Naples Air Centre - The Truth

[NaplesStudent]

Hello,

I thought I would enlighten you to some of my recent experiences whilst undertaking training in the USA at Naples Air Centre.

1) The accommodation is miles away from the flight school. Many students had a good 30 mins bike ride every morning and evening. The accommodation is also very expensive. Naples is an expensive area so be prepared for that. Also, don’t be surprised if when you arrive there’s no accommodation arranged for your stay. It was quite common to see students wandering around trying to find flats to rent and worrying how long they would have to put up with large hotel bills.

2) The training schedule changes constantly. You get in for 7am and then discover your plane has been mysteriously given to another student. No one bothers to let you know and your next slot is at 5pm. Great! You're quite tired by then. One student I remember turned up and didn't get an aircraft for the first two weeks he was there.

3) The school is small and they try and pack in as many students as possible. They even pack in a full ATPL ground school class into one small room. The one toilet for everyone is great too, every break is spent cross-legged in a queue. How those guys put up with their conditions is amazing....

4) Edited:

5) Students were frequently failing PPLs. The instructors hate working there and are very vocal about this fact when they're socialising. Poor treatment of the instructors by the management rubs off on the training the students receive. There's just no motivation.

6) The flight slots for each student are back to back leaving very little time for any kind of instruction on the ground. Everything is done in the plane. It's quite difficult to learn everything in the air. It's expensive too ! Make sure you do your ground exams before leaving the UK. You will get no help whatsoever once you are there. Students spend a lot of time just standing around not knowing what on earth is going on regarding their training and receiving no help, even when you ask for it time and again!

7) Attaining a PPL in three weeks is almost impossible at NAC. Schedule in at least five weeks and be prepared to stay longer. Flying an hour every couple of days is the norm when it gets busy.

The main objective of Naples Air Centre is to milk as much cash as possible out of students whilst they are there. They know most of us will only be there for a set number of weeks and once we’re gone that’s it.

I chose Naples Air Centre because of the good press it receives on pprune. I was very disappointed indeed and it was a very sad start to my aviation career. The management are very rude. If English is not your first language, expect to treated as though you are a bit thick.

The training was poor to say the least. Cost-wise, it would have been similar to training in the UK once all is said and done. I found out too late but once you are at an FTO in the States, you can change schools. Just contact the school you wish to move to and they will arrange the visa amendments.

I feel very foolish having gone to NAC. I've parted with a large sum of money and received poor quality training and was treated very badly when I was there.

Good Luck,

Naples Student

[2Donkeys]

I hope that you can substantiate some of the statements you make there. There are several that are actionable.

2D

[flyingmad]

Someone please tell me this is not true - I am going there in a few weeks to do my PPL. Anyone there at the moment and finding it to be well run. I hope this is a competitor just doing the norm!

[Sensible]

Yup, we’ve seen it all before, first posting of a load of vitriolic tosh. What happened, couldn’t you cut the mustard or wouldn’t they wipe your nose for you?

In fact this tosh is having it's second airing. The first time it was quite properly deleted and treated with the contempt that it deserves.:mad:

[Ninety-Nines]

The above posting by Naples student is a repeat posting from a couple of weeks ago that was removed without my request and is full of absolute rubbish....

1. Accommodation:

Student condominiums (furthest) = 1.5-2.3 miles from the school
http://maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=apf&taddr=4190+looking+Glass+Lane&csz=&country=us&tcsz=naples%2C+fl+34104&tcountry=us (maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=apf&taddr=4190+looking+Glass+Lane&csz=&country=us&tcsz=naples%2C+fl+34104&tcountry=us)

Wellesley Inn = 2.4 miles maps.yahoo.com/dd_result?newaddr=apf&taddr=1555+5th+ave+s&csz=&country=us&tcsz=naples%2C+fl+34102&tcountry=us

Please note all cycling consists two long straight roads with no hills!

2. You will need to name this student that did not fly for two weeks.....me thinks this has NEVER happened unless a student requested not to fly!

Slots have started at 0800 since Summertime started. Please state your name and I will confirm the one or two times max that you would have turned up at 0700 with no slot!

3. 100% of the residential ATPL students that just completed their ATPL's ( 90% 1st time pass rate) have chosen to stay and complete their flight training with NAC. A choice that was theirs to make. I guess that they are all unhappy.

The NAC facility consists of 4400 sq feet.......

Need I continue Moderators!

[SR20flyDoc]

Well, If you are sensible to this post, maybe some student with other/same experiences can hop on ?

http://www.airwork.nl/bulletinboard/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3179&highlight=naples

States "chaos" in Dutch, worn out planes, no briefing rooms, and briefings in the plane.

http://fly.wiser.hm/vliegscholen/Naples.asp

States "not bad at all, but be prepared to spend some extra time"
"Managment verry worried when money on account dropping"
"Had the same instructor for a few weeks and was very satisfied with him"

Let's make the facts clear for flyingmad

S.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
And as a finishing touch, God created the Dutch

[Sensible]

Student condominiums (furthest) = 1.5-2.3 miles from the school Either NaplesStudent was riding a noddy bike or was a hopeless navigator ;) 30 minutes to cover the distance would not be unreasonable in either of these circumstances:}

[Seven Squared]

Yup, we’ve seen it all before,

Hang on Sensible, what we've seen many times before is every time a single negative post about NAC is made, either you or Charlie Zulu pop up like punch and Judy to defend the place.
Now I don't doubt that you both have had positive experiences (god knows you've made enough posts about it) but how about keeping quiet just once so that those people who have not had such perfect experiences post the other side of the story.

I have been a recent student of NAC and quite a large chunk of the above is indeed true. Different people will have had different experiences but mine was not an overly positive one.



Here's my addition to what has been said:

Flying Schedules:
During my time there I lost track of the number of times my schedule was amended. This didn't particularly bother me as I usually got two lessons despite the changes. What did bother me was being bumped off the schedule an hour or two before my flight due to their lack of proper planning or worse still having them totally forget to schedule you in for the day. They regularly overbook which means that most students do not get the flying time that they were promised.


Students frequently failing PPL's.
This was not the case when I was there but may well have changed.

Instructors:
When I was there the instructors were a great bunch of guys. But as NAC (like many schools) has a high turnover of instructors so I doubt many of them are still there.
The quality of instruction that I received was great but each and every instructor I spoke to strongly disliked the management and sometimes this showed.


PPL in 3 weeks.
Very unlikely. Most students I know arranged to be there for 4 weeks and still ended up extending their stays. This was basically due to overbooked by NAC which meant they did not get the required amount of flying time.


The main objective of Naples Air Centre is to milk as much cash as possible out of students whilst they are there.

A bit extreme but not that far off the mark.
Day one is a perfect example: Almost as soon as you get there you sold as many items as they can get you to buy. Many students do not really know what is needed and are sold unnecessary equipment, for example PPL students being sold IFR Kneeboards and AFE - ARC2 instead of much cheaper whiz wheels. [If you do decide to go to NAC, make sure you purchase all the equipment from the pilot store across the road. The guy than runs it is infinitely nicer and more helpful than anyone at NAC and his prices are cheaper]

On the other side of the coin the don't like spending money. I.e. Richard tells all the instructors not to use the landing lights as he doesn't like paying for them to be replaced.

Fleet:
Mostly old and worn but functional - like many Florida schools I suppose. The Alarus was in the best shape and the Seminole the worst. In fact it was barely legal and nearing the very end of its life.

Attitude toward customers.
Mixed but mainly poor. If you want an example try sending them an email and see how long it takes for them to get back to you. It seems they just can't be bothered as they're booked up anyway.


One final point, trying to get your $500 deposit back is often like getting blood from a stone. I managed to claw mine back after 5 weeks, 6 emails and few phone calls. This is certainly not an isolated case either.


The above is simply a summary of the experiences I had while at NAC. I'm not out to wind anyone up, I don't have a grudge against the school and I don't have a hidden agenda.
I just call it like I see it. If you don't like what I've written, feel free to ignore it - but just don't say you weren't warned.

[Sensible]

Hang on Sensible, what we've seen many times before is every time a single negative post about NAC is made, either you or Charlie Zulu pop up like punch and Judy to defend the place Would you prefer that I and CZ re-register as a new identity everytime the same as the numbnuts who make negative posts about NAC? :p All I can say is that if anybody thinks NAC is bad, they just haven't been anywhere else!If you want an example try sending them an email and see how long it takes for them to get back to you. It seems they just can't be bothered as they're booked up anyway. That in itself speaks volumes about the place! As you say, they are booked up because their reputation keeps the place full! There have been numerous posts about their e-mail system, the fact is that spammers have all but destroyed the effectiveness of e-mails. If anybody has trouble using the phone, I would suggest that they don't try flying because using the radio will completely confound them! :=

[ChocksAwayUK]

quote:
If you want an example try sending them an email and see how long it takes for them to get back to you. It seems they just can't be bothered as they're booked up anyway.

That in itself speaks volumes about the place!

Quite.

Thankfully I've found Air Desert Pacific to be an organisation I'll quite happily give my business to. They've been bending over backwards to help me out following by troubles with Naples. Emails replied to within hours, aircraft available, they haven't lied to me in order to keep my interest. I get picked up from my hotel (2 miles away) every morning (hey, it's LA, no one walks!) and dropped back later. If Sensible thinks those who criticize NAC haven't experienced a really bad school, though this may be true, i'd suggest he hasn't experienced a good one. Obviously my experience with NAC was entirely negative but also I've recieved 1st hand reports backing up much of what the threadstarter has to say.

And Sensible - with regard to the phone. Of the 8 or so times that I've tried phoning i got through to someone once (phoning between 8-10pm GMT) and was lied to about the availability of planes in order to get me to enrol. Once i left a very clear precise answer phone message that was ignored.

The one email reply that i ever received (in reply to several of mine) from anyone other than Nikki was one line of bad english with absolutely no helpful info in. Spam is no excuse.

And why should those who criticize NAC be "Numbnuts"? They're just telling the truth in order to help others make a good decision.. what's your roll in these threads (that are becoming tellingly common)?

Oh, but one positive - contrary to others' in this thread's experience i got my deposit back very quickly. Though this was seen to by Ninety-Nines in light of a thread on here rather than by the admin.

[Ninety-Nines]

Whilst I recommend everyone to speak their mind I (the one who is known)would like to point out a number of items to the anonymous:

1. The only students that are offered the ARC II are those that when asked say that they are continuing forward towards CPL....no-one in their right mind would spend $129.95 as opposed to 29.98 unless they need to. THat is why the question is asked......funny enough our profit margin is higher on the ASA or Jepsen brand cheapo US flight computer than the imported ARC II that I have huge shipping charges on and an exchange rate completely against me.

Please tell me what equipment you were fitted with that you did not need and I will be happy to refund you....however I am sure that you used it all. Indeed, please tell me what was more expensive.....I just this evening had a joke with someone who spent more on an item at the pilot shop......albeit $2.00 but on a $8 item it is quite a bit. I am sure that we vary either way on the items.

2. As for flight schedules.....these are moved around on a daily basis to accommondate students. When students arrive, they are told that the schedule will move around and to check with the desk as the end of the day. For example......an Instructor wants to schedule a student in his available slot at 10-12 however the plane is not available. If however he moves his 12-14 student to 10-12 then he can fit in this other student with the plane at 12-14.

Flight Intructors plan the schedule for up to 5 days ahead. Another example......a student is fairly well and a solo cross country is planned for two days time......however, the winds pick up and he cannot go......we will then try to change the schedule to fit him/her in the next day......that may mean that you are moved from your 10-12 slot to 8-10....another move......it will happen every time so that everyone is accommodated.

When students come to train, it is a full time course ie if they are not flying then they are generally studying for exams at the school. The schedule will always move around.

3. Just this last week we had two students complete in 3 weeks 2 days.

4. As for not liking the Management.....well I am sure that there are some that don't like me.....but I believe there are some that do.......especially the two that are desperate to get me on a tennis court this weekend! I however have a job to do and the timing of your visit may very well be when the two best friends of some of the Instructors moved on.

The fact of the matter is that although I would love to be adored by all, I fear I must realize that I cannot be; when someone is not doing their job then I will address it with them. The reason that the Instructors do a great job is in part due to Management overseeing them as in any Company throughout the World. When students are not scheduled far enough in advance, I will be the one chasing them to schedule. Just remember there is a behind the scenes that many will never know about!

Currently we have a great team that are working very well......our newest recruits Anders, Joachim, John, Patrick and Dave are working out really well and we have had a great deal of compliments because of them. Sery is now our Assistant Chief and doing a fine job, and finally Anand (who nevers seems to take his day off) and Jacob, although it looks like Jacob may be moving into something that is somewhat louder that the lawn mower of a C152!

On a final note, the admissions email address has been stopped due to the trying the rifle through the amazingly interesting spam that would take more than an hours a day to sort though. If you want an immediate answer then just email myslef at the address mentioned in my past posts. We are now using "fly" as the general email address.

Some say I am stupid to respond to these posts, but I have to say that as I am the one that most probably sold you the Arc II and all the unnecessary equipment, I know the questions I ask. I also know after being a flight Instructor and running a flight school for ten years what equipment you need; therefore I know that the equipment I sell to students is needed. Yes you need a kneeboard (the only difference with the IFR and VFR is some extra info on the metal board part), yes you need a flight computer, an operating handbook, a checklist, a chart, nav logs, a headset, a maneuvers book and the "piece de la Resistance"....a ppl confuser!

Well, I think that is my longest posting to date!

[Charlie Zulu]

Okay I know I've been slated for being too pro NAC and it is true that I haven't had any bad experiences with them, except of course their email system...

However the same is also true of other schools such as Air Desert Pacific who I would do business with again without any hesitation whatsoever.

ChocksAway will find that once he/she arrives at ADP the experience will be just as good. I personally would recommend California and especially ADP for hour building to anyone. The weather is good, maybe not the best vis in the SoCal area but the mountain ranges, pacific coast, desert, grand canyon all within a few hours of flight time...

-----
Just a quick note on Transatlantic Flights:

If anyone who is travelling over to Florida during July / August time is having a hard time finding flights for less than £700 return per person then have a look at Virgin Atlantic flights from Heathrow to Miami.

I checked Thomas Cook yesterday afternoon on the off chance and found the 16th July outbound and 6th August inbound for £443 per person... booked it there and then for a friend and I.

All of the others, including indirect, were around the £700 to £750 mark still. So I expect Virgin Atlantic are having a bit of a deal for a few days...

[-IBLB-]

Many students had a good 30 mins bike ride every morning and evening.
what were they doing? riding via Marco Island?

I don't believe it's this bad up there.
Almost sounds to me like someone from the competion or something, the way it was written.

Let's not forget that there are alot more students who've had a great time there.



-IBLB-

[spaceman1000]

buy a motobike instead!!!

if an approved school is so bad, and you think you are riped off, call the CAA. the CAA can shut down the school after investigation (max 20 students per class,....)

YOu can even call mastercard, visa,...and talk about your problem.

this is what I have seen in some US schools. students going to Oklahoma(FAA center) to talk about their school.

I do not know naples, I do not do any comments on this school.
why dont you go there instead(before buying), talk to the managment and students and you will make your mind!

[CAT3C AUTOLAND]

Naples Student,

What a load of rubbish, that is not an accurate representation of NAC!

Ninety Nines, Sery, assistant chief?:eek: God when I was there the first time I remember him as a student doing his professional training, he couldnt even throw a football straight in the pool :D. Only joking, I am sure he is doing a fine job!

All the best.

[Sensible]

ChocksAwayUK, I've been to Air Desert Pacific on more than one occasion. You should have tried Universal at El-Monte, its even better;) NAC is still a first rate school for JAA training and that is a fact! ADP and Universal are both great for hour building but they are more than a bit challenged in the JAA training department.

Anyway, I thought the term "numbnuts" was preferable to a more accurate description!:}

This is more like the truth than all of the hysterical negative nonesense:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=176061

[ChocksAwayUK]

Fair dos.. and you're right, those places aren't kitted out for JAA stuff. Just flew into El monte about an hour ago as it happens. Maybe i'll go and visit Universal once i've done a few more hours from ADP. :ok:

[Kingron]

Ninety Nine sold me a fair bit of stuff. I have used it all. I was also recommended not to buy items that I would not need and funnily enough havent. (yet).

I bought my headset there for less than at the shop across the road and for MUCH Less than in RIP OFF Britian.

I bought a load of stuff before I left from Transair - ouch.

And yes - I was asked to top up my account today. I owed Several Hundred Dollars. This is a business not a bank or a chariety. You have to keep your account in credit. If you cannot afford this training... don't take it.

NAC is a business - they need to make money on everything they do. No different to any other flight school.

And Finally - I realised the starting post was right. It does take 30 minutes to get from the Hotel to the air centre (when you stop for lunch on the way).

Florida is wonderful. Flight training and a tan what more can you want!

[daniel78]

I don´t know who "moderates" these sites,but a friend of mine was recently banned from this site for some namecalling(?).
He uses his real name.

I would like to know who decides who get´s to stay and who get´s to leave?

The reason I ask is because of this "sensible" person,
he does nothing else but put people down with his "superior"
attitude and namecalling,nothing constructive in his post´s at all.

So moderators,if you ban one person for it,why not ban them all?

If it is a complaint you want,here is one

After all, he did call me a Numbnut,"more preferable to a more accurate description" in his own words

Daniel

[Sensible]

Here in the Uk we have an expression which goes " If the cap fits, wear it!" OK!:ok: :}:} :}

Edit: ChocksAwayUK, try the trip West from Brackett past the Dodger stadium, City Hall and the "Hollywood" sign through to Santa Monica, turning South East down through the VFR corridor directly over LAX arriving over the Queen Mary. Very interesting!

[daniel78]

:)

nuff said?
moderator,sir:{

[scroggs]

Play nice, children, or leave.... :rolleyes: :hmm:

[daniel78]

so I take it sensible will not be severally punished?
:*
lookin right back at ya

[Sensible]

daniel78, quote from an earlier post of yoursaltough I have the european-canadian version of a mullet,hockeyhair, I do not have the cap to support it. :} :} :} :} :} :} :}
Here is the full posting :
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=162130:} :} :}

[daniel78]

Ahhhhhhhhaaa.......
thanks sensible for reminding me to get a haircut

You see,
it is much nicer to be constructive and helping people out rather than pushing them around, don´t you think?

Keep it up

[NaplesStudent]

Hi,

Thanks for all your comments. I understand everyone's view. I thought it was worth posting as I was there so recently.

I am now at a UK school and have seen how proper flight training should be conducted. I assure all readers that Naples Air Centre fails in every respect to meet the standards set in the UK. Leaving there with the piece of paper in your hand may meet the admin requirements of the CAA but it will certainly all have to be undone later in your training.

You may notice in my first post one of the points has been edited. I understand why and respect the wishes of pprune. This was the most worrying part of NAC by far. I cannot mention it now of course, however, I suggest if you know anyone who has been to NAC recently you try and find out a little more about an incident that took place.

Regards,

NS

[Farrell]

I have been unbanned from the training forum! I am still using my real name. What I really don't understand is why you guys decided to pick on me for this?

Anyway....all water under the bridge now.

Sigh!

[too_sleepy]

Hi NaplesStudent
So how many toilets does your British school have? Did you inlude your toliet requirements in your criteria to choose your new school? I think not, somethings just don't really matter when compared to safety records, aircraft availability or quality of instructors.
If you had kept your original post to reasonable criticisms I'm sure you would have been taken more seriously.

How do you manage on a long cross country in a C152, ain't no toilets in them.

T

[Farrell]

"How do you manage on a long cross country in a C152, ain't no toilets in them"


They have a little window that you can open! You can get a bit of sprayback sometimes if the wind is wrong and you need to get permission from the Tower......

"Tower, this is Cessna 1234, I'd like to extend my middle leg!!" :}

[too_sleepy]

You need to be careful about sunburn in Florida. That large mass could also effect the stability of a C152.

[Sensible]

So NaplesStudent, I note from your last post:I am now at a UK school I strongly suspect that you didn't get a PPL at NAC and are choosing to blame the school instead of yourself for that. The fact is that flying isn't for everybody and the students who "fail to cut the mustard" are the ones who blame the standard of training rather than themselves for their failure. Tell me I am wrong! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the standards of training at NAC, on the other hand, the standard of some of the students is far from perfect. Are you one of those less able students? Each and all of us have strengths and weaknesses and the trick is to recognise and utilise personal strengths-and at the same time recognise and accept our own weaknesses rather than blame others for the consequences of them!

Good luck!

[Papa Owfa]

too_sleepy........

how did you know i have a large mass?

[JABI]

I promised myself I would stay away from this one, however;

To prevent it from fading into obscurity.....
I pretty much second all of "Naples Student" opinions, that is really the way it was a couple of years ago, somewhat surprised they still run it the same way.
It's a shame a thread like this one always turns into name calling by the same people, the usual suspects who always seem to be waiting in the shadows to pummel everybody with a negative view of their "wonderfull favorite flight school".
Let's not forget some people are treated different from others, just depends on who is who in their eyes.
Face it, there are better places to go.
Just unfortunate that for most students this is their first school and therefore really have no clue on how they are being bent over.
If Naples Student and WX man and SR 20 can come with any more substantiated real info I'm sure that will be appreciated by a lot of silent wannabee's.

[WX Man]

Basically, I expect to be treated like a customer. Not a piece of sh*t on "Captain" Richard Gentil's shoe. OK?!

[SAS23]

ahhhh but did you act the part?;)

[cfimei]

Sorry, but the previous comment from SENSIBLE makes me angry. It illustrates a level of intellectual snobbery that still pervades JAR training and it's high time we cut out the class crap and stop looking down our noses at others. It's not a question of being unable to "cut the mustard" SENSIBLE old chap, but rather the quality of instruction which CAN and DOES produce good pilots. The challenge for instructors is to be creative in how they impart knowledge for the different abilities of their students. A good instructor will use different methods for different students but too many people become instructors without that innate ability to REALLY teach.

[Sensible]

cfimei,It illustrates a level of intellectual snobbery Sorry mate, I didn't get taught what those sort of fancy words mean on the council estate that I was brought up on. Please explain!

[NaplesStudent]

Hi All,

I'm glad. As this post has been on for a few weeks now, the initial posts from the few regular ppruners who always jump on anyone who say anything bad about NAC have been compensated by other posters who had similar experiences to myself.

I also thank the guys who have sent me supportive PMs.

I would love to explain my own details regarding my training at NAC. However, if I did, then the NAC management would be able to work out who I was. I know what happens to people who upset Richard (NAC owner) and I don't wish to ruin any more of my training or get involved in anything unpleasent.

I'm also glad Nikki responded with a post. I'm afraid that all my points are completely true and you will discover this when you get over to the other side of the Atlantic. Bit late then I'm afraid... The instuctors are all young with few hours and no nothing of JAA. Thay are all FAA and have no idea what JAA is.

I strongly say again that trying to do fast and poor training at Naples Air Centre leads to problems later on. I am not alone when I say this. It will not save you money in the long run and cause a lot of stress. You might as well start off with a solid foundation in your training at a UK flight school and move on from there confident in your skills.

NaplesStudent

[carrieanderson]

As a private pilot that has been to another american school for my PPL, I am now trying to make up my mind about where to continue to next. However, the majority of your comments, although some have been enlightening, have made my decision more complicated than ever. For now I have no idea who is being truthful or not. Not very helpful lads.
I don't wish to use another name as a guise or want to call names, I would just like some honest opinions from what I thought was a network to offer advice to fellow pilots. If anyone has any unbiased experiences of schools in USA for JAA prof courses then I would be most interested in hearing them.
Otherwise, I guess my research will have to continue elsewhere...
carrie

[ChocksAwayUK]

Keen readers of prune may be aware of the probs i had with NAC. I put these down to an inefficient admin department and despite the trouble, time and money that this cost me i accepted this and bore no bad feelings against the school as a whole as a result of my experience.

To add insult to injury I've since received a private message from a member of NAC staff accusing me of making up my claims (i can assure you everything i said was true) and claiming that they did everything they could for me (rubbish). This came from someone who previously seemed to have a conscience compared to the dodgy admin people i'd previously encountered. Following the problems NAC had caused me and my balanced and understanding reaction this really took the biiscuit... really pretty miffed, i'd take your business elsewhere.

[Keygrip]

Sorry, Adrain - deleted your duplicate post - as i would with any other duplicate.

Whilst parts of ity had relevance to the thread - the majority didn't.

Don't take it as an attack - I would have done the same with any duplicate.

[OBA]

Keygrip,


“Sorry, Adrain - deleted your duplicate post - as i would with any other duplicate”.

Not true, PPRuNe is riddled with duplicate posts.

”Whilst parts of it had relevance to the thread - the majority didn't”.

The point of the post was in the most part relevant, especially the fact that the same individuals who give their unmitigated support for Naples are the same one who attempt to discredit Ormond Beach Aviation.

”Don't take it as an attack - I would have done the same with any duplicate”.

I don’t, it is just another demonstration of the lack of “balanced reporting” that PPRuNe operates as a matter of policy.

For those of you interested in some “facts” rather than “fantasy” go to;

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=135854&perpage=15&highlight=Ormond&pagenumber=8

and read the very relevant post that has been deleted form this thread by the “moderator”.

Regards,

Adrian Thompson
President
Ormond Beach Aviation, Inc.

P.S. Keygrip, did you get a call from Danny, Nikki or Richard and follow your orders?

<<edit: OK - let me rephrase. The duplicate was deleted in the same way that any duplicate ON THE FORUMS THAT I HAVE ACCESS TO would be deleted. The only other 'line' I can take with dupliactes is to 'lock' a thread - but that was not an option in this case as it would lock the entire thread.

I was also under the impression that you knew who I am - in which case your "P.S." is highly insulting, and puts you back into the same litter box as the people that you elude to in your message. I always held you in higher regard than that (well, not always - you've had your moments - but generally).

My (admittedly subjective) view is that a lot of the points made in your cut/paste message are not relevant to this thread. For those that are (no school can please 100% etc, same voices for and against etc) - feel free to write them in that context and they won't get touched (at least - by me). >>

[[u]]

First, I've never been to FL to get my PPL so have no actual experience with either OBA nor Naples.

That said, as an outside observer I can only say that on PPPrune there seems to be a big bias against OBA. At first I took it for granted that OBA were 'sub-standard' and Naples was the way to go if you opted for a 3 week USA JAA PPL course.

Friends went to FL do do their PPL, some were unhappy with Naples, too crowded and no change to get your PPL in 3 weeks as advertised, others went to OFT, they were quite happy with the way OFT was running things.

To my surprise I recently saw some people who claimed to be quite happy with the services they received at OBA, there are also theads on UKGA.com (http://www.ukga.com/forum/viewthread.cfm?forumThreadId=2550#firstnew) and Flyer (http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14160) which aren't all that negative over OBA.

To conclude it seems that the position for best and worst PPL school in FL are open again ....

:)

[2Donkeys]

UKGA.com and Flyer which aren't all that negative over OBA.

I can't speak for UKGA.COM, but as an ADMIN on the FLYER site, we have no particular bias for or against any school.

I have had good personal experiences of Naples, but I can also see where some (although not all) of the complaints might be coming from. This said, you need to stop and think a bit about the client base, and I apologise in advance if this appears to insult the "average" contributor to this particular part of Pprune.

Without doubt, the clientele that Naples sees, is broadly similar to those seen by OBA. Many are scraping the bottom of the wallet to afford their training/accommodation/travel. Many are not the cream of the academic crop. Some are beset by language difficulties. Some think that they can fit a holiday in at the same time as their PPL. Some think that lesson start times are approximate. Some think that aircraft should never break unexpectedly. Most are very young and exceptionally inexperienced in all matters aviation. Some are betting their overdraft on the uncertainties of a career in aviation.

The list goes on. It is not a formula that guarantees 100% happy punters for any school.

The approach adopted on the FLYER boards, is, I suspect similar to the one adopted here. If somebody claims personal, direct knowledge of a school, we allow them to post their views. If they are reporting hearsay, then we bin them. Both Naples and OBA have at times attracted posters attempting to contribute messages of attack and/or support under multiple usernames, from the same IP addresses. We draw our own conclusions from that. Where a post contains obviously actionable claims, we bin those too.

I expect the Pprune experience and response is similar.


2D

[daniel78]

2Donkeys,
when you feel you have to apologise in advance for writing a post, I think the best bet is, don´t write it!

Having been to Naples myself, I don´t buy your explanation one bit. I think it´s insulting (apology accepted) and just another poor excuse for something very simple,
bad service feed´s bad publicity, period

Now I may talk slow but that doesn´t mean I´m stupid and my maturity level equates to the age of 15 and a half, (that´s the way I like it thank you very much) but that does not have anything to do with me not liking them. I still know bad service when I see it, and until I get a refund and a written apology I will keep writing about it.

ChocksAwayUK,last time I checked, conscience wasn´t in the NAC dictionary

I´m out

[2Donkeys]

Thanks for the tip daniel78, if only I had your wisdom. :cool:

[scroggs]

2D as you surmise, the Pprune policy is similar to Flyer's. We are reasonably happy to let people express strong feelings about their experiences, good or bad, but where there is any doubt that what they are talking about is actually someone else's experience, or something they've heard in conversation, then we draw the line. Where the experience quoted is particularly controversial we then ask the poster to confirm their genuine identity and contact details - which we will not reveal to any third party without legal enforcement. If the poster is unwilling to do that, the post is withdrawn. If the poster persists in controversy without substantiation, they may find themselves unable to participate further.

Of course, we would prefer it if these arguments could be conducted in a reasonably polite and adult manner. Unfortunately, that is beyond the ability of some contributors. :rolleyes: However, most readers understand that a contributor's credibility to the overall readership is directly related to the style, reason and clarity of their contributions.

Scroggs

[daniel78]

:*
I assume you are talking about me again...........
Well mate, my motto is,
if you can´t laugh about it, what can you do?

I´m out:8