperately to keep up with the amount of jobs they had to do. Eventually it fell apart and they ended up stuck behind the a/c they were supposed to be marshalling. The call went out from the controller over the r/t

"Welcome to XXX the only airport in the world that provides an I'll follow you vehicle!"